Why do people care so much about subscription numbers?

[Andryah]

So, in all seriousness, who cares???

 

Mostly it is people with a need to prosecute their personal frustrations with an MMO via passive aggressive memes. Sub numbers are one of those popular passive aggressive memes. And a fruitful meme it is for them in the modern era where actual data on sub numbers is hard to come by other then broad brush strokes, so they can make up numbers on their own... pitch them a alleged facts and then demand others prove them wrong.

 

On a broader theme level.... epeening over sub numbers follows established human tribal tendencies toward an aggressive Us VS Them mind set. It feeds the reptile brain that operates as a subset of the human brain.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Andryah

[EzioMessi]

What matters is number of active players, playing the segments of content you personally like.

 

Of course... any persons particular "like" in terms of content is another persons anathema. Which illustrates that subscriber numbers, or even active player numbers (a more accurate metric for a hybrid access model game) are largely meaningless at a personal level. It's a very diverse and fractional player base in any MMO these days, so just because there are a truckload of active players does not mean you particular pet content will represent instant play and zero queues.

 

Yes, obviously there are plenty of F2P who, say solely buy Warzone passes and do just warzones, or do the same with just Operations. Or just Flashpoints. Or just GSF. Maybe they're crazy enough to pay Cartel Coins for 2 of those 4.

 

But subs have access to all content. And (contrary to forum belief) the majority of the subs both PvP and PvE (at worst they do one very seriously and one casually). The fact is, lesser subs equals lesser overall players playing everything.

[Andryah]

The fact is, lesser subs equals lesser overall players playing everything.

 

No Ezio, that is your opinion, presented as though it is fact.

 

 

Here.... I'll return the favor with an opinion of mine, gleaned anecdotally from years of MMO game play:

 

1) Most subs do a variety of things. A small minority probably do everything in game.

 

2) Same is true for Preferred players (which is probably the majority of non-sub players). And yes, those that I personally know in game that run Preferred... DO BUY Content Unlocks and Passes.

 

3) True F2P... who cares really...since they choose to play strictly the free side of the game.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Andryah

[EzioMessi]

No Ezio, that is your opinion, presented as though it is fact.

 

 

Here.... I'll return the favor with an opinion of mine, gleaned anecdotally from years of MMO game play:

 

1) Most subs do a variety of things. A small minority probably do everything in game.

 

We're saying the same thing right? Most subs do more than just one small specific part of the game. Pretty much everyone I know is both a casual PvEr and a hardcore PvPer along with the occasional casual RP.

 

2) Same is true for Preferred players (which is probably the majority of non-sub players). And yes, those that I personally know in game that run Preferred... DO BUY Content Unlocks and Passes.

 

But think about it. If they are like the players in point (1), then they are paying way, way too much money to play everything. Imagine if they do both Warzones and Operations. They either have to grind credits at the rate of about 250k per week, or pay 500 CCs per week to have their quota of fun.

 

250k is obviously nothing at all. But that leaves little room for F2Pers to buy other items like dyes, armor, and ~gasp~ augmenting their gear.

 

So if a player is an active player who does a variety of things, he's much more likely to be a sub than an F2P. Obviously, there are a few who might (for whatever reason) continue in Preferred status while being active players. But most active players who keep our queues alive are subscribers.

 

3) True F2P... who cares really...since they choose to play strictly the free side of the game.

 

Agreed. No one cares about their stuff. If spending $5 is far too much for someone, they have their priorities wrong and should be looking for a job or something.

Edited February 23, 2014 by EzioMessi

[Hambunctious]

Subscribers = long term, dedicated, and usually, quality players. For the most part they're also the backbone of a healthier community.

 

A larger percentage of the rest are less of the above to some degree.

 

This is only a guess, but I would bet that subscribers are willing to spend more money on the game than the average non-subscriber as well.

[magecutter]

hmm.... not even sure where to start

 

I have not noticed any whining about sub's or sub numbers in this thread.

the discussion has been why sub numbers and players knowing these numbers may possibly matter to the average player. (at least up to and including my last post... where the topic has gone to now is another question entirely - )

 

are there a multitude of reasons why a queue may or may not pop as fast as some would like?... obviously.

(I used the queue pop as an example, nothing more nothing less. try not to get too hung up on it).

 

this is a multi-player game with a ton of solo content. I think those who dislike a "crowded game" are in a safe place.

 

epeen? a stupid term to describe something we all do, always have, always will. (my post is better than your post... my opinion trumps your opinion.... (song lyrics.. "anything you can do I can do better, anything you can do I can do too... no you can't, yes I can, yes I can, yes I caaan!!!! - ) nothing more than another form of self validation... get over it.

 

if anyone actually bothered to read and comprehend my earlier post you might see I owned the statements I made and how Ezio's post changed my thinking on the question.

 

asserting what other people may or may not think, feel or do as a bases for your opinion is flatly absurd.

I speak for me, you speak for you, none of us speak for "other people" (a pedantic statement of what should be glaringly obvious imo).

 

too many other off topic points to bother responding to... so... be well all and take care -

[branmakmuffin]

Agreed. No one cares about their stuff. If spending $5 is far too much for someone, they have their priorities wrong and should be looking for a job or something.

Playing a game for free means they have their priorities wrong? Maybe they just feel the game is good enough play for free but not good enough to even "waste" $5 on. IOW, you have no idea why someone might choose to play as pure F2P.

[EzioMessi]

Playing a game for free means they have their priorities wrong? Maybe they just feel the game is good enough play for free but not good enough to even "waste" $5 on. IOW, you have no idea why someone might choose to play as pure F2P.

 

Probably should have been more specific. If someone is an active, but pure F2Per, due to long term economic issues, then they have their priorities wrong.

 

Obviously nothing wrong with just not liking the game enough to pay for it.

Edited February 23, 2014 by EzioMessi

[branmakmuffin]

Probably should have been more specific. If someone is an active, but pure F2Per, due to long term economic issues, then they have their priorities wrong.

So they should not play a game if they can't afford to subscribe to it?

 

[Xdancp]

So they should not play a game if they can't afford to subscribe to it?

 

 

No they shouldn't play a game if they can't afford to sub to it. All MMO's back in the day (EQ, AC, DAOC, UO) had only monthly subs, and if someone couldn't afford that, they wouldn't be able to play. Now, you didn't say THIS game, you said A game. If that game only has a sub (ESO, FF14) and they can't afford it, they shouldn't play it. If it is F2P or has a F2P option, like this game, then sure, they can play it but they won't get the optimal experience.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Xdancp

[EzioMessi]

So they should not play a game if they can't afford to subscribe to it?

 

 

No I was talking about the $5 purchase needed to become Preferred status, not a sub. If someone's so poor they can't afford a $5 payment, they shouldn't be sitting on their asses and playing all day.

 

I know that may sound insensitive towards people who may be poor due to conditions out of their hands, but whatever. I think you get my point.

[kirorx]

I play a variety of MMOs and pretty much all of them with the exception of WoW have less subscribers than SWTOR. I feel like as long as there are people around to do stuff with, like flashpoints, heroics, warzones, etc. then what does it matter if SWTOR has 500k subs or 10 million? I mean, from a player point of view. BioWare obviously needs to be concerned about the numbers but not us.

 

For example, I can play SWTOR or DCUO or TSW or Tera and be in zones buzzing with activity and those games have anywhere from 200k-500k subs, and of course that doesn't count how many F2P players there are. Meanwhile, I can play WoW, a game with about 9 million subs and literally go HOURS without seeing a single person depending on the server.

 

So, in all seriousness, who cares???

 

I agree with you

 

I played SWG and we ha very small numbers at the end but in all honesty it did not bother me

 

Heck if anything the small population and the 2 character per server limit really helped the community

 

People got along, you couldnt really be a dirtbag or else you would be stuck playing alone

It was fun loading in a seeing characters hanging around the cantina that you know and recognized, not just by name but by there armor

 

So IMO as long we have enough people to play with I don't really care

 

I am sure there are financial issues but I would pretend to know what they truly need, the IP is probably very expensive but SWG managed to stick it out for 10 years and we got major updates toward the end still

Again I don't work for these people so I don't really know, nor do I care

 

As a consumer if I can play...I will pay 8)

Edited February 24, 2014 by kirorx

[branmakmuffin]

No I was talking about the $5 purchase needed to become Preferred status, not a sub. If someone's so poor they can't afford a $5 payment, they shouldn't be sitting on their asses and playing all day.

How do you know they are sitting on their "asses" all day? You're just assuming.

 

"If you don't make enough money and choose to pay at least $5 to play a computer game, you should not be allowed to play that game."

 

That's what you're saying.

[annabethchase]

How do you know they are sitting on their "asses" all day? You're just assuming.

 

"If you don't make enough money and choose to pay at least $5 to play a computer game, you should not be allowed to play that game."

 

That's what you're saying.

 

Yes, if you don't choose to pay $5 you should not be able to play the game beyond an introductory experience. I can't see more than the trailer for a movie for free, I can leaf through a few pages of a book at the store for free, I can possibly get a 1 bite sample for free at a restaurant, but I cannot get the real experience for free.

 

Playing this as a F2P for more than an intro experience is basically like reading a magazine as much as you want and then not paying for it. It's not illegal or even likely to result in you being asked to stop, but it's still a cheap move that earns you my disrespect.

[branmakmuffin]

Yes, if you don't choose to pay $5 you should not be able to play the game beyond an introductory experience

When you make the annabethchaseMMO, you can make it work however you want.

[Elfa]

People care about subscription numbers? It's news to me. The only people I ever see talk about sub numbers are the ones looking to discredit or hate on the MMO.

[annabethchase]

When you make the annabethchaseMMO, you can make it work however you want.

 

Do you believe this game is currently optimizing it's revenue? I don't. I believe there is substantially more money on the table with a large paid for expansion focusing on continuing the story than there is with things like GSF. But that's just me speaking from what I've observed in every MMO ever.

[Arkerus]

Do you believe this game is currently optimizing it's revenue? I don't. I believe there is substantially more money on the table with a large paid for expansion focusing on continuing the story than there is with things like GSF. But that's just me speaking from what I've observed in every MMO ever.

 

 

Forum goer claims they aren't optimizing their revenue. EA accountants and financial experts be damned. This forum person figured it all out.

 

Someone call EA, quick.

[branmakmuffin]

Do you believe this game is currently optimizing it's revenue?

I have no idea. But do I care? No.

 

I don't. I believe there is substantially more money on the table with a large paid for expansion focusing on continuing the story than there is with things like GSF. But that's just me speaking from what I've observed in every MMO ever.

Who cares? The game will eventually shut down. If it's fun to play, play it. If it's not fun to play, stop playing it. It's a computer game, not a visit to the ER.

Edited February 24, 2014 by branmakmuffin

[CosmicKat]

People care about subscription numbers? It's news to me. The only people I ever see talk about sub numbers are the ones looking to discredit or hate on the MMO.

 

Yeah. Because everyone knows....

 

If there's a problem, ignore it. If ignoring it doesn't work, spin things to make the problem magically vanish, even when all evidence points to the opposite.

 

TOR contracted servers by 90+%. Even with a 3 to 1 increase in capacity of those servers, that's still a reduction of player capacity of 70+% from initial launch capacity.... and that's not even counting the shut down of APAC servers. With all that reduction in capacity... There has been no need to increase capacity. It went F2P. Still no new servers, and still the Defenders claim huge (and largely invisible) increases in player numbers. Smoke and mirrors. The Ostrich maneuver.

 

The first step in fixing a problem is acknowledging it exists. That's why player numbers are important. Sub numbers are important because they are stable income. F2P players could all vanish tomorrow so their existence doesn't even count to long term planning.

[branmakmuffin]

The first step in fixing a problem is acknowledging it exists. That's why player numbers are important. Sub numbers are important because they are stable income. F2P players could all vanish tomorrow so their existence doesn't even count to long term planning.

Important to BWEA. Maybe important to players for whom a large (or small) player base is an important consideration in game selection. Important to current players? Not for any rational reason other than idle curiosity.

Edited February 24, 2014 by branmakmuffin

[Geigerette]

I'm a brand new player! I tried the free to play a bit less than a week ago, and after trying out a bounty hunter and then an imperial agent, I was a bit hooked! I ended up signing up for reoccurring subscription and even spent a little in the cartel market.

 

I don't care about the subscription numbers, but I do understand that a healthy population contributes to a games healthy future. I only wish I had tried this game a long time ago rather than clinging to a ghost of another game and trying out a few others along the way.

 

I am looking forward to an extended stay here in the Star Wars galaxies. ^.^

[annabethchase]

Forum goer claims they aren't optimizing their revenue. EA accountants and financial experts be damned. This forum person figured it all out.

 

Someone call EA, quick.

 

I am a Certified Public Accountant and do understand these things. We're talking about an investment that could easily be 100 million, but that doesn't mean it's not worth it.

 

Also, I have been an EA investor at times. Currently I'm not holding a position, but I did take one up when F2P launched as that was a good financial decision at the time. Now, the next good decision would be a major expansion or even new game.

Edited February 24, 2014 by annabethchase

[annabethchase]

I'm a brand new player! I tried the free to play a bit less than a week ago, and after trying out a bounty hunter and then an imperial agent, I was a bit hooked! I ended up signing up for reoccurring subscription and even spent a little in the cartel market.

 

I don't care about the subscription numbers, but I do understand that a healthy population contributes to a games healthy future. I only wish I had tried this game a long time ago rather than clinging to a ghost of another game and trying out a few others along the way.

 

I am looking forward to an extended stay here in the Star Wars galaxies. ^.^

 

Welcome aboard! This is exactly what Free to Play is for, to try it out and see what it's like.

[annabethchase]

Important to BWEA. Maybe important to players for whom a large (or small) player base is an important consideration in game selection. Important to current players? Not for any rational reason other than idle curiosity.

 

And que times. But to be fair, que times are quite low right now on everything. So it is looking so much better than a year ago.