Jeweledleah Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) You could just level two more characters to level 40 during double XP weekend and not waste your time trying to convince other people that their ideals are wrong. Sure, giving you class buffs up front for 600-1000 cartel coins might net them a little cash (provided you don't already have the coins saved up from an allotment, in which case they make zero profit) but they'll lose a lot more money than you'll give them just by me cancelling my own accounts. seriously? you would cancel your accounts solely becasue someone out there will be able to buff themselves without having to rely on other people and not having to waste time playing characters they don't enjoy? really? how does that affect your game in any way that someone else out there can get that buff - not achievements, not characters, not presence, nothing but ability to buff themselves.... essentially you would be cutting off your nose to spite the face. stopping to play the game that you presumably enjoy becasue someone out there, bought access to a buff that you could STILl get the old fashioned way. oh the horror... whenever I pvp, I refresh that buff on other people becasue it costs me nothing and it helps a tiny bit. not a lot.... just a tiny bit.... sometimes I just randomly buff people out in a world too. considering how many times I tabbed out in variety of places to tab back in to my own buffs refreshed? I'm not the only one that does that. and f2p does have access to all the legacy unlocks, they just can't buy some of them with in game credits, but they CAN buy them with cartel coins. they are NOT restricted from it. oh noes.... pay to win. by your definition, this game is ALREADY pay to win, since by paying subscription you get access to holding more credits, faster leveling, faster rep gain, unlimited group content etc, something you don't have as f2p or even preferred. hell - cartel market galactic starfighter ships are probably the closest this game gets to pay to win, since original introduction of lvl 7 ship upgrades... since CC ships come with boost to requisition gain, etc. ability to buff yourself instead of relying on someone else to do it for you? doesn't even qualify. Edited February 24, 2014 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prototypemind Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 seriously? you would cancel your accounts solely becasue someone out there will be able to buff themselves without having to rely on other people and not having to waste time playing characters they don't enjoy? really? how does that affect your game in any way that someone else out there can get that buff - not achievements, not characters, not presence, nothing but ability to buff themselves.... essentially you would be cutting off your nose to spite the face. stopping to play the game that you presumably enjoy becasue someone out there, bought access to a buff that you could STILl get the old fashioned way. oh the horror... whenever I pvp, I refresh that buff on other people becasue it costs me nothing and it helps a tiny bit. not a lot.... just a tiny bit.... sometimes I just randomly buff people out in a world too. considering how many times I tabbed out in variety of places to tab back in to my own buffs refreshed? I'm not the only one that does that. and f2p does have access to all the legacy unlocks, they just can't buy some of them with in game credits, but they CAN buy them with cartel coins. they are NOT restricted from it. oh noes.... pay to win. by your definition, this game is ALREADY pay to win, since by paying subscription you get access to holding more credits, faster leveling, faster rep gain, unlimited group content etc, something you don't have as f2p or even preferred. hell - cartel market galactic starfighter ships are probably the closest this game gets to pay to win, since original introduction of lvl 7 ship upgrades... since CC ships come with boost to requisition gain, etc. ability to buff yourself instead of relying on someone else to do it for you? doesn't even qualify. What Subs get is what is standard for the game. It's not pay to win, it's simply getting your due. Preferred and f2p have reduced features. I'm quite sure that as silly as it would seem to you if this addition is put in a number of people would leave the game, and it would not offset the few who are willing to pay CCs for one-time buff unlocks. Not sure why it's so difficult to earn the buffs. As others said, perhaps next we can pay to unlock 450 crew skills at anytime, and on and on until you're not playing the game anymore, but just spending cash on unlocks that should be earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) What Subs get is what is standard for the game. It's not pay to win, it's simply getting your due. Preferred and f2p have reduced features. I'm quite sure that as silly as it would seem to you if this addition is put in a number of people would leave the game, and it would not offset the few who are willing to pay CCs for one-time buff unlocks. Not sure why it's so difficult to earn the buffs. As others said, perhaps next we can pay to unlock 450 crew skills at anytime, and on and on until you're not playing the game anymore, but just spending cash on unlocks that should be earned. 1. its not the same thing. you cannot get a crew skill buff from other players. you CAN get a full class buff from them though. 2. some people don't enjoy certain classes. some people have limited time to play. 3. subscription is payment monthly. its not free. its not given to you. you cannot remove subscription costs through game play (like for example in EVE or upcoming Wildstar) so... by your definition? its pay to win. 4. you completely ignored my examples of items sold in cartel market that actualy give people direct personal advantage in game play. hell, I can even add lvl 10 - 41 to stat crystals to it. and those are not subscription exclusive, and both f2p and subscribers end up paying the same for them. that's the thing with buffs. in order to get all 4, especially in group content? you don't need to do anything, or pay anything. other people will buff you. its pretty much a certainty. you may go a short period of time without, but as long as you keep grouping or run into other people while soloing? you'll probably have it. all this unlock will do is allow people to pay money for a guarantee of having these buffs at all time, without needing to play classes they don't enjoy. which guess what? happens. you still keep achievements for finishing chapters. you won't be able to unlock those with a proposed system. its no different from paying what was it... 20 dollars to get Treek at any legacy level?, vs lvl 40 legacy you need to have, to get her with in game currency. hell - unlocking faster quick travel and zero cooldown fleet pass gives players more of an advantage than class buffs, and its an advantage you cannot possibly get by asking someone else to buff you or getting a random drive by buff. Edited February 24, 2014 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vemerce Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) 1. its not the same thing. you cannot get a crew skill buff from other players. you CAN get a full class buff from them though. 2. some people don't enjoy certain classes. some people have limited time to play. 3. subscription is payment monthly. its not free. its not given to you. you cannot remove subscription costs through game play (like for example in EVE or upcoming Wildstar) so... by your definition? its pay to win. 4. you completely ignored my examples of items sold in cartel market that actualy give people direct personal advantage in game play. hell, I can even add lvl 10 - 41 to stat crystals to it. and those are not subscription exclusive, and both f2p and subscribers end up paying the same for them. that's the thing with buffs. in order to get all 4, especially in group content? you don't need to do anything, or pay anything. other people will buff you. its pretty much a certainty. you may go a short period of time without, but as long as you keep grouping or run into other people while soloing? you'll probably have it. all this unlock will do is allow people to pay money for a guarantee of having these buffs at all time, without needing to play classes they don't enjoy. which guess what? happens. you still keep achievements for finishing chapters. you won't be able to unlock those with a proposed system. its no different from paying what was it... 20 dollars to get Treek at any legacy level?, vs lvl 40 legacy you need to have, to get her with in game currency. hell - unlocking faster quick travel and zero cooldown fleet pass gives players more of an advantage than class buffs, and its an advantage you cannot possibly get by asking someone else to buff you or getting a random drive by buff. Yes, but the entire game is not based around "group content". As stated by the original poster, in war zones you often times have to beg people to cast that buff on you. Even when they do, when you die, you lose it. Having the ability to cast those buffs on the fly is something that must be earned, just like every other PvP advantage. Therefore, selling class buffs in the cash shop would definitely be the first step in a pay to win system, offering people a way to hand over cash in exchange for a tactical (not cosmetic like races) advantage others had to earn. So yes. The day they introduce that into the cash shop, they lose my $30 per month for both accounts. And I guarantee you that I wouldn't be alone in feeling that way. It's not so much the selling of buffs itself, as it is a principal of not selling anything that gives a competitive advantage. That would be the first step and I would certainly jump ship rather than wait to see what else they do to sink the game. Treek and XP potions, etc.. Are things that effect solo and PvE game play. I don't directly support Treek, but I didn't buy Treek either and have the option of not having Treek at all. I don't have the option of opting out of war zones where people bought class buffs and didn't work to earn them like I have to. (And there's still 1 I don't even have, but as much as I hate my Trooper and Bounty Hunter, I'm going to work for it.) The crystals I'll admit were a pay to win feature, but they were already available with in-game credits to collection edition holders, so adding a cash shop route only evened the playing field for people that weren't CE owners. As players part of our job is monitoring what is and is not allowed to be sold in this game. Pay to win is something I refuse to support. I don't have the direct control to stop BioWare from putting it in this game, but if they do, rest assured I'll be voting with my money. Edited February 24, 2014 by vemerce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) sigh.. just one thing. you do realize that ability of people to use buffs on themselves without depending on other people will benefit you as well? since those could be people on YOUR team without buffs, giving YOU a disadvantage? (which is why I always ALWAYS buff in war zones without people begging for it, because - hey, guess what. its my team I'm buffing, not the enemies, but if you would rather make your own life pointlessly harder... I don't know what else to tell you) its NOT. pay to win. its something that is readily available in game and its something you can get from other players regardless. its in NO WAY pay to win. pay to win would be ... lets see... buying a galactic star fighter ship that is better than the stock ship you get from in game. pay to win would be if that was the ONLY way to get that ship. but even still - you can already buy competitive advantage in a cash shop. ooops. time to cancel your subscription? Edited February 24, 2014 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I disagree. I still don't have all the buffs yet but I still have characters yet to level. Just for the record you don't have to play the other side for buffs. You can have just imperial or just republic and have all the class buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I disagree. I still don't have all the buffs yet but I still have characters yet to level. Just for the record you don't have to play the other side for buffs. You can have just imperial or just republic and have all the class buffs. but having those buffs doesn't stop you from leveling those characters >_> at least it didn't stop me, or a boatload of people i know who unlocked those buffs practically the day legacy was introduced and yet keep leveling alts becasue they ... novel concept - like playing alts. and what about someone who doesn't enjoy playing force users. or only likes playing force users. etc etc. does ability to buy species unlock stop you from leveling a character of that species? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 but having those buffs doesn't stop you from leveling those characters >_> at least it didn't stop me, or a boatload of people i know who unlocked those buffs practically the day legacy was introduced and yet keep leveling alts becasue they ... novel concept - like playing alts. and what about someone who doesn't enjoy playing force users. or only likes playing force users. etc etc. does ability to buy species unlock stop you from leveling a character of that species? I will still disagree and no I will not argue with you. I have stated my opinion and you have stated yours. Arguing over an opinion is pointless as I will not change mine nor will you change yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prototypemind Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Not really as I stated earlier spent 50 dollars this week alone on the CM....hm now I know you were probably educated during the Bush administration but even George W. Bush knows that, 50$ in one week is great than 15$ a month. And statistics will show that people who buy on the CM are not one time shoppers If this game ever becomes solely supported by the cash shop it will die. You may have spent $50 this month, and heck, you may spend $50 every month, but there are a lot of subs who spend money on the CM regularly as well who would jump ship if pay to win foolishness like this gets implemented. So what if every class doesn't appeal to everyone or there's limited time to play the game? That's part of any MMO/RPG gaming. Some things have to be earned, and that's how it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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