Levram Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I play a Deception assassin. One of this spec's key abilities is "Maul" which can only be trigged when standing behind an enemy. The area that is considered to be the "back" of an enemy is very generous and is around 180 degrees. If you try to trigger Maul when not standing in the appropriate position the ability will not light-up on your quickbar and you will receive red text on your screen saying "Must be behind target." The Bulwarks in the Draxus fight in Dread Fortress do not consistently have a "back" that permits Maul to be triggered on my assassin. The following three examples were recorded in 8-man nightmare pulls on April 17, 2014. Video examples As can be seen in Examples 1 and 2, the Maul ability is lit up on my quickbar (Keybind "4"), but the error message "Must be behind target" appears when I try to trigger the ability on the Bulwark. In Example 3, my character's position is the exact same as in the first two examples, but Maul is able to be successfully triggered. The inconsistency in whether key damage dealing abilities such as Maul can be triggered on the Bulwarks in nightmare content is a significant problem and affects all abilities where a character needs to stand behind an enemy. Assassin DPS is already in enough trouble without having it lowered even more with bugs such as these. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerba Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I don't think this is a bug; I am assuming that you just drew the aggro and the Bulwark turned toward you so you could no longer backstap it. There may be a small display bug because the Bulwarak stayed facing forward in the video while I believe that it did in fact turn toward you. For future reference, make sure to turn on Target of Target in the Interface Editor. This will help with debugging reports like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGITSJAD Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I don't think this is a bug; I am assuming that you just drew the aggro and the Bulwark turned toward you so you could no longer backstap it. There may be a small display bug because the Bulwarak stayed facing forward in the video while I believe that it did in fact turn toward you. For future reference, make sure to turn on Target of Target in the Interface Editor. This will help with debugging reports like this. He does have ToT on, it is just in the center of his screen, above his middle quickbar. You can see when he can't Maul, the Bulwark's target is Acuzel, but most of the times the Bulwark didn't turn around to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levram Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 Yes, target-of-target appears to the left of my character on screen. There definitely are a couple of bugs occurring here depending on what the developer's intentions were, which I can't determine. The Bulwarks are designed to be stable while casting their shields and NOT turn towards a player. This possibility is supported by the fact that A) the Bulwarks do not physically turn to face me when I have aggro on them, and B) Maul remains lit on my quickbar when I am standing behind them. Maul does not light up when an assassin is standing in front of an enemy.The Bulwards are designed to turn towards the player that has aggro on them. This possibility is supported by the fact that the error message "Must be behind target" appears when I have aggro on the Bulwark, indicating that the game thinks the Bulwark is facing me. If Possibility 1 is correct then the bug is the fact that Maul cannot be triggered when the player is standing behind the Bulwark but also has aggro on them. If Possibility 2 is correct then the bugs are A) the Bulwark animations do not show them turning and B) Maul should be dimmed as an ability when the Bulwarks turns. Personally I believe that Possibility 1 is the more likely scenario. The Bulwarks look at though they are making a serious effort to keep those shields up based on their body position. Spinning around on the spot to face different people seems silly. As well, they have no offensive capabilities, so they shouldn't have an aggro table in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawabonga Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) Yes, target-of-target appears to the left of my character on screen. There definitely are a couple of bugs occurring here depending on what the developer's intentions were, which I can't determine. The Bulwarks are designed to be stable while casting their shields and NOT turn towards a player. This possibility is supported by the fact that A) the Bulwarks do not physically turn to face me when I have aggro on them, and B) Maul remains lit on my quickbar when I am standing behind them. Maul does not light up when an assassin is standing in front of an enemy.The Bulwards are designed to turn towards the player that has aggro on them. This possibility is supported by the fact that the error message "Must be behind target" appears when I have aggro on the Bulwark, indicating that the game thinks the Bulwark is facing me. If Possibility 1 is correct then the bug is the fact that Maul cannot be triggered when the player is standing behind the Bulwark but also has aggro on them. If Possibility 2 is correct then the bugs are A) the Bulwark animations do not show them turning and B) Maul should be dimmed as an ability when the Bulwarks turns. Personally I believe that Possibility 1 is the more likely scenario. The Bulwarks look at though they are making a serious effort to keep those shields up based on their body position. Spinning around on the spot to face different people seems silly. As well, they have no offensive capabilities, so they shouldn't have an aggro table in the first place. Good luck telling them they don't have offensive capabilities when they're murdering you after you fail to kill them before the channel ends The problem here lies with the fact that Bulwarks are designed to be stationary when casting that ability, and the center and direction of the ability is themselves. Maul is designed to light up when you're behind the target on your client. What is happening is: your client sees it's behind the target and lights up maul. The client communicates to the server that maul is being used. The servers says "hang on, you're the target of this target, and he's casting an ability that is centered on himself, you can't be behind it.". The fix would be to either change the ability Hypergate Shielding to be stationary, centered and directioned 0.1m in front of the Bulwark, or remove the aggro table completely, the Bulwarks spawn facing one way and they stay there with no aggro on anyone. Once the shielding ability ends they pick on the closest person Edited April 18, 2014 by Kawabonga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerba Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) Oh, totally missed the ToT frame there. It appears like client & server are not synced regarding to the position/rotation of the Bulwarks. This definitely sounds like a bug. I am not sure if Kawabonga is correct since there are too many details about SWTOR we don't know. However, even when they fix this bug, your problem will still not be solved. Since the Bulwarks are turning on the server, I believe that they should turn on the client as well. In that case, I suggest one of following workarounds for your group: Have an tank/offtank who is standing in the center taunt the Bulwark to make sure you are always behind it.Send a different DPS to those groups who does not need to be behind the target (any class but sins/ops)Respec into a different tree that does not rely on backstap that much Edited April 18, 2014 by Jerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levram Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 The fix would be to either change the ability Hypergate Shielding to be stationary, centered and directioned 0.1m in front of the Bulwark, or remove the aggro table completely, the Bulwarks spawn facing one way and they stay there with no aggro on anyone. Once the shielding ability ends they pick on the closest person Yes, these seems like a good fix; have them be stationary up until their shield ends, then have them aggro on the closest player and annihilate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levram Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 However, even when they fix this bug, your problem will still not be solved. Since the Bulwarks are turning on the server, I believe that they should turn on the client as well. In that case, I suggest one of following workarounds for your group: Have an tank/offtank who is standing in the center taunt the Bulwark to make sure you are always behind it.Send a different DPS to those groups who does not need to be behind the target (any class but sins/ops)Respec into a different tree that does not rely on backstap that much Right, I'm definitely open to changing our strategy if this became a problem. We're doing fine with clearing the phases with our current arrangement. I just kill the Bulwark without using Maul. The bug report is more for the fact that it is very annoying to have Maul available with Duplicity procced and the Bulwark just standing there looking over his shoulder at me saying "No, no, no. You can't do that." When I'm looking a Subteroth in the face, I know I can't Maul it, and I accept that, grumpily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prototypemind Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) This occurs in all modes, I've run into it on my Concealment Operative as well as my Sin. I did find that tonight I could backstab from the side, but only from just the right spots. Edited June 4, 2014 by Prototypemind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ehbuse Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 No, no mister superman no home. I've noticed this on HM and SM aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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