New Tactical Crew option: Transponder Jammer hides my nameplate (and others' from me)

[Nemarus]

In another thread (about being focused), someone commented this:

 

As you play the game you start to create your own rivalries with people who then spam the /ops chat with "TARGET so and so". It definitely makes your enjoyment of THAT MATCH pretty underwhelming (again, post 2.7 as before I could take out an entire team w/o dying. Now, every Type 2 battlescout has a 98% change to finish me off).

 

I think if they removed nameplates from opposition, it would help reduce being focused by name and instead be focused by ships and general strategies

 

I definitely do think that in GSF--perhaps even more than ground PvP--skill and notoriety are often "rewarded" by being focused/hunted suppressed, which reduces fun substantially.

 

The suggestion of removing all nameplates might be a little extreme, and it might make aces' lives too easy. However, I do think there is some potential for incorporating this issue into the game mechanic itself.

 

What if certain crew passives or components offered a "Transponder Jammer" passive that made it so nameplate was hidden?

 

My first thought was that "Transponder Jammer" would make a nifty fourth Sensor Component option, but that would cut out a lot of ships unfairly.

 

But what if it was a Tactical Crew passive? Everyone has access to those, and they are all themed around sensors already.

 

And maybe if you use it, it not only hides your nameplate from others, but it also hides everyone else's nameplate from you. So you make it harder for others to focus you, but you also make it harder for you to focus others.

 

It's an off-the-cuff idea, so I'm sure there's a lot of discussion and consideration that would need to happen, but I think it's an interesting notion to explore.

[Fractalsponge]

I'd pay cc for this.

[Armonddd]

My first thought was that "Transponder Jammer" would make a nifty fourth Sensor Component option, but that would cut out a lot of ships unfairly.

 

Most ships have a sensor component. Only the T2 scout and T1/T2 strikes do not. (I was surprised too.)

 

I'm not sure I like it. It removes team coordination as an option. I don't personally like that, but I'm not sure it's a strong argument in a game without matchmaking.

[QuinMantha]

I agree. It turns GSF into...almost a solo mission.

 

While notoriety does come with consequences, nobody puts a gun to our heads to make us fly our mains so consistently that we become infamous.

[Altheran]

I agree. It turns GSF into...almost a solo mission.

 

Because that's not what the game/UI already does when you're not in a premade ?

 

While notoriety does come with consequences, nobody puts a gun to our heads to make us fly our mains so consistently that we become infamous.

And if you're a good pilot, you will undoubtfully become infamous very quick, even on an alt.

So we may not have a gun to our heads to make us fly our mains, but sorry to stetch things a bit, but we almost have one to make us constantly switch alts... which is not much better.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Altheran

[Armonddd]

Because that's not what the game/UI already does when you're not in a premade ?

 

When I'm queueing solo, I still get that sense of community by knowing who's fighting whom.

 

And if you're a good pilot, you will undoubtfully become infamous very quick, even on an alt.

So we may not have a gun to our heads to make us fly our mains, but sorry to stetch things a bit, but we almost have one to make us constantly switch alts... which is not much better.

 

So... which is it? Either flying on an alt is advantageous, or it makes little difference.

 

There's just too many potential problems with this idea. There's a reason no game (that I know of) has ever done something like this, and for once it's not because everyone's copying everyone else's mechanics.

[Sidenti]

"What's in a name? That which we call Rhint by any other name would smell as slagged..."

 

I don't support the idea. I just felt like bastardizing some Shakespeare.

[Altheran]

When I'm queueing solo, I still get that sense of community by knowing who's fighting whom.

 

But do you get the feeling to play WITH them ? Or do you get the feeling that everyone is doing his own stuff while merely having a common objective ?

Because it's that kind of feeling I'm about.

 

And what is a "sense of community" anyway ? Knowing who you faced ?

You'll still now it. Map screen, kill fly-texts, scoreboard, will all give people's name.

 

IMO, being part of a community is more than just seeing names when I'm doing something. It's doing things together.

If I'm just paired with people, I'm not in any kind of community. We're strangers acting like strangers.

 

So... which is it? Either flying on an alt is advantageous, or it makes little difference.

It's the latter. In a very few amount of matches, you'll be forced to change alt again... and again... and again...

 

There's just too many potential problems with this idea. There's a reason no game (that I know of) has ever done something like this, and for once it's not because everyone's copying everyone else's mechanics.

Name it, please.

Everyone may be doing things the same way for a reason, but it may also be no reason.

 

Sorry, I hate to be the annoying guy with a trollish attitude, but I hate even more this kind of statements : IRL, each time I hear something in the lines of "You can't because nodoby does", it tends to piss me off pretty badly... It stinks of "act how you're told to" and "don't think by yourself".

Edited April 24, 2014 by Altheran

[Armonddd]

But do you get the feeling to play WITH them ?

 

Against, generally.

 

It's tons of fun knowing who I'm trying to outplay as I'm trying to outplay them. A race through an asteroid field is a lot more fun when I know that the guy behind me is Itkovian than when I have no clue who it is.

 

It's fun watching Aimbot get swarmed by a mob led by Arvokai and Tolgid, getting in their faces to scare them off, and laughing with them about it afterwards.

 

It's even fun knowing that I didn't know who the guy was; there's a pilot on my server who recently jumped up on my watchlist because I saw the name and the five ships, but didn't give him much credit until he started blowing me up.

 

Rivalries are fun.

 

It's the latter. In a very few amount of matches, you'll be forced to change alt again... and again... and again...

 

I have five GSF characters. I have no more than one GSF character per faction per server.

 

Most veterans I've played with have one GSF character per faction. A very few have two.

 

Only one person that I've ever played with has constantly changed his name to discourage attackers. It wasn't very effective.

 

I agree that it makes little difference -- which is why so few people do it, and why no one is "forced" to make alts.

 

Name it, please.

Everyone may be doing things the same way for a reason, but it may also be no reason.

 

In a sentence, it's detrimental to the competitive aspect of the game.

 

The rivalries above help foster a sense of community. Playing as a team (which generally means voip, but a lot of games have that built in) does the same.

 

People tend to be dumb. If we're not constantly reminded that we're fighting other people, we don't realize it. Removing nameplates, at some level, removes the "player" part of "enemy player". Sometimes that's even possible with nameplates on -- buy me a drink sometime and I'll tell you about the time I kited a town guard halfway across Un'goro Crater.

 

Without that sense of community, sportsmanship plummets. People are only good sports out of a sense of respect for each other, and it's very hard to gain respect for "unidentified fighter".

 

Even beyond that, nameplates relay important tactical information. If I see Rhint in a Quarrel, Rhodogast in a Rampart, and Arvokai in a Flashfire, that's a very different situation than if I saw Rhint in a Flashfire, Rhodogast in a Quarrel, and Arvokai in a Rampart. Three very good pilots in three very powerful ships... with three completely different playstyles per ship.

 

Hell, remove even that -- let's say someone dropped and their spot was backfilled, or maybe I didn't pay attention to the teams at the start, or maybe I'm Just Too Busy to remember who's playing where. If I have a Pike behind me, I could very well forget whether I'm fighting Large or Itkovian. Both are very good Pike pilots, and both play completely differently. I can make a guess as to who it is, and adjust my tactics based on that guess, but if I'm wrong, I'm screwed.

 

And, at that point, I'm not screwed because I made a mistake, but I'm screwed because the game decided to arbitrarily withhold critical information -- which is exactly what this change will feel like, since nameplates have been enabled from the start.

 

Sorry, I hate to be the annoying guy with a trollish attitude, but I hate even more this kind of statements : IRL, each time I hear something in the lines of "You can't because nodoby does", it tends to piss me off pretty badly... It stinks of "act how you're told to" and "don't think by yourself".

 

Nah, it's totally legit. If I'm going to make an argument, I should be responsible for fleshing it out.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Armonddd

[Nemarus]

 

There's just too many potential problems with this idea. There's a reason no game (that I know of) has ever done something like this, and for once it's not because everyone's copying everyone else's mechanics.

 

Not saying I disagree with all of your points, but with regard to this one...

 

There's no game that I know of that allows you to identify an individual from across the map and immediately travel to him, with minimal obstruction.

 

Because of the Communications chain, you can often identify a priority target 30+km away, and because of the openness of the maps, you can immediately turn and fly toward it.

 

Though it's now apparent that that is a huge tactical advantage of Communications range that we've perhaps failed to appreciate.

[Altheran]

Against, generally.

 

It's tons of fun knowing who I'm trying to outplay as I'm trying to outplay them. A race through an asteroid field is a lot more fun when I know that the guy behind me is Itkovian than when I have no clue who it is.

 

It's fun watching Aimbot get swarmed by a mob led by Arvokai and Tolgid, getting in their faces to scare them off, and laughing with them about it afterwards.

 

It's even fun knowing that I didn't know who the guy was; there's a pilot on my server who recently jumped up on my watchlist because I saw the name and the five ships, but didn't give him much credit until he started blowing me up.

 

Rivalries are fun.

I can get it may be disappointing to defend/flee at full power and then realize it was "just a random"... This feeling of wasted effort....

 

But you say it was also fun to see an unknown name being able to actually do something.

Without names, almost all encounters will be like this.

Almost because you can deduct from the ship model that the pilot you're targetting isn't the one you should be aware of... and a quick look at the map wih "M" can tell you what ship the one you're looking for is currently flying.

So... in a way, you're not totally blind to "whom" you're facing.

 

The fun is still there... slightly different but still there.

 

I have five GSF characters. I have no more than one GSF character per faction per server.

 

Most veterans I've played with have one GSF character per faction. A very few have two.

 

Only one person that I've ever played with has constantly changed his name to discourage attackers. It wasn't very effective.

 

I agree that it makes little difference -- which is why so few people do it, and why no one is "forced" to make alts.

That's why I said I was stretching things when I said "forced to fly alts".

That's either ineffective (beside a few matches) or you should changes alts so often that it's boring, frustrating, <insert negative qualitative>...

 

It was my way to say that the proposed solution (if focused -> play alt) wasn't a solution. Maybe it wasn't the best way to say it.

 

In a sentence, it's detrimental to the competitive aspect of the game.

 

The rivalries above help foster a sense of community. Playing as a team (which generally means voip, but a lot of games have that built in) does the same.

Personally, as long as I have scoreboards, and an UI that says me who killed me, I don't need more to build rivalries... I don't need to see one's name as he's killing me.

 

That's a bit how Gunships kill anyway. They do so much burst damage that you often die without having their name displayed before the kill fly-text.

After a second thought, it's not only Gunships' kills that are like that because most of the time (from personal experience) I kill people/I am killed while they are/I am targetting someone else.

 

People tend to be dumb. If we're not constantly reminded that we're fighting other people, we don't realize it. Removing nameplates, at some level, removes the "player" part of "enemy player". Sometimes that's even possible with nameplates on -- buy me a drink sometime and I'll tell you about the time I kited a town guard halfway across Un'goro Crater.

 

Without that sense of community, sportsmanship plummets. People are only good sports out of a sense of respect for each other, and it's very hard to gain respect for "unidentified fighter".

As far forgetting we're fighting "players", I have no fear. This game mode is PvP exclusive, we're reminded of people names at each kills...

No, really, I have no fear of people forgetting that ennemies are players and seeing a rising lack of sportmanship.

Well, at least not more than now... After all we have people ganking lowbie in the ground name, these ones won't be more sportman-like here.

I think that those who will forget that ennemies are players, are already forgetting it.

 

I'd even say that those fighting in teams and who rely on "sure kill" tactics that rely on name calling focuses (like multiple coordinated Rails) aren't really sportman-like, and they don't get any respect from their victims. Limiting its occurance, as little effective as it may be, could improve the community according to these criterias.

 

As for "unindentified killers" not gaining due respect, that wouldn't be true as they won't be unindentified as soon as they have dealt the killing blow. (Because of fly-text)

 

Even beyond that, nameplates relay important tactical information. If I see Rhint in a Quarrel, Rhodogast in a Rampart, and Arvokai in a Flashfire, that's a very different situation than if I saw Rhint in a Flashfire, Rhodogast in a Quarrel, and Arvokai in a Rampart. Three very good pilots in three very powerful ships... with three completely different playstyles per ship.

 

Hell, remove even that -- let's say someone dropped and their spot was backfilled, or maybe I didn't pay attention to the teams at the start, or maybe I'm Just Too Busy to remember who's playing where. If I have a Pike behind me, I could very well forget whether I'm fighting Large or Itkovian. Both are very good Pike pilots, and both play completely differently. I can make a guess as to who it is, and adjust my tactics based on that guess, but if I'm wrong, I'm screwed.

 

And, at that point, I'm not screwed because I made a mistake, but I'm screwed because the game decided to arbitrarily withhold critical information -- which is exactly what this change will feel like, since nameplates have been enabled from the start.

That, I can't really argue with. That would shamble our habits, for the best or the worst, who knows.

 

The only thing I can say is that everbody would be in the same situation (if it's a plain removal, not tied to a component).

We may see less "I know you're bad/I know how to beat you so I'll slain you in no time".

May it be good, or may it be bad, I don't know.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Altheran

[Armonddd]

But you say it was also fun to see an unknown name being able to actually do something.

Without names, almost all encounters will be like this.

 

It's only interesting because I start recognizing the name. If the name doesn't exist, I can't recognize the guy in later matches, or send him a tell congratulating him, or anything like that.

 

Almost because you can deduct from the ship model that the pilot you're targetting isn't the one you should be aware of... and a quick look at the map wih "M" can tell you what ship the one you're looking for is currently flying.

 

But I can't tell his name when he's looking at me, just his ship type. If he's the only guy flying a pike, ok, sure, I can take a look at the map while respawning (never during flight, I don't think anyone would ever do that) and figure out who he is... but then the point of removing the nameplate is negated entirely. And if he's not the only guy flying that ship class, well, back to the above.

 

Personally, as long as I have scoreboards, and an UI that says me who killed me, I don't need more to build rivalries... I don't need to see one's name as he's killing me.

 

That's fine, but a lot of players do enjoy that aspect of the game. Removing it would be a hit for them.

 

That's a bit how Gunships kill anyway. They do so much burst damage that you often die without having their name displayed before the kill fly-text.

After a second thought, it's not only Gunships' kills that are like that because most of the time (from personal experience) I kill people/I am killed while they are/I am targetting someone else.

 

This is part of why I think the burst damage in this game is too high, though the flytext helps a bit.

 

As far forgetting we're fighting "players", I have no fear. This game mode is PvP exclusive, we're reminded of people names at each kills...

No, really, I have no fear of people forgetting that ennemies are players and seeing a rising lack of sportmanship.

 

You'd think, but psychology is a much less logical branch of science than you might expect.