The_Raven_Lord Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Reactors are great because they increase your survivability. Armor is a little eh since the evasion nerf, because nothing really provides huge benefits to the scout, but it's better than nothing. Capacitor is similar because the command ships are supposed to be support-based, so I'd be willing to trade it away for some kind of mobility. Sensors are a joke on every ship except a hit-and-run novadive, because sensor dampening doesn't do anything within 15 km and there's never a situation where increased sensor or communications radius does much of anything. Would definitely trade away, unless they suddenly introduce the possibility of threats appearing far away and closing in on you... but even then, default communication radius and sensor radius is so massive on every ship that you really don't get much benefit from the minor component. Thanks for that! I added as an after thought to my above post that I think it needs more combat oriented options to be in line with the other scouts, having the option for all the support tools is all fine and dandy, but as others have said, I feel this thing will be useless for solo play unless you can build it to be able to fight like the other scouts and keep up with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Communication sensors are surprising in their power, enabling you to see across the entire map in some cases. Range sensors are helpful for putting enemies on the map a bit before they otherwise would have been. Both are useful. But you are correct, obviously neither compares with thrusters, one of the top components. More importantly, I don't think they are SUPPOSED to compete with thrusters here- the ship is supposed to miss the 10% max speed or turning radius that his more lightly encumbered brothers have, for both strike and scout. I think it's fair to say that the Type 3 Strike's system options are generally superior to "swap between weapons", for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) Repair Drone - Would if I could, but without DF, this thing is just cannon fodder. This is pointless to put on a scout, reliable support bombers already do this. I feel like the intention is to make a more 'rapid response' ship, able to generally keep pace with other scouts and strikes when compared to the lumbering bombers that take forever to get anywhere. More of a TDM support thing than domination, but still otherwise able to shift between satelites and generally lend support wherever it's needed. Hence repair drone. The problem I have - assuming this is actually their intended purpose - is that repair drone has such an incredibly long cooldown for what it does (and can't move once deployed) that it's just not suited for that kind of back-and-forth mobile gameplay. If it was an alternate version, say with a significantly shorter lifespan but much lower cooldown it might work better, but if it's just the same one bombers have I don't really see the point. Edited February 27, 2014 by Bleeters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slivovidze Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Umm, guys... One question. Any clues, ideas, about WHEN are they coming? I like the scout and I think I will use it. A lot. On pugging. I'm already looking forward to the experiments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 If they stick to their year planner, 2.7 should hit early Aprilish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slivovidze Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) If they stick to their year planner, 2.7 should hit early Aprilish. Indeed, but 2.7 says nothing about new ships, new ships are mentioned only in 2.8, along the new ship role. So, June, it is? Edited February 27, 2014 by Slivovidze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I was largely just going on what data mining had turned up, but maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramalina Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Look like they're meant to be flown by smart pilots and in formation with other strikes or scouts. I think they'll have to keep a bit more of an eye out for gunships than the more mobile scouts and strikes. Properly employed, and matched with suitable wings, they may be able to make a 4 ship group about as powerful as a 5 - 6 ship group would be without a command ship. Unlikely to be used effectively outside of groups that practice flying together and have VOIP of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Kelvar Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) That's actually what I found interesting. It says flat out in the Clarion's description that its secondary weapons are more suited for heavily armored or stationary objectives. It flat out doesn't make sense in current game modes. It's why the second gunship type is laughed at. Bombers are too apt to take cover, and turrets aren't robust enough to require a dedicated assault platform. Perhaps this might be some kind of hint at some kind of siege/assault mode? In current modes aoe buff/debuffs are slightly useful in domination, not particularly useful at all in deathmatch. Almost makes you wonder if they might be useful tools for some mechanic in another mode. Perhaps an infiltrator to sneak in and sabotage while the command ships prep an assault group for a run? Yeah, still only really useful for coordinated group, but I can dream, can't I? Indeed but I still don't get why you'd pick Thermites over protons since they'd basically be used for the same thing and my impression is that protons are better. Concussions would, IMO, make more sense since it would give a more distinct choice that also has more flexibility in the role that the ship can play. If they're meant to be heavy assault ships I think they should also get heavy cannons since right now it's kinda weird that 2/3 of their blaster weapons are designed for dogfighting not heavy assault. I'd also say that the ship systems should provide some sort of passive buff not just be an active so that the Type 3 striker isn't as reliant on allies (for example the accuracy buffing system could provide a 10% passive buff to accuracy or the repair giving a moderate buff to shield regen or a small passive hull repair). I really don't get the sensors though since strikers have never been suited for scouting and IMO thrusters would be much more useful in improving their combat capabilities so as not to rely on allies too heavily. I think there is certainly potential but they still need tweaking to be more offensive oriented and not primarily a support ship that relies on the quality of their allies to survive/impact the game. Edited February 27, 2014 by Gavin_Kelvar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Look like they're meant to be flown by smart pilots and in formation with other strikes or scouts. I think they'll have to keep a bit more of an eye out for gunships than the more mobile scouts and strikes. Properly employed, and matched with suitable wings, they may be able to make a 4 ship group about as powerful as a 5 - 6 ship group would be without a command ship. Unlikely to be used effectively outside of groups that practice flying together and have VOIP of some sort. unfortunately that's not likely to happen as it currently is, the new ships lack the required speed and maneuverability needed to stay with or get back to said wing to lend support... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) unfortunately that's not likely to happen as it currently is, the new ships lack the required speed and maneuverability needed to stay with or get back to said wing to lend support...[/QUOTe] Eh, +30% movement speed or 15% and 2 engine power a second for 24 seconds every minute from tensor field is a pretty significant boost. Barrel roll is supposedly getting nerfed reasonably hard anyway. The lack of thrusters sucks, course, but I've gotten by as a scout with turning before. Edited February 27, 2014 by Bleeters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Kelvar Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Eh, +30% movement speed or 15% and 2 engine power a second for 24 seconds every minute from tensor field is a pretty significant boost. Barrel roll is supposedly getting nerfed reasonably hard anyway. The lack of thrusters sucks, course, but I've gotten by as a scout with turning before. I think it will be more of a problem for strikers since they're pretty notorious for lacking mobility. Since they don't have the base sensor stats or mobility to make good recon fighters I don't really see why they're getting the sensor component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 yeah i'm looking at Tuning Field and Interdiction Drive to make up for the difference, maybe i can make this thing work, we'll see, i hope so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramalina Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Part of coordinated flying is keeping the group together. Meaning if you're in the command ship you might not be doing much other than carefully managing engine power and making sure to use the right cooldowns at the ideal moment. If you're part of the rest of the flight, then it means sticking close enough to the command ship to support it and be in range when the cooldowns are triggered. Chasing the PUG mob and trying to catch them in the radius of a cooldown when it will do some good? Probably not impossible, but I suspect a command ship will underperform in that situation. Weapons systems designed to take advantage of coordinated maneuvers tend to do better when there are coordinated maneuvers to take advantage of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Part of coordinated flying is keeping the group together. Meaning if you're in the command ship you might not be doing much other than carefully managing engine power and making sure to use the right cooldowns at the ideal moment. I question whether that will be more effective than simply having another fighter, even in a coordinated group. I mean, in a coordinated group, you're probably going to win anyway, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Kelvar Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Part of coordinated flying is keeping the group together. Meaning if you're in the command ship you might not be doing much other than carefully managing engine power and making sure to use the right cooldowns at the ideal moment. If you're part of the rest of the flight, then it means sticking close enough to the command ship to support it and be in range when the cooldowns are triggered. Chasing the PUG mob and trying to catch them in the radius of a cooldown when it will do some good? Probably not impossible, but I suspect a command ship will underperform in that situation. Agreed. If they lack the mobility to keep up with pugs they will underperform. I've seen how bombers get ripped apart when they have no fighter escort and suspect that if the new Type 3s are too oriented towards support and not oriented enough towards offense they'll get picked apart too. I think if we were talking about a new bomber design sitting back and monitoring cooldowns and managing your power would potentially be viable. But IMO since scouts and strikers are frontline ships the Type 3s will be right in the thick of it and thus need to be able to hold their own against the Type 1 & 2 scouts/strikers. Currently I don't think they'll necessarily be able to do that as well as they should or will need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Raven_Lord Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) IMO since scouts and strikers are frontline ships the Type 3s will be right in the thick of it and thus need to be able to hold their own against the Type 1 & 2 scouts/strikers. Currently I don't think they'll necessarily be able to do that as well as they should or will need to. I agree. What's the point of a front line support craft that doesn't have the tools needed to participate or even survive in that environment? This obvious needs to be tested very thoroughly on the PTR, and then very thoroughly dismissed when it's proven to be the cannon fodder that I predict it will become. Edited February 28, 2014 by The_Raven_Lord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceGanon Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 So, there's a few more GSF changes that I don't really think are worthy of a new topic so I'm adding them here. There's a Sensor Dampening nerf that to me is coming out of nowhere. I don't really see the point of that... they don't seem to help much anyways. K-52 Gunships, Comet Breaker and the Dustmaker are getting Thermite Torpedo. That also doesn't make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 So, there's a few more GSF changes that I don't really think are worthy of a new topic so I'm adding them here. There's a Sensor Dampening nerf that to me is coming out of nowhere. I don't really see the point of that... they don't seem to help much anyways. That's only from the minor component, though, right? The component that's only available to ships that don't really need dampening because they'll be within 15 km of an enemy most of the time? I mean, I don't see a point to it either, but if it makes them feel better to muck around with not-very-useful components... K-52 Gunships, Comet Breaker and the Dustmaker are getting Thermite Torpedo. That also doesn't make sense to me. Nothing about those ships makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta_V Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 That's only from the minor component, though, right? The component that's only available to ships that don't really need dampening because they'll be within 15 km of an enemy most of the time? I mean, I don't see a point to it either, but if it makes them feel better to muck around with not-very-useful components... That may be a prelude to them fixing Dampening so it works under 15k. They might be nerfing it so maxed-dampening gunships aren't so hilariously broken. *shudders at memories of gunships on the PTS* Nothing about those ships makes sense to me. Yeah, the addition of Directional Shields helped a little, but they're still.... I don't even know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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