MarcoTrowalker Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Hey guys, I've been reading a lot of threads and I'm confused on when to pop zen. My current rotation is force leap-overload saber-zealous strike-cauterize-merciless-zen-master strike-twin saber throw and then CD priorities. But, some threads say this is the proper way to use zen, at 3 stacks of OS. While others say to use zen at 2 stacks of OS then use zen, then apply the third stack with merciless slash to look like this, force leap-overload saber-zealous strike-cauterize-zen-merciless slash-master strike-twin saber throw and so on. Can anyone help explain which is better and why and what the difference is? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkingskeever Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I suggest looking at Emperor-Norton's guide here, and reading the section specifically on Zen. Hope that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoTrowalker Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 I read that thread already lol but thanks for the reply man:) thats where it gets confusing because that thread says to use zen at 2 stacks of OS where Dulfy says to use zen at 3 stacks of OS in her new guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) I read that thread already lol but thanks for the reply man:) thats where it gets confusing because that thread says to use zen at 2 stacks of OS where Dulfy says to use zen at 3 stacks of OS in her new guide I remember Dulfy saying somewhere that her guides were more for getting really good performance out of everyone, while on the other hand you will sometimes find people write guides for maximum performance. These Maximum-performance guides are typically a lot more complex (e.g. Dulfy's guide for a tactics vanguard involves clipping the DoT from Gut, while an optimal rotation doesn't do this), such as Nortons Guide to Watchman Sentinel suggesting starting Zen a little earlier. Another fancy shenanigan for watchman is to start with <4.5 seconds on Overload Saber's Cooldown, which doing so results in 100% uptime on overload saber (dont ask how it works, it just does). Though that one is really hard to work with. Edited March 30, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoTrowalker Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Ye that 4.5 second this sounds very confusing lol thanks a lot man i'll figure it out:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oofalong Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Hey guys, I've been reading a lot of threads and I'm confused on when to pop zen. My current rotation is force leap-overload saber-zealous strike-cauterize-merciless-zen-master strike-twin saber throw and then CD priorities. But, some threads say this is the proper way to use zen, at 3 stacks of OS. While others say to use zen at 2 stacks of OS then use zen, then apply the third stack with merciless slash to look like this, force leap-overload saber-zealous strike-cauterize-zen-merciless slash-master strike-twin saber throw and so on. Can anyone help explain which is better and why and what the difference is? Thanks The goal of Zen is to have as many 3-stack Overload Saber ticks crit as possible. This will be maximum damage. However, there are only 3 ticks of 3-stack Overload Saber and Zen will make 6 ticks auto-crit. Thus, we have 3 ticks left to try and line up. Cauterize puts a 6s DoT which ticks every second. If done properly, Overload Saber will tick 5 total times, once at 1-stack, once at 2-stacks and thrice at 3-stacks. The best possible option would be to have a 2-stack crit for one of our remaining three ticks. The challenge becomes managing what other DoTs are on your target. For instance, the best option would autocrits on 2x Cauterize, 1x 2-stack Overload Saber, 3x 3-stack Overload Saber. From start to finish this would take 6s. And, this requires your Cauterize DoT to expire after the second tick of Overload Saber. This can be very difficult to line up, and truthfully it isn't worth your time to do so. If you fail at getting this exact timing then you could end up with autcrits on: 3x Cauterize, 1x 2-stack Overload Saber and 2x 3-stack Overload Saber. From start to finish this could take 4.5s. In order to ensure more DPS from Zen you want to make sure as many three 3-stacks crit, the only way to guarantee this is to use Zen right after the 3rd stack is applied. Technically this isn't the optimal, but the optimal requires timing that is beyond your control. Thus, this becomes the best choice. Make sense? Edited March 31, 2014 by oofalong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoTrowalker Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Ye man that makes perfect sense! Thanks a lot man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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