Brainstorming

[Fractalwave]

All of this would be moot if new pilots knew what was going on.

 

I have a solution to that. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=725249

 

Yep, but I don't think that's likely to happen any time soon.

[okiobe]

About powerups. I don't think their intention with them is to be a bolster for a losing team. It's to get people to explore the map and spread out the fighting or just to add variety to a one objective game mode.

 

I would not really mind if they got taken out but seeing as there are achievements for getting x number in a match I don't think they will be removed. I like the damage overcharge but I agree that one-shot kills are not fun. I wouldn't mind the damage percent being lowered for even having a flat added damage to each shot. The other powerups don't really give a huge advantage so I wouldn't change them.

 

On a more general sense I'm opposed to any major changes that try to slow down the game. I like the fast paced nature of it. As an extreme example: Making it so that weapons did so little damage that some one getting attacked had 10 second to react. That would make the game boring because there would really be no benefit to getting the jump on someone and if you got attacked you could rest easy knowing he couldn't burst you down.

[ptwonline]

In another thread,http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=725454, Zharik suggested:

 

 

 

This is an interesting idea.

 

Does anyone know if the exhaustion zone in GSF reduces health like it does in the ground game? If so, I don't see this as viable. If not, I still do not think this prevents gunships or anyone else from sitting right outside the spawn area/exhaustion zone and picking people off.

 

Here's my worry about the exhaustion zone idea:

 

The way that outmatched teams functioned before is that upon respawns, they were safe. This naturally led them to get some nearby help instead of charging/getting caught alone. Gunships (and other ships) would spawn and create a movable, growing buffer zone away from the cap ship, and allow the outmatched team to evenetually start fighting their way out on reasonably fair terms. This actually gave them a chance to do SOMETHING, even if they couldn't win. It was encouraging even for the losers.

 

The exhaustion zone idea doesn't necessarily allow the same thing since ships may have to move out before they have adequate support, leaving them very vulnerable like they are now without the guns. It would be BETTER than the current situation, but IMO still leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Personally, I LIKE the NPC gunners. it takes away the purity of the PvP fight, but IMO that purity is secondary in consideration to get and keep an actual player pool. PvP environments with the most PvE elements are often the most popular, and can help transition players to more hardcore PvP. The classic example is WoW's Alterac Valley.

Edited February 27, 2014 by ptwonline

[Fractalwave]

Personally, I LIKE the NPC gunners. it takes away the purity of the PvP fight, but IMO that purity is secondary in consideration to get and keep an actual player pool. PvP environments with the most PvE elements are often the most popular, and can help transition players to more hardcore PvP. The classic example is WoW's Alterac Valley.

 

You like the turrets turned on back the way it was with no changes?

[ptwonline]

You like the turrets turned on back the way it was with no changes?

 

No, but it is better than what we have now.

 

The problem with the turrets was the reports of leading teams sitting on their cap ships to cheese wins. That is a problem and needs to be addressed.

 

Losing teams using the cap ships as cover to group up and fight back and to a lesser extent for chased pilots to run for cover I think was ok. I wanted the cap ships moved further--or Gunships slowed down a bit--in order to make it harder for Gunships to run for cover so easily though.

Edited February 27, 2014 by ptwonline

[MrWoolie]

I have a rather interesting Idea, let players man the turrets.

So they aren't active unless some one turns them on, they should still be auto aiming however.

Of course, there should be a limit to how many players can play as turrets at any time.

[Fractalwave]

No, but it is better than what we have now.

 

The problem with the turrets was the reports of leading teams sitting on their cap ships to cheese wins. That is a problem and needs to be addressed.

 

Losing teams using the cap ships as cover to group up and fight back and to a lesser extent for chased pilots to run for cover I think was ok. I wanted the cap ships moved further--or Gunships slowed down a bit--in order to make it harder for Gunships to run for cover so easily though.

 

If engines are tweaked in upcoming updates, it might result in what you are looking for with the gunships running for cover better than moving the cap ships further out. I have one other idea though.

 

The lore and movies don't have capital ships one-shotting every fighter that comes within range. Leave the cap ships where they are. Turn the power down to the level of heavy lasers or satellite turrets.

 

• Remove the automatic one shot kill from cap ships.
  
  1. Give cap ships heavy lasers or turret lasers with the same range the ships have currently effectively reducing their hitting power
     
  2. Fighter has to be in the firing cone of the battery to get hit by it
     
  3. A single battery can target one ship at a time
     
  4. Give us the ability to see with our sensors the laser powering up to shoot at us
     

  [*]Overwhelming numbers of fighters can cripple a cap ship

  1. Give cap ships super heavy directional shields so the weapon used against their turrets needs to be shield piercing or draining until the shield is gone
     
  2. Newly spawned ships are protected behind the cap ship's shields (unless the shields have been disabled) until say... 5 secs after they start moving
     

 

This would make it possible to survive going into the cap ship's range of fire but you can't stay there indefinitely unless your squadron is making a coordinated attack on the capital ship. Pilots could still run to it for protection but the protection wouldn't be foolproof. People running into range without looking would start getting hit for being silly enough to run into the cap ship's range. Newly spawned ships have some protection. A lopsided match could turn into a coordinated attack on the capital ship.

 

Just turning the cap ship's laser batteries into heavy lasers so you are no longer one shot would make a huge difference in the game.

[Ramalina]

How about turning the the cap ship turrets in to railguns with 17500m range, but only 400 damage per shot and no shield piercing? You'd have to up the rate of fire a bit, maybe 1 shot/sec or something.

 

Idea being, encourage gunships to stay back a bit, don't extend protection far into playing field, but allow anyone with shields up some time to realize that they're in a bad place and get out.

 

Maybe make some portion of the turrets destructible but have a repair/respawn timer and maybe a few super heavy turrets.

 

The idea being to tune for a very stiff and discouraging defense, but one that can be overcome with high degrees of skill, numbers, and coordination.

 

I'm not sure the cap ship turret problem was really so much that the idea was bad as that they weren't well tuned.

 

Oh, and of course you'd want to give req for destroyed turrets, maybe achievements too. Why not offer the team with a crushing lead some challenging and tempting targets other than the newbs that they've been farming for the last few minutes?

 

Or possibly layers of defensive turrets. For example, 17500 m railguns x2, 15000 m railguns x2, Heavy lasers 7000 m range x 2, quad turrets 5000m x 4. So at long range there's a bit of plinking at you to warn you to back off, but up close it becomes a withering barrage.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Ramalina

[Gerfaut]

Turrets should not be re-added, as they encouraged spawn-camping, and every TDM game turned into a boring standoff where only gunships were getting kills. Now that turrets are gone, spawn-camping has almost disappeared on my server and the ship balance is getting better.

 

However, giving players some type of protection directly after respawn is reasonable. I see two fairly simple ways to do this. One has been suggested by various people before: add an exhaustion zone around the capital ships, or move the capital ships back into the exhaustion zone and give freshly spawned players a short-term buff to protect them from the effects of exhaustion.

 

Moving the capital ships back could be an issue for bombers, though. Capital ships are usually located in the middle of a wide open area with no cover, and bombers tend to get destroyed easily when they are in the open. Moving the ships further away would increase the distance that bombers have to cross before getting to any kind of cover.

 

I think there is an even simpler way to protect players at respawn: give every player a 10-second immunity to damage after respawn or until they interact with their primary or secondary weapons. There is already a system like that in game. I remember during the holiday event, if I tried to throw a snowball at someone whose toon had just finished loading on fleet, I couldn't hit them (I would get an error message saying they were immune) and they would have a buff icon on them saying something about immunity. As soon as they started moving or interacting with their toon, the buff would disappear and I could throw a snowball at them. It would be a similar concept, so hopefully it shouldn't be too hard to implement. The immunity should be removed before the 10 seconds are over if the player tries to interact with weapons (not just if they actually hit someone), so that gunships wouldn't be able to fully load their railgun while immune to damage.

[Sidenti]

In order, paragraph by paragraph:

 

Turrets should not be re-added, as they encouraged spawn-camping, and every TDM game turned into a boring standoff where only gunships were getting kills. Now that turrets are gone, spawn-camping has almost disappeared on my server and the ship balance is getting better.

 

Then yours must be the only server. Have you seen what Ebon Hawk is doing lately? They're doing REAL spawn camping. Like parking bombers and gunners over midspawn and shuttling to camp the other two.

 

THAT'S spawn-camping, by the by. What you're complaining about is victory camping and, again, it may have only been an issue on your server. Ebon Hawk pilots, by and large, are well-versed at breaking victory camp attempts.

 

However, giving players some type of protection directly after respawn is reasonable. I see two fairly simple ways to do this. One has been suggested by various people before: add an exhaustion zone around the capital ships, or move the capital ships back into the exhaustion zone and give freshly spawned players a short-term buff to protect them from the effects of exhaustion.

 

That's kinda what the turrets were for pre-"strike". Just sayin'. But for the sake of discussion, how would you propose to preemptively counteract fighters abusing the exhaustion-zone buff on spawn to get free shots in at opposing pilots?

 

Moving the capital ships back could be an issue for bombers, though. Capital ships are usually located in the middle of a wide open area with no cover, and bombers tend to get destroyed easily when they are in the open. Moving the ships further away would increase the distance that bombers have to cross before getting to any kind of cover.

 

And gunships. And stock anything-that-isn't-a-scout. By the way - do you fly anything other than a Scout regularly? Simple curiosity.

 

I think there is an even simpler way to protect players at respawn: give every player a 10-second immunity to damage after respawn or until they interact with their primary or secondary weapons. There is already a system like that in game. I remember during the holiday event, if I tried to throw a snowball at someone whose toon had just finished loading on fleet, I couldn't hit them (I would get an error message saying they were immune) and they would have a buff icon on them saying something about immunity. As soon as they started moving or interacting with their toon, the buff would disappear and I could throw a snowball at them. It would be a similar concept, so hopefully it shouldn't be too hard to implement. The immunity should be removed before the 10 seconds are over if the player tries to interact with weapons (not just if they actually hit someone), so that gunships wouldn't be able to fully load their railgun while immune to damage.

 

Look, at this point, I'm just going to suggest you run for Congress. -bp

[SwiftDuck]

Fix free look!