Opinions on Darth Caedus

[Jedi_Knight_Jess]

Reading Legacy to me, one of the greatest mistakes of reading the EU for me. I'm rereading NJO, and I'll possibly read Dark Nest, and promptly headcanon the rest from there.

 

For anyone whose read the EU, what's your take on the....latest....Sith Lord

[Sanguiluna]

Crappy Sith. His motivations and campaign ran completely contrary to the Sith Code. His whole campaign was to ensure galactic peace in order for his daughter to grow up in a better galaxy. The same daughter that he willingly lost a duel to the death to save...

 

Freakin Malgus KILLED the person he loved most so that no one could her as leverage and he'd be free of weakness. And Caedus couldn't even bring himself to kill his sister who was actively trying to kill him.

 

Yeah, he may have been the second strongest Jedi of his time. But a powerful Sith he was NOT.

[DarknessInLight]

Reading Legacy to me, one of the greatest mistakes of reading the EU for me. I'm rereading NJO, and I'll possibly read Dark Nest, and promptly headcanon the rest from there.

 

For anyone whose read the EU, what's your take on the....latest....Sith Lord

 

We will find out about Darth Caedus in the upcoming Star Wars film, since it is becoming more apparent that he will be the primary villain.

[Sadishist]

I think Jacen sacrificed the wrong person. It shouldn't have been Mara Jade (someone he didn't care for). Otherwise, he was great, putting up good fight while every character in Star Wars wanted him dead. Edited April 1, 2014 by Sadishist

[Slowpokeking]

He was not a good villain, not a good Sith, I would rather have Jaina fall to the Dark Side then drag Mara in.

[DarthDymond]

I'll play Caedus apologist for a bit, most of my thoughts on him were summed up in a discussion about LotF elsewhere (so parts of this may be more on-point about the series than the character):

[Jacen's story arc] tells a much better version of Anakin's fall. Jacen's messiah complex is believably developed based on his arc in the NJO and his "walkabout" afterwards, rather than simply relying on the somewhat lazy and overused trope of being a prophecy's "Chosen One" like with Anakin.

 

Jacen's motivations and slide from being well-intentioned to becoming an outright monster are also done a lot better than with Anakin's jarring and abrupt turn in RotS (at least in the movie, I've heard the novelization does a much better job with it). And since, for the readers, Anakin was always on the path to a becoming Vader, it was more interesting, IMHO, to see the "pride goes before destruction" arc played out with someone who legitimately could have gone either way.

 

I loved Jacen as a character, Traitor is probably my single favorite SW novel overall, and Jacen was probably my favorite character in NJO even before they swapped his role with his brother's to make him the hero. But I'm okay with how he was handled in these novels, since his arc and its end were in genuine service to the story, rather than a cheap "shock value" twist or anything like that.

 

And part of me was intrigued and even would have preferred if the meta-series had ultimately endorsed Vergere's approach to the Force as the "right" one, or at least a potentially right one. But while I personally favor that philosophy, I don't disagree with the idea that "black and white" morality is built into Star Wars at a pretty basic level, much moreso than moral relativism at least. (Although we definitely see individual authors and sub-series try to push the boundaries there from time to time.) If they made the conscious decision to stay true to that philosophy, and discredited Vergere's views in the process, I can ultimately respect that, and at least they told a good story with it.

 

I do agree however that one major negative has been that the "old guard" from the movies have been forced back to center stage. Especially when NJO could, and should, have been the proper hand-off to the next generation.

 

The underlying marketing concerns of "When consumers see 'Star Wars' they want Luke Skywalker!" are pretty obvious, but I feel like it has hurt the storytelling in the meta-series the same way we see in major comicbook series, where they always have to maintain the status quo or at least reset to it very, very frequently.

 

(The series definitely has a few other problems as well, mainly the inconsistent characterizations and shifts in focus between the three authors, and the way they all failed to adequately justify the times the heroes couldn't/wouldn't see what was really going on with Jacen right in front of their faces - I assume because of their love for him.)

[Slowpokeking]

I'll play Caedus apologist for a bit, most of my thoughts on him were summed up in a discussion about LotF elsewhere (so parts of this may be more on-point about the series than the character):

 

I don't think he fit the role of the antagonist, probably a second or third in command. And they gave him way too little time as the big bad, he got beaten way too quickly.

[DarthDymond]

I don't think he fit the role of the antagonist, probably a second or third in command. And they gave him way too little time as the big bad, he got beaten way too quickly.

Didn't he get four full books as the big bad? He had a longer run than Thrawn.

[Jedi_Knight_Jess]

It's been years since I read LOTF, but didn't everyone seem OOC?

 

Luke missed Mara terribly, and Ben's near dark side brush was in character...but no one, thought Jacen was redeemable?

 

Luke- the man who went to the ends of the Earth, sacrificing himself to the ideal that his father- Vader, still had good in him....and his nephew- nope, he's gotta die.....

 

and here's what I don't get.... why in the seven layers of heck, didn't Jacen just tell someone about his white throne, vision thing?

 

Is there a policy of keeping silent on force visions?

 

I'm a little miffed that Jacen didn't get a stand alone book detailing his five year force journey.... I mean that's a good chuck of info right there- and where the whole vision thing came from.....

[AlrikFassbauer]

I have a mental list of "unneccessary death" since ten years or so ago ... Mara Jade and the Lady Of Sith Lumiya are definitively on that.

 

My biggest problem with Lumiya (she is the character I have been thinking about most) is, that in the Star Wars Universe, there is NEVER a theme of Healing or of Redemtion - the only exception is the late Darth Vader.

 

I would rather have liked to see Lumiya turn to the Light Side again, and getting redeemed from her dark past - now THAT would have been epic ! At least I believe so.

 

But in the Star Wars Universe, villains ALWAYS get killed - if defeated - or get into prison. They NEVER get redeemed like the late Darth Vader did.

 

To me, this is a typical bias of american authors who can think only in "Star Wars terms, to to say. Maybe that's a prejudice of mine, but the whole Sage is about nothing but Wars. We never get to learn the struggles of farmers, for example. In the whole Stzar Wars Universe, we know all things military by 200 % more than ANYTHING mundane and things used in everyday life. Meanwhile in the books only "cooking units" are mentioned, Blasters get specific model numbers every major fan knows what is meant with. Instead of an MA-33 (name made up for example)cooling unit, which differs from the TBA-54 cooling unit through the additional batteries, we know nothing about cooling units, but instead we know a LOT more about the difference between an DLT-19 and an DLT-20a blaster rifle.

 

So, my personal problem is the overall theme : Jedi get over to the DArk Side fairly often, but what we NEVER EVER see, are Sith getting over to the Light Side ...

 

So much potential for drama wasted ... And chosen the way of a kind of drama I don't like at all ...

Edited April 1, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[DarthDymond]

I have a mental list of "unneccessary death" since ten years or so ago ... Mara Jade and the Lady Of Sith Lumiya are definitively on that.

 

My biggest problem with Lumiya (she is the character I have been thinking about most) is, that in the Star Wars Universe, there is NEVER a theme of Healing or of Redemtion - the only exception is the late Darth Vader.

 

I would rather have liked to see Lumiya turn to the Light Side again, and getting redeemed from her dark past - now THAT would have been epic ! At least I believe so.

 

But in the Star Wars Universe, villains ALWAYS get killed - if defeated - or get into prison. They NEVER get redeemed like the late Darth Vader did.

 

To me, this is a typical bias of american authors who can think only in "Star Wars terms, to to say. Maybe that's a prejudice of mine, but the whole Sage is about nothing but Wars. We never get to learn the struggles of farmers, for example. In the whole Stzar Wars Universe, we know all things military by 200 % more than ANYTHING mundane and things used in everyday life. Meanwhile in the books only "cooking units" are mentioned, Blasters get specific model numbers every major fan knows what is meant with. Instead of an MA-33 (name made up for example)cooling unit, which differs from the TBA-54 cooling unit through the additional batteries, we know nothing about cooling units, but instead we know a LOT more about the difference between an DLT-19 and an DLT-20a blaster rifle.

 

So, my personal problem is the overall theme : Jedi get over to the DArk Side fairly often, but what we NEVER EVER see, are Sith getting over to the Light Side ...

 

So much potential for drama wasted ... And chosen the way of a kind of drama I don't like at all ...

Sure we do, just to name the ones I can think of off-hand we already had several like Kyp Durron, Zekk, Kam Solusar, Flint, Ulic Qel-Droma, Yun, and Gav Daragon by the time of LotF (plus Luke himself in Dark Empire come to think of it), and since then we also had Tahiri, Galen Marek (twice if you count the Starkiller clone separately) and a bunch in TOR like Kira, Praven, Bengel Morr and Sajar.

 

Heck to play Devil's Advocate on Vader's own story arc, there's something a bit... off about "Yeah, I'm complicit in the murders of literally billions of people, and I personally killed young children with my own hands... but I love my own son, and I'm not willing to sit and watch him be tortured to death in front of my face. So, on balance, that means I end up as a good guy right?"

You could even say that's another place in which Caedus's story is Vader's done right, since it shows that "yeah, the good guys love you, and maybe there's someone out there you love... but that doesn't give you a free pass on being a mass-murderer."

Edited April 1, 2014 by DarthDymond

[YoshiRaphElan]

Caedus is a whiny brat who ruined the characterization of Jacen Solo at the end of NJO. He might as well be a clone. He's not even close to the same person.

[ImmortalLowlife]

I personally despise the "fall of Jacen solo". He's a character that after Anakins death (which is also hated btw) should have been the future of the Jedi order. But that's essentially my biggest issue with the EU. That after "survivors quest" they seemed to start killing off major characters for stupid a** reasons. I mean seriously....he went from being a peace loving, animal friendly, model Jedi & savior to "everybody's against me, and no-one can understand me" Sith Lord. And all because

of a vision he saw while mind walking. A vision he had no real reason NOT to talk to his uncle about.

[YoshiRaphElan]

I personally despise the "fall of Jacen solo". He's a character that after Anakins death (which is also hated btw) should have been the future of the Jedi order. But that's essentially my biggest issue with the EU. That after "survivors quest" they seemed to start killing off major characters for stupid a** reasons. I mean seriously....he went from being a peace loving, animal friendly, model Jedi & savior to "everybody's against me, and no-one can understand me" Sith Lord. And all because

of a vision he saw while mind walking. A vision he had no real reason NOT to talk to his uncle about.

 

Exactly. Thank. You. Very. Much.