Blitz-wing Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) PvE: The Set Bonus Combat Tech’s 2pc – Reduce the cooldown by 15sec of Explosive Fuel. 4pc – Increase the damage by 8% of Rail Shot. Eliminator’s 2pc – N/A to PT’s but needed by Merc’s 4pc – Increase the damage by 8% of Rail Shot. Supercommando’s 2pc – Increase duration by of Oil Slick by 2sec & Energy Shield by 3ec. 4pc – Increase Defence by 2%. PvE: Review Combat Tech – 2pc Explosive Fuel is used in conjunction with Shoulder Cannon for Burst DPS. Shoulder Cannon fire time + Shoulder Cannon cooldown + Shoulder Cannon load time = Explosive Fuel cooldown. Therefore reducing the cooldown of Explosive Fuel is a waste. 4pc is the same as the Eliminator 4pc. Damage increase to Rail Shot is needed. Therefore, Powertech DPS should get the Eliminator Set if they have a Mercenary Alt. Otherwise it doesn’t matter which set as only the 4pc has any impact. Supercommando – 2pc is a benefit to Tanking & is needed in endgame raiding. 4pc is an increase to defence. However there are several abilities in the Shieldtech tree that benefit from shielding attacks, increasing Defence reduces the number of shield rolls & therefore shielded attacks. This set bonus works against the Shieldtech skill tree. Edited March 12, 2014 by Blitz-wing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz-wing Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) PvP: The Set Bonus Combat Tech’s 2pc – Extend Carbonise effect by 0.5sec & reduce the cooldown of Determination by 15sec. 4pc – Critical Chance increase by 15% to Rocket Punch. Eliminator’s 2pc – N/A to PT’s by needed by Merc’s. 4pc – Critical Chance increase by 15% to Rail Shot Supercommando’s 2pc – Reduce the cooldown by 1.5 on Heat Blast & Jet Charge. 4pc – Increase damage to player’s by 5% while guarding another player. PvP: Review Combat Tech – 2pc is a good boost to both Shieldtech & Advanced Prototype builds. Increase to the CC can be both an increase to DPS & a defensive boost to Healers. Has less of an impact on Pyrotech & is less useful then another set bonus. 4pc is an ok boost to Advanced Prototype. The Critical Chance increase on Rocket Punch is fine. Little use to Pyrotech as another set bonus is more powerful. Eliminator – 2pc has no impact on Powertech abilities. 4pc has a good boost to Pyrotech. Rail Shot is used every ~6sec & and increase to the Critical Chance of Rail Shot is therefore a good boost for the build. Advanced prototype has no use for this set bonus as the skill in the AP makes Rail Shot a Critical 100% after Rocket Punch is used. Therefore Advanced Prototype Powertech’s should use the Combat Tech set. While the eliminator set should be used by Pyrotech Powertech. Supercommando – 2pc gives useable boosts to Shieldtech defensive abilities and play, needed by Shieldtech’s. 4pc is of little use to Shieldtech Powertech’s. While extra damage is always helpful, the defensive boosts given by the Combat Tech 2pc is more powerful for the Shieldtech Powertech to do its job. Edited March 11, 2014 by Blitz-wing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) PvE: Review Combat Tech – 2pc is used in conjunction with Shoulder Cannon for Burst DPS. The cooldown on Shoulder Cannon + Shoulder Cannon load time + Shoulder Cannon fire time = Explosive Fuel cooldown. Therefore reducing the cooldown of Explosive Fuel is a waste. 4pc is the same as the Eliminator 4pc. Damage increase to Rail Shot is needed. Therefore, Powertech DPS should get the Eliminator Set if they have a Mercenary Alt. Otherwise it doesn’t matter which set as only the 4pc has any impact. Your maths is off Explosive Fuel Cooldown: 120 seconds Shoulder Cannon Cooldown: 90 seconds Shoulder Cannon Load Time: ~15 seconds. Explosive Fuel Cooldown with set bonus: 105 seconds This means that the set bonus actually makes shoulder cannon synch up with explosive fuel (I notice this especially on my VG when tanking in comparison to DPSing - when DPSing, I activate SC on cooldown and as the last missile is loading Battle Focus comes off cooldown, but when tanking I have to do other stuff for 15 seconds before battle focus comes off cooldown) I agree with the PvP Points though. Edited March 11, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz-wing Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Your maths is off Explosive Fuel Cooldown: 120 seconds Shoulder Cannon Cooldown: 90 seconds Shoulder Cannon Load Time: ~15 seconds. Explosive Fuel Cooldown with set bonus: 105 seconds This means that the set bonus actually makes shoulder cannon synch up with explosive fuel (I notice this especially on my VG when tanking in comparison to DPSing - when DPSing, I activate SC on cooldown and as the last missile is loading Battle Focus comes off cooldown, but when tanking I have to do other stuff for 15 seconds before battle focus comes off cooldown) I agree with the PvP Points though. My reply to you in the PT question thread: You fail to add in the time needed to use Shoulder Cannon. Explosive Fuel lasts 15 seconds and goes on cooldown once activated. Therefore you have 15 seconds to fire all 4 or 7 rockets before Shoulder Cannon goes on cooldown. There is no point in having Explosive Fuel off cd earlier if you are just going to wait for Shoulder Cannon to reload after coming off cd. Shoulder Cannon Cooldown: 90 seconds Shoulder Cannon Load Time: 18 seconds. Shoulder Cannon Firing: 7-15 seconds. So: Shoulder Cannon = 7-15s firing + 90s cd + 18s load = 115-123 seconds. Explosive Fuel Cooldown: 120 seconds. Explosive Fuel Cooldown with set bonus: 105 seconds. Edited March 12, 2014 by Blitz-wing Corrected Explosive Fuels duration & Shoulder Cannon load time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kooziejr Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) I also want to address these issues. IMO Tank PvP & PvE set is fine (it is a mechanic thing for shield vs defense nothing to do with set bonus), AP PvP set is fine The rest need some serious attention? Others agree? Also wanted to point out explosive fuel increases crit chance by 25% for 15 seconds! Edited March 11, 2014 by Kooziejr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meisterjedi Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) You fail to add in the time needed to use Shoulder Cannon. Explosive Fuel lasts 20 seconds and goes on cooldown once activated. Therefore you have 20 seconds to fire all 4 or 7 rockets before Shoulder Cannon goes on cooldown. There is no point in having Explosive Fuel off cd earlier if you are just going to wait for Shoulder Cannon to reload after coming off cd, if you are able to activate Shoulder Cannon the second in comes off cd. Shoulder Cannon Cooldown: 90 seconds Shoulder Cannon Load Time: ~15 seconds. Shoulder Cannon Firing: ~20 seconds. So: Shoulder Cannon = 20s firing + 90s cd + 15s load = 125 seconds. Explosive Fuel Cooldown: 120 seconds. Explosive Fuel Cooldown with set bonus: 105 seconds. You do realise, that you can start shooting your shoulder cannon as soon as you have 1 rocket loaded? this means you actually use your SC while it is still loading and at the very moment the 15sec load timer is up you use your last charge of it, so it goes on cd right then. this looks more like what happens then: 1. you start with all charges and EF is off cd. 2. you activate EF and fire your SC as fast as reasonable once you do. this takes about 3-4 sec in pyro and 5-6 sec in AP as you can use it twice between globals without delaying attacks, but it does not really matter as long as you are faster than 15 sec in using it (which is the duration of EF and the load timer for all charges of SC). 3. now EF has about 100 sec left on its cd and SC has 90 sec. 4. when SC is off cd again you use it and EF has ~10 sec left onits cd. 5. once EF is ready you hit it and start using the stacks already build by SC (still has ~5 sec to charge, so 1-2 charges to go still, but they will come while EF is still active, so no loss there. 6. as soon as the last one is loaded you use it and EF has ~100 sec cd again and everything continues like before. the 15 sec cd reduction fit exactly with the SC usage in PVE for both specs. Edited March 11, 2014 by meisterjedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE_Qh Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Can't bother with math, I can only tell what i have seen. Explosive fuel just sits there and waits for shoulder cannon to come of CD and load Set bonus could be used to increase PvE dps, crit chance to flame burst, bonus damage to flame burst, same as mara's "increase all damage after activating explosive fuel". Whatever it is, it would be more useful than the current one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz-wing Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Also wanted to point out explosive fuel increases crit chance by 25% for 15 seconds! Thanks for the correction. Updated posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE_Qh Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 And shoulder cannon takes 18 seconds to load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz-wing Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 You do realise, that you can start shooting your shoulder cannon as soon as you have 1 rocket loaded? this means you actually use your SC while it is still loading and at the very moment the 15sec load timer is up you use your last charge of it, so it goes on cd right then. this looks more like what happens then: 1. you start with all charges and EF is off cd. 2. you activate EF and fire your SC as fast as reasonable once you do. this takes about 3-4 sec in pyro and 5-6 sec in AP as you can use it twice between globals without delaying attacks, but it does not really matter as long as you are faster than 15 sec in using it (which is the duration of EF and the load timer for all charges of SC). 3. now EF has about 100 sec left on its cd and SC has 90 sec. 4. when SC is off cd again you use it and EF has ~10 sec left onits cd. 5. once EF is ready you hit it and start using the stacks already build by SC (still has ~5 sec to charge, so 1-2 charges to go still, but they will come while EF is still active, so no loss there. 6. as soon as the last one is loaded you use it and EF has ~100 sec cd again and everything continues like before. the 15 sec cd reduction fit exactly with the SC usage in PVE for both specs. This is true. For those Tank & Spank Bosses: Nefra, Grob & Dread Master Tyrans. However for those other Bosses that have burn phases during the fight you are going to delay for those phases. Dread Master Calphayrus, Dread Master Raptus, Dread Council, Dread Master Brontes, Draxus & Corruptor Zero. I think after looking at several top PT parses from Hardmode raids, no one is using the 15sec reduced cooldown on Explosive Fuel in conjunction with Shoulder Cannon. The interval between Shoulder Cannon last rocket & the 1st rocket after Shoulder Cannon cooldown is larger then the 105 second reduced cooldown of Explosive Fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz-wing Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 And shoulder cannon takes 18 seconds to load Cheers, updated that info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meisterjedi Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) This is true. For those Tank & Spank Bosses: Nefra, Grob & Dread Master Tyrans. However for those other Bosses that have burn phases during the fight you are going to delay for those phases. Dread Master Calphayrus, Dread Master Raptus, Dread Council, Dread Master Brontes, Draxus & Corruptor Zero. I think after looking at several top PT parses from Hardmode raids, no one is using the 15sec reduced cooldown on Explosive Fuel in conjunction with Shoulder Cannon. The interval between Shoulder Cannon last rocket & the 1st rocket after Shoulder Cannon cooldown is larger then the 105 second reduced cooldown of Explosive Fuel. I totally agree, that the cd reduction is a rather bad set bonus, because it is often times not optimal in fights to use EF+SC on cd (which goes for all offensive cds, and is still true for EF at 120 sec cd) because of various mechanincs of incresed/reduced dmg taken by the boss like Operator IX or Kephess in Asation, or specific burn phases that could need help from the aditional burst provided by them like raptus challenges or calphayus and various other stuff like saving EF for a huge add spawn or avoiding a movement phase, where it would have reduced effect like Titan6 launching. On top of that, you have the problem that a reduced cd of 15 sec from 120 sec is even likely to not give you a single extra activation outside of very long fights, as you would need to kill the boss in relatively short time frames, where it gets for example 4 uses on 110 sec cd, but still only 3 on~125 sec cd (added some time to cd to incorporate delays due to mechanical reasons on many bosses). unfortunately I don't think there is a boss, that would require burst on a 105 sec timer, so that the bonus could really shine by allowing you to use SC + EF on each of those phases, instead of just SC and using EF without SC for the fight. In the end the cd reduction gives you some potential dmg increase and more flexibility, that often times is completely useless and doesn't change your DPS by even 1 point, but provides a nice boost in the other cases. My earlier post was mainly meant to illustrate, that the cd reduction makes both skills allign in theory, or at least almost if SC takes 18 sec to load (didn't check yet) Edited March 12, 2014 by meisterjedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos_KidSWTOR Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 So with the 4 piece Supercommando SB being counterproductive to PT Tanks, would it be advisable to take the 2 piece PvP Supercommando or the 2 piece PvE Combat Tech? Or would you lose enough End for it to be a bad idea? the 2 piece PvP Supercommando SB seems like a good idea on paper, but would the End losses and slight Aim loss be a counter to it's usefulness? The 2 piece PvE Combat Tech seems like a decent idea on paper also, with PT tanks using Explosive Fuel in their opener (according to Dulfy's guide.), but would the End losses be bad enough that you would be better off with the 2% Defence Chance? I'm purely spitballing here because, im trying to see what i should aim for with endgame gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChroniKill Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I'm thinking about the same question. The 2 set PvP year will reduce endurance and armour rating compared to some 72/78 year but will significantly increase the uptime on heat blast and therefore help keep your absorb high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel_Guy Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 So with the 4 piece Supercommando SB being counterproductive to PT Tanks, would it be advisable to take the 2 piece PvP Supercommando or the 2 piece PvE Combat Tech? Or would you lose enough End for it to be a bad idea? the 2 piece PvP Supercommando SB seems like a good idea on paper, but would the End losses and slight Aim loss be a counter to it's usefulness? The 2 piece PvE Combat Tech seems like a decent idea on paper also, with PT tanks using Explosive Fuel in their opener (according to Dulfy's guide.), but would the End losses be bad enough that you would be better off with the 2% Defence Chance? I'm purely spitballing here because, im trying to see what i should aim for with endgame gear. No. For PVE tanking use the 4 piece supercommando. The problem with procs only relying on shield chance is annoyance, but defense is not useless for powertechs (it is nowhere near the level like alacrity on pyro). On a few fights defense is very important and 2% free defense is too juicy to pass up (keep in mind it's also 2% resist chance) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelFluttershy Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The set bonuses for almost every class are either terrible or aren't really a bonus and more of a mandatory item to play your class. For example, Snipers need the PvE 4pc to play Lethality decently and Merc healers can't operate without their set bonuses in PvE. Marauder's PvE set bonus give a huge DPS increase while the PvE 4pc for Operatives (heal and DPS) isn't close to useful. A lot of the set bonuses feel like cop-outs or placeholders until BioWare can think of something better that isn't too good. On a whole, BioWare needs to take a good long look at set bonuses, not just Powertechs. However, I will state it's good you all are discussing them because this seems to be an understated point in the community. TL;DR All classes have awful set bonuses so everyone's needs to be reconsidered. Hopefully your discussion here will bring more attention to the lackluster set bonuses. No. For PVE tanking use the 4 piece supercommando. The problem with procs only relying on shield chance is annoyance, but defense is not useless for powertechs (it is nowhere near the level like alacrity on pyro). On a few fights defense is very important and 2% free defense is too juicy to pass up (keep in mind it's also 2% resist chance) As a Vanguard tank I can agree with Rebel_Guy on this. That 2% makes a big difference in Operations like DF where defense plays a big role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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