Suggestion: Keep Damage Overcharge, but cap its total bonus damage to ~3000

[Itkovian]

Because... as far as I'm concerned over the complaints of gunships, bombers, power-ups, humping satellites, etc... that's the only solution that'll please folks entirely who claim that all they want is a dogfight.

 

Reductio ad absurdium won't exactly help the argument, nor ad hominems.

 

But perhaps, just perhaps, it could be that some players don't like certain game elements. That doesn't mean they're right, of course, maybe the devs DID intend for TDM to be dominated by power-up parkour (hell, that's how Quake fecking worked)... but that also doesn't mean we're not allowed to voice our concerns and displeasure about it.

 

And maybe we're right, and this is an unintended consequence of their design, in which case it's certainly a good thing for us to make noise about it (and, of course, those who like things the way they are can also voice their satisfaction). Ultimately the devs will decide if and how to rectify the situation.

 

Either way, it is certainly inappropriate to tell people to sit down and take their lumps, and cast aspersions concerning people's incapacity to adapt to "tactics" (especially when part of our concern is what happens when everyone adopts the necessary tactics).

 

That line of reasoning discourages any constructive feedback, as we should all be happy with the game as-is. Moreover it is patently wrong, as games like these DEPEND on feedback to provide the most enjoyable experience possible, and we are the best placed to offer such feedback (especially since meta is something that emerges through live gameplay, and is unlikely to have been tested and balanced).

 

In any case, I'm not looking forward to TDM becoming a game of power up parkour, and so I'm speaking up before that becomes the norm, in the hopes the devs do something about it.

 

Thank you.

[Ramalina]

But, never mind that, lets go with it... Yes, Damage Overcharge is game changing for the instant that it is on the field and in the hands of a capable pilot.

 

Now what's your point?

 

I think the fundamental point they're trying to make is that they feel DO is a disproportionately powerful power-up. The other power ups are nice, and teams and/or pilots that pick them up will have an advantage assuming they don't waste too much time flying to and from the power-up spawn locations. Despite the buffs though, they don't for the most part make a really large difference in match outcomes.

 

In the case of DO though, the buff is powerful enough to potentially make DO buff control a central part of TDM strategy. If someone suggests, "drop everything and try to grab DO," it's not a completely unwarranted strategy. Or to mine or turret up on spawn locations.

 

Also there's the question of whether TDM is supposed to be pure furball, or is it really just objective based play where the objective is picking up DO power-ups.

 

Of course DO control by itself won't win any matches if they aren't used effectively. If people feel enough pressure from the effects though, they may feel that the game is giving enough incentive to treat the DO spawns as an objective to reduce the difference in feel between TDM and Domination matches.

 

Aside from the whole Pac-Man/Mario Bros vibe which I personally am not a fan of, there's the question of why have a bunch of power-ups of 'meh' and one power-up of 'DOOM!'

 

I've never been hit by it to my knowledge, and deal with it by the procedure of: LOS person who's name just got printed across screen in big red letters.

 

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but the pro-DO faction here seems to be saying that the real problem is that skilled pilots rip apart less experienced pilots, and DO doesn't really change that.

 

If that's true though, why should the skilled pilots be handed a bonus to make the contest even more tilted in their favor than it was before?

 

Of course the real essence of this thread is that GSF has a lot of features that would be fine in a uniformly well geared and experienced player pool, but that tend to make the introductory experience for new players a discouraging series of getting blown up without accomplishing anything.

[tortcat]

I like to find it..and place a bunch of mines all around it...but thats just me

[RatPoison]

In any case, I'm not looking forward to TDM becoming a game of power up parkour, and so I'm speaking up before that becomes the norm, in the hopes the devs do something about it.

 

And it hasn't and it isn't that. Additionally, nobody here has demonstrated otherwise, and people are blatantly stating or inadvertently inferring that it is an issue of good pilot vs. bad pilot.

 

That's all it ever is.

 

Ramalina's post states as much towards the end...

 

Let's face it, GSF matches are determined primarily by one thing... the team with the greater number of skilled/better players. Coordination helps, situational awareness and the ability to adapt to different ships being used and play styles gets a person far... but if you're one pilot against many... then damage overcharge in a deathmatch is a blessing that gives the skilled underdog at least a chance at bolstering their team.

 

It's the close matches or the true newbie vs. newbie matches with only a good player or two on each team where one good player hunts out this buff that a match can get out of hand. And even then... it's simply a tactic, it can be countered, it can be fought against if the skill level of the pilot using and fighting against it are relatively close. It's like getting into a domination match with only a couple of good pilots on either side and recognizing they are priority targets and making sure to keep them minimized.

 

...

 

I've always been under the impression that having things to adapt to and tactics to learn and use appropriately was the thrill of pvp and the challenge behind it.

[Armonddd]

And it hasn't and it isn't that. Additionally, nobody here has demonstrated otherwise, and people are blatantly stating or inadvertently inferring that it is an issue of good pilot vs. bad pilot.

 

Hi, welcome to The Ebon Hawk, where this strategy is becoming more and more prevalent.

[RatPoison]

Hi, welcome to The Ebon Hawk, where this strategy is becoming more and more prevalent.

 

Guess you better hope you're a better pilot if you don't feel compelled to pay attention to your minimap and messages on when somebody picks it up.

 

Tactics are rough business.

[Nemarus]

Guess you better hope you're a better pilot if you don't feel compelled to pay attention to your minimap and messages on when somebody picks it up.

 

Tactics are rough business.

 

Minimap?

 

Does it actually show any useful info for getting DO or avoiding someone who has it? All I ever see are grey spheres which don't seem to have any correlation with what is spawned.

[Nemarus]

Minimap?

 

Does it actually show any useful info for getting DO or avoiding someone who has it? All I ever see are grey spheres which don't seem to have any correlation with what is spawned.

 

OMG I'm an idiot. I just paid attention to the minimap and got EVERY DO. I don't even need to glance anywhere anymore--I can tell before spawning exactly where it is...

[Kuciwalker]

I think the fundamental point they're trying to make is that they feel DO is a disproportionately powerful power-up. The other power ups are nice, and teams and/or pilots that pick them up will have an advantage assuming they don't waste too much time flying to and from the power-up spawn locations. Despite the buffs though, they don't for the most part make a really large difference in match outcomes.

 

..snip...

 

Of course the real essence of this thread is that GSF has a lot of features that would be fine in a uniformly well geared and experienced player pool, but that tend to make the introductory experience for new players a discouraging series of getting blown up without accomplishing anything.

 

I agree with all of this, including the stuff I snipped.

[Itkovian]

Hi, welcome to The Ebon Hawk, where this strategy is becoming more and more prevalent.

 

Even if it wasn't right now, it will. That's the nature of meta. It floats tot he top and then becomes prevalent. Sometimes its faster than others, and I admit that barring a few pilots most people just go and dogfight.

 

But the meta is clear, and more and more the chase-the-red-ball parkour will become the standard in TDM, and my hope (and that of many others, hence these threads) is that something is done to prevent it from happening. To make DO a useful bonus, but not the overwhelming advantage that makes it more productive to ignore the fighting and just go grab the DO, wherever it may be on the map.

 

Crying "tactics" and "adapt" is meaningless, because that is being said about _every single_ balance issue in the game. Sure we can adapt, and sure it is a valid tactic, but if we feel it makes the game less enjoyable it is our responsibility to speak up and let the devs know. Hence this thread and others like it.

 

I don't want to play a chase-the-red-ball parkour game mode, I'd rather play "go find the enemy and kill it in an intense contest of skill" mode instead. And when DO chasing becomes so prevalent that the best way to win is to grab it first for your team, then it'll be a sad state of affair indeed, at least in my opinion (and not because I and other posters like Armonddd couldn't just adapt and excel at it as well... but rather because we consider it less enjoyable). And I hope the devs recognize this.

 

And that's not getting into the whole balance issues of having a power up that essentially turns everyone else into blue ghosts.

[Nemarus]

Even if it wasn't right now, it will. That's the nature of meta. It floats tot he top and then becomes prevalent. Sometimes its faster than others, and I admit that barring a few pilots most people just go and dogfight.

 

But the meta is clear, and more and more the chase-the-red-ball parkour will become the standard in TDM, and my hope (and that of many others, hence these threads) is that something is done to prevent it from happening. To make DO a useful bonus, but not the overwhelming advantage that makes it more productive to ignore the fighting and just go grab the DO, wherever it may be on the map.

 

Crying "tactics" and "adapt" is meaningless, because that is being said about _every single_ balance issue in the game. Sure we can adapt, and sure it is a valid tactic, but if we feel it makes the game less enjoyable it is our responsibility to speak up and let the devs know. Hence this thread and others like it.

 

I don't want to play a chase-the-red-ball parkour game mode, I'd rather play "go find the enemy and kill it in an intense contest of skill" mode instead. And when DO chasing becomes so prevalent that the best way to win is to grab it first for your team, then it'll be a sad state of affair indeed, at least in my opinion (and not because I and other posters like Armonddd couldn't just adapt and excel at it as well... but rather because we consider it less enjoyable). And I hope the devs recognize this.

 

And that's not getting into the whole balance issues of having a power up that essentially turns everyone else into blue ghosts.

 

Not sure if this will make you feel better or worse, Itkovian, but I was able to post my best numbers yet in (surprisingly) a Strike (Gladiator) by getting several Damage Overcharges. In this case I didn't hunt for them, but I did stay to the middle of the map and glance at the minimap in idle moments.

 

Usually I just saw red flash across my screen as I was turning to chase someone, and DO was within a single Barrel Roll. But once I had DO, a HLC with 6900m range can kill a LOT of foes very fast--and unlike my Blackbolt, which can be forced to flee if someone gets a good bead/lock on me, my Gladiator has the shield power to actually stay put and keep on killing.

 

I'd say that Scout mobility isn't actually that important in getting DO -- it's really more about staying in the center (horizontally speaking) of the map. That's where all DO spawns are located. And once you do get DO, I'd say range + durability will get you more kills than mobility + fragility. So in that sense, Strikes might not be so bad off for taking advantage of DO. Same with Bombers, if they have Heavy Laser Cannons and know how to use them.

[Verain]

I find heavy lasers to be the best laser for this, because every shot matters so much. Quads and Laser cannons come in a close second. The short range lasers miss out I think- it just takes longer to get into range, and opponents normally run from a DOed opponent. I also think clusters are absolutely aces with DO, as one of them always hits.