A Story-lover's Appeal to the Development Team

[ZionHalcyon]

Who I am

 

I am someone who before this game was launched, was sold on the story. I have always been a fan of story, and what made the precursor to this game, Knights of the Old Republic, special to myself and a lot of fans is that it had one of the most incredible stories your first play through that the gaming industry saw in a long time, and still holds up to this day.

 

When SWTOR was being advertised, what sold me and also worried me was “infinite story”. Can SWTOR continue the great story telling that helped spawn it? And with the promise of “infinite story”, can a story really hold up if you keep dragging it out forever?

 

The Class stories in SWTOR lived up to the original, if poorly paced through the second half of act 1 and act 2 – something the original development team acknowledged.

 

So it came with great disappointment that the original brain trust behind the story was replaced, and the new team and new producer has made it clear that, despite the most often thing asked and requested is more class stories (both in forums and at cantina events), that going forward, it will be faction stories only. Adding to that disappointment was the pure blandness Makeb ended up being and the lack of class story meaning anything past level 50.

 

And so I’ve waited. And for someone who enjoyed the questing mechanic, I haven’t seen it used other than Oricon since Makeb, and not used to great effect since the game’s original release. In other words, it’s been a long damn time (more than a year, maybe closer to 2?) since it’s felt like there’s been a quest worth a damn to my characters and their motivations from their class story roots.

 

I also have been disturbed by how flashpoints as of late seem to be the development’s answer to “story”. While I enjoy a good flashpoint, and enjoyed the Ilum/Flashpoints tie in, that wasn’t the experience I had, that I was conditioned to have, from levels 1-50. Flashpoint storylines, as Operation Storylines, are a bonus to me, but NOT a replacement for quest based story telling. I never minded if they were interwoven into the overall plot, but without quest-based storytelling for so long, they feel like a replacement for what I was brought up on with this game.

 

 

What I want

 

To be straight to the point –

 

Development to come up with a cohesive storyline going forward that draws plots and inspiration from all class stories.

 

• Stories should feel like a natural evolution of the class stories and should above all things, “make sense” given your character’s ambitions, motivations, and interests. Just name-dropping and brief mentions to your class stories will not cut it.
  

 

The next planet expansion after the expected one in December, and going forward, should have impact and ramifications for the classes involved.

 

• Optionals for specific classes would be appreciated, and in a novel idea, completion or not completing these optionals could lead to different cutscenes for your character, making the story more organic.
  

 

Small batches of Story-based Questing content released in 2 month intervals

 

• Idea is NOT a huge release, but a very brief quest-lines (3-5 quests), faction-based, designed to appeal to those who still long for the Class story experience
  
• Use these small quests as ways to lead out of the last major planet expansion, and into the next major one in the coming year.
  
• These stories can also be used to tie in flashpoints and upcoming planned daily areas, and weave them into the overall story.
  

 

Please note – I understand development and scheduling, and if these things weren’t already considered, I know they won’t be in the December release – there just isn’t enough time.

 

However, I ask that these ideas be considered and implemented for the next expansion after, since that should just be in the planning stages, and adjustments should make the impact minimal. While I know this might seem like a bit now, if a rhythm could be established, then the suggestions should come out smoothly once the first ideas hit the usual release cadence.

 

I don’t think these suggestions are unfair, impossible, or too costly. I think with the right amount of planning, these are entirely accomplishable, and would go a long way to sate story-based questers.

 

I acknowledge that these ideas do not reflect what everyone wants, and know there will be some people who will instinctively shoot this down because they fear these ideas will mean their favorite part of the game won’t get as much attention, even if the reality is that wouldn’t be the case. I also acknowledge there are people out there that feel that Flashpoint and Operations are enough story for them.

 

 

However, given the overwhelming desire for class story, and people like me who have long suffered from a lack of desired content in an otherwise amazing game, I think these suggestions are more than fair.

 

Thank you to anyone who took time to read this.

[RandomXChance]

Who I am

..............

 

Thank you to anyone who took time to read this.

 

Removed all the stuff we have debated 1,000 times already.

 

I actually understand and sympathize with how you feel. What you came to the game for and what you enjoy the most is not being continued.

 

Redundant, but nicely written post!

[Korusus]

I agree with everything you said. I always have and I always will want more story content to the point that I have several alts parked at 55 in the anticipation of more class story to come. I love the stories in this game so much that I have rolled multiple alts of the same classes just to experience the same stories multiple times. I have been through the leveling process in this game at least 10 times. No other MMO has come close to sating this niche in my opinion.

 

I don't care how unrealistic an expectation it is. I don't care if EA will never fund it. I don't care. I want class story.

 

I will say that I actually enjoyed Makeb's storyline to some degree and would prefer that if nothing else. But they have to pick up the tempo if that's the case, because it will have been nearly 2 years since Makeb for the next "expansion."

 

I don't even care about the voice acting, if they want to make it so that everything 55+ is silent protagonist I would still want more story content.

 

I also agree OP that flashpoints and operations are not a good way to deliver these aspects. Being a player who isn't interested in a gear grind I feel I have missed out on the last 2 years of what little story there has been with the Dread Lords, capital planet invasions etc. because it's being delivered via vehicles I'm not interested in and wasn't the promise of the original game's premise and that has caused me to basically stay unsubbed for most of the last 2 years.

 

All we can do is continue to have our voices heard, whether anything ever comes of it or not. F2P saved this game, and the developers needed to take time to improve PvP, sandbox features, and raids...but now the time has come to switch the focus back to story.

[Reno_Tarshil]

It's a good attempt but I doubt it will do anything.

[theUndead]

I sympathise with you. I think it was a well put together post and hopefully it gets acknowledged..

[ZionHalcyon]

It's a good attempt but I doubt it will do anything.

 

I do think there is a point to it though.

 

Both in cantina crawls and in my brief convo one time with Eric, he's mentioned the devs desire to put more class into the faction stories. So I do think it is something on their radar. My concern is actually one of capacity than ability.

 

To date, the only example of story based content we have from the new team is makeb, and that was woefully vanilla, and lacking in anything but an insulting mention with regards to the previous class stories.

 

So my concern, as they try to implement class into the faction stories, that, quite frankly, they just aren't creative enough to understand how to pull it off well. I could be wrong, since they have since re-hired Alexander Freed who made the excellent agent storyline.

 

But I think a tighter integration with the class stories is needed, and more to the point, even taking ideas from the class stories to expand upon in future faction-based storylines.

 

Will it accomplish anything? who knows? I do know if you like what I've typed, support it in the thread and hopefully the dev team will catch notice.

[ZionHalcyon]

All we can do is continue to have our voices heard, whether anything ever comes of it or not. F2P saved this game, and the developers needed to take time to improve PvP, sandbox features, and raids...but now the time has come to switch the focus back to story.

 

Totally agreed on this point.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I do think there is a point to it though.

 

Both in cantina crawls and in my brief convo one time with Eric, he's mentioned the devs desire to put more class into the faction stories. So I do think it is something on their radar. My concern is actually one of capacity than ability.

 

To date, the only example of story based content we have from the new team is makeb, and that was woefully vanilla, and lacking in anything but an insulting mention with regards to the previous class stories.

 

So my concern, as they try to implement class into the faction stories, that, quite frankly, they just aren't creative enough to understand how to pull it off well. I could be wrong, since they have since re-hired Alexander Freed who made the excellent agent storyline.

 

But I think a tighter integration with the class stories is needed, and more to the point, even taking ideas from the class stories to expand upon in future faction-based storylines.

 

Will it accomplish anything? who knows? I do know if you like what I've typed, support it in the thread and hopefully the dev team will catch notice.

 

No, don't get me wrong. I'm all for more class story content, but it just seems like their is nothing more that can be said that hasn't been said.

[ZionHalcyon]

No, don't get me wrong. I'm all for more class story content, but it just seems like their is nothing more that can be said that hasn't been said.

 

Agreed, but I think as much as it can numb the senses of some people, it is something that does oft bear repeating, because to not continue to bring it up might be mistaken for a lack of interest.

[DarthDymond]

Keep fighting the good fight. I think you've got good suggestions here, and even if they don't take this route specifically I think it is a good thing to let EA/BW hear that continuing some form of class content is something that some players still want and care a lot about.

[Lunafox]

Like the OP, and oodles of others, I've been here since before launch, and have been relatively steadfast in my sub (I had 2 spells where I was unsubbed for about 4 months) but I still checked stuff each day on the forum, and logged in about once a week. I agree with pretty much everything you've written there.

 

I started the petition asking for more class and companion story extensions. It's had 22,381 views, and almost 500 replies. It's the most successful post I ever did, and I'm glad, because I was really sincere about wanting more individual class and companion story extensions. Still do. The class stories make this game great. Lack of them makes me want to leave. Right now, only reason I'm back is because I want my house, and I still hope the powers that be will give us our new class chapters.

 

I have 14 level 55's, 4 50's and several other levels because I love the stories and have done them all several times. I love story...

 

I've been beating this drum (or dead horse) so much, I have no feeling in my hands anymore.

 

So...

 

/signed, of course, because I've been dubbed 'The Story Lady'

Edited May 7, 2014 by Lunafox

[Sarfux]

Zion. The next expansion is supposed to be more of a "makeb type" with more story involved in it. The development team has just said, right NOW their focus isn't class story, it's other things but perhaps in the future that will change and I'm sure it will. Just not now. It will come. Just like I said to be patient on the things that didn't even seem to be coming at all some time ago. Like the space pvp, guild ships, player housing, animal mounts, etc... Now look at what we are getting. Just remember, be patient!

[trancejeremy]

I think a lot of people agree (including me), but at the same time, the game just wasn't as big a hit as they thought it would be.

 

Honestly, I think it was a poor decision making a MMORPG so story focused in the first place. Especially when I, a notoriously slow leveler (I've played LOTRO for 6 years and my highest character is 81 out of 95 levels) can finish two class stories in a month and a half. I can see people who burn through games a lot faster than me doing it in a couple of weeks.

 

Doing 8 different class stories, I don't see how that could ever be cost effective given how relatively few people play it.

[TravelersWay]

All we can do is continue to have our voices heard, whether anything ever comes of it or not. F2P saved this game, and the developers needed to take time to improve PvP, sandbox features, and raids...but now the time has come to switch the focus back to story.

 

I would have to agree with that as well. Regardless of what the naysayers say in regards to story. Good story and Good Class Story are two separate things and there is no reason why we can't at least make our desires known. After all, that's what the RPers have done, that's what the PvPers have done, that's what the Raiders have done. I like a good story. I would like a good class story even more. It's what I still play and subscribe to this game for with two accounts, and why my daughter has a Premium account. Is the ROI on class stories as significant as it is with vanilla faction stories. No, but any good businessman will tell you that ROI isn't the be all and end all of business. Sometimes when you worry less about that, the returns end up being much greater in the long run.

[ZionHalcyon]

I think a lot of people agree (including me), but at the same time, the game just wasn't as big a hit as they thought it would be.

 

Honestly, I think it was a poor decision making a MMORPG so story focused in the first place. Especially when I, a notoriously slow leveler (I've played LOTRO for 6 years and my highest character is 81 out of 95 levels) can finish two class stories in a month and a half. I can see people who burn through games a lot faster than me doing it in a couple of weeks.

 

Doing 8 different class stories, I don't see how that could ever be cost effective given how relatively few people play it.

 

Did you read what I said?

 

I wasn't asking for 8 different class stories - that ship has sailed.

 

Go re-read what I said. What I suggested is entirely feasible. What it depends on is just how creative at story-telling the dev team is now and how committed they are at bringing that to us, not just in a mega-expansion, but also in the space in between those planetary expansions and cap level raises.

[ZionHalcyon]

I would have to agree with that as well. Regardless of what the naysayers say in regards to story. Good story and Good Class Story are two separate things and there is no reason why we can't at least make our desires known. After all, that's what the RPers have done, that's what the PvPers have done, that's what the Raiders have done. I like a good story. I would like a good class story even more. It's what I still play and subscribe to this game for with two accounts, and why my daughter has a Premium account. Is the ROI on class stories as significant as it is with vanilla faction stories. No, but any good businessman will tell you that ROI isn't the be all and end all of business. Sometimes when you worry less about that, the returns end up being much greater in the long run.

 

I really hope that they can really get story right.

[Solo-Jo]

I feel pretty much the same way OP. When I finish all my character's class stories then I may not be around, because I have no interest in Flashpoints or group only content. Now I am not asking for more single class stories, even though that would be nice, but i would like more story content that I can enjoy the same way I leveled to 55 all on my own with no one getting on my nerves or in the way of my immersion.

[Evil_Dave]

Guys, the developers are running on overdrive just trying to keep up the pace to continue two faction-based storylines alongside all the other facets of the game. Imagine how much effort it would take to continue eight more class stories on top of all that. The resources just aren't there, money- and personnel-wise. EA controls SWTOR's purse strings, and they almost certainly aren't going to put any more money into it, given its already-checkered history.

 

I hate it too, but class stories are dead. We all just have to accept it.

[Khevar]

I hate it too, but class stories are dead. We all just have to accept it.

Why look at this as an all-or-nothing approach?

 

When the next Makeb-sized planet quest comes out, why not have a few optional side quests that are only available to specific classes? Why not alter some of the conversations (beyond the first conversation) so that they fit in with the specific class?

 

Done well, it would really add more flavor to the faction-based storylines, and reward the player for seeing the story from the viewpoint of their different alts.

[Eclesis]

Why look at this as an all-or-nothing approach?

 

When the next Makeb-sized planet quest comes out, why not have a few optional side quests that are only available to specific classes? Why not alter some of the conversations (beyond the first conversation) so that they fit in with the specific class?

 

Done well, it would really add more flavor to the faction-based storylines, and reward the player for seeing the story from the viewpoint of their different alts.

 

That seems to be a good summary of the points in the OP - if we're not going to have split stories per class, it'd be nice if the main story can be personalized a bit to the PC's class and history. There's some of that in Makeb in the dialogue, but it'd be nice to see this expanded into some quest mechanics and perhaps side missions. For example, my IA has access to a certain information database. If the story has a "mysterious conspiracy" going on I should be able to try consulting it and seeing if something comes up. A SI/SW might be able to summon additional reinforcements to a battle due to their rank, if you have companions with specific fields of expertise maybe they can contribute something unique, etc. You'd still be doing the same thing, more or less, but it would feel more responsive.

[Infernixx]

I had in mind to make a huge post detailing why story hasn't been addressed directly, but it basically came down to this:

 

There were a lot of issues that needed addressing and a lot of half-finished projects that needed finishing before they could address the story content.

 

I sincerely believe that we're coming to the close of Chapter 1 of TOR and Chapter 2 will kick off with the new level-increasing expansion.

[RandomXChance]

Why look at this as an all-or-nothing approach?

 

When the next Makeb-sized planet quest comes out, why not have a few optional side quests that are only available to specific classes? Why not alter some of the conversations (beyond the first conversation) so that they fit in with the specific class?

 

Done well, it would really add more flavor to the faction-based storylines, and reward the player for seeing the story from the viewpoint of their different alts.

 

It would be a nice touch, but I feel the first part is very unlikely to happen. That is almost the same as class story lines and the powers that be seem to be against spending the resources to do that. The second part would seem to be a very reasonable thing to put in and would be a decent middle ground and would give the story aficionados some degree of satisfaction.

[arunav]

Guys, the developers are running on overdrive just trying to keep up the pace to continue two faction-based storylines alongside all the other facets of the game. Imagine how much effort it would take to continue eight more class stories on top of all that. The resources just aren't there, money- and personnel-wise. EA controls SWTOR's purse strings, and they almost certainly aren't going to put any more money into it, given its already-checkered history.

 

I hate it too, but class stories are dead. We all just have to accept it.

 

Not only this, but I think folks forget how much of an effect the layoffs in 2012 had on the capacity for the development team to introduce what the OP is asking for.

 

Even if they had the funding from EA (which I don't believe they do), it's not like BW can simply hire a random person with roughly the same skill-set and replace who they let go, especially those that had expertise with how SWTOR's engine works. I believe most of the original writers are also gone. Would you drop everything you're doing, including a new job, and move back to work on a game that let you go?

 

I still play the game because I like what BW made for lvl 1-50 and some of the endgame stuff, and, like KOTOR, it has a lot of replay value. Unfortunately, amongst MMO players, we don't seem to have the same interests in a genre like this.

 

In EA's eyes, and anyone being reasonably objective, BW's story did not work for retaining a very large MMO playerbase, one that could have sustained the type of revenue necessary for their story-driven plan. The decision to all but abandon it was made long ago, in the spring/summer of 2012. You're not likely going to see the in-depth questing and story found in 1-50 ever again.

 

There will be updates to questing and story no doubt, but it will be as you described Makeb at best, hollow in comparison to what preceded it.

 

It's not on EA or BW, most MMO players who tried the game simply didn't care enough about story. I can't understand why, because other MMOs are almost all really bad in this respect. The idea that there was a market for pulling away players from those other games failed.

Edited May 7, 2014 by arunav