Nerf Bombers please

[Kaivers]

You think that is boring? Try playing tank or healer in WZ. Playing bombers are fun for me. Very fun.

 

This is great to know and and I'm very happy for you!

Edit: This actually got me thinking as to whether bombers were designed this way for future PVE content. They would perform well as tanks against a boss Cruiser or Capital ship. All they would have to do is get the boss to chase them while deploying drones and mines at periodic intervals. In the mean time other fighters will organize attack runs.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Kaivers

[Brewski]

Bombers are not OP. Having flown both using them and against them, I found them surprisingly balanced considering how broken they were in the closed beta. Where I could score 20 kills in a closed beta match flying a barely updated bomber, last night I found myself scoring 3 - 5 kills per match flying a well updated bomber. (I've been hording daily and weekly rewards for this event, so I had a good chunk to update out the gate.) I do much better in my scout, but then bombers are not intended to get kills so much as defend nodes and support. (Where they excel.)

 

As far as opposing bombers, I did not have any particular difficulty dealing with drones or mines, and only died to them a couple of times. So long as you work to clear them before you do in, either with EMPs or good old fashioned shooting, you are okay.

 

What adding bombers does do is increase the already steep learning curve in GSF. You need to learn not to charge straight in on a satellite unless it's in the first minute of a match. You need to scope out the situation before entering and deal with what defenses they have. Bottom line ... TACTICS.

[Itkovian]

While it's too early to tell for sure, so far last night I must saw that bombers weren't so bad (at least on Ebon Hawk). Once they fortify a sat it definitely takes a concerted effort to wipe them out, preferably with the help of a gunship, but it hasn't proven impossible.

 

That said, I've tried the EMP missile on my Pike and it's proven far less useful than I had hoped. It's too situational: it's great if there's swarms of dones and such, but practically useless in any other situation (slow projectile speed, long reload, definitely meant for stationary targets or bombers only).

 

I found myself to be FAR more effective with my usual Proton Torpedo/Cluster missile loadout. Protorps just tear bombers apart, while clusters will definitely take out mines and drones with ease (just watch the range, don't want to get caught in the radius).

 

If I could have 2 pike loadouts on a match, I'd definitely have one with EMP, but for now I do more than well enough with Protorp/Clusters.

[reclipsed]

How do you loose to only drones/turrets in a Gunship? You outrange them, or am I missing something?

 

The only thing you're missing is that OP is bad. He prob just tunneled into a field of mines thinking he could derp superman them instead of swiching ships.

 

Seriously, a Strike Fighter or Gunship eats Bombers if played right.

[HoloGrinder]

I've actually never flown in a premade. I'm talking strictly from a teamwork perspective, pugs or premade.

 

I understand what you are saying because I have seen this take place with and without premades. During my first experience flying a bomber I noticed a group of my teammates enveloping a satellite with mines and drones. When I saw what they were doing I simply joined in because I had nothing else better to do.

 

This was my first experience and most likely my last, if I ever do get to play in a pre made they will literally have to pay me creds to get me to pilot a bomber.

 

I am on a server where my faction loses a vast majority of our matches. Where 9 out of 10 matches are against a premade with voip. In fighting them I had developed only 1 tactic that worked and only some times at that. I take my scout and never let a turret stand. I never let them turn there back on a satellite for a second by blowing the turrets in no time and taking it as soon as they turn there back. This had a disruptive effect on there team work and gave us a chance. Speed, evasion, radar damping to the max for this. Some times I could take 1 and start taking a second before they get there one back or hug the satellite and evade long enough to stop it from turning when we each have one and we have a slight lead near the end. The whole way I play was just removed from the game with the introduction of bombers. On evenly matched teams we could just battle it out and I would not have to play that way but it was often our only shot at wining. Wining against a premade is now over for my faction on my server not that it happened often any way but when it did it was epic.

[HoloGrinder]

Bombers are not OP. Having flown both using them and against them, I found them surprisingly balanced considering how broken they were in the closed beta. Where I could score 20 kills in a closed beta match flying a barely updated bomber, last night I found myself scoring 3 - 5 kills per match flying a well updated bomber. (I've been hording daily and weekly rewards for this event, so I had a good chunk to update out the gate.) I do much better in my scout, but then bombers are not intended to get kills so much as defend nodes and support. (Where they excel.)

 

As far as opposing bombers, I did not have any particular difficulty dealing with drones or mines, and only died to them a couple of times. So long as you work to clear them before you do in, either with EMPs or good old fashioned shooting, you are okay.

 

What adding bombers does do is increase the already steep learning curve in GSF. You need to learn not to charge straight in on a satellite unless it's in the first minute of a match. You need to scope out the situation before entering and deal with what defenses they have. Bottom line ... TACTICS.

 

You might add that you need to pop out your binoculars and scope it out from 1600+ meters away because the gun ship drone's don't miss if you want to scope it out. Wait that won't work either because at 1600m a scoped in GS can't even see a drone so how could a scout or SF? And when you said defending a satellite what you really meant was you can stick your flag in it and mark it off limits to all scouts for the duration of the match by putting your drones that do the killing for you on it. You can then fly back to the spawn point and go afk. Just check your kills at the end of the match to see how many you got. Hell you'r contributing how could you not be you got kills the whole time right?

[Scrabs]

I never said scouts where OP. Scouts can be made to be OP with burst lasers and a few other things but still i never even thought that to be OP due to the range restrictions and the weak hull. SF's used to be to weak. Scouts have now joined them in being utterly useless in domination falling victim to the bomber and in deathmatch falling victim to the GS. As it stands bombers in domination = win, GS's in deathmatch = win period. everything else is useless. Ohhhh almost forgot. Premade of the dominant faction = WIN,WIN,WIN,WIN,infinity...

 

Please. You're just an awful Scout then, sorry. Just kill the Bomber from range, kill the turrets and cap the base. It's really not that hard if you run a solid build.

 

If you constantly get killed by Gunships in Deathmatch then work on your awareness and/or how you approach them going in for a kill. This is simply a l2p issue.

[ToMyMa]

Please. You're just an awful Scout then, sorry. Just kill the Bomber from range, kill the turrets and cap the base. It's really not that hard if you run a solid build.

 

If you constantly get killed by Gunships in Deathmatch then work on your awareness and/or how you approach them going in for a kill. This is simply a l2p issue.

 

This.

 

I actually think the 'nerf' to DF helps more against Gunships now, as it lasts a whopping 9 seconds. Use the crew ability, running interference, I think, and you'll be golden.

[Llama-Eight]

You might add that you need to pop out your binoculars and scope it out from 1600+ meters away because the gun ship drone's don't miss if you want to scope it out. Wait that won't work either because at 1600m a scoped in GS can't even see a drone so how could a scout or SF? And when you said defending a satellite what you really meant was you can stick your flag in it and mark it off limits to all scouts for the duration of the match by putting your drones that do the killing for you on it. You can then fly back to the spawn point and go afk. Just check your kills at the end of the match to see how many you got. Hell you'r contributing how could you not be you got kills the whole time right?

 

?? IIRC, the railgun drone has a range of 10k, so as long as you're further than that you'll be fine. Not sure what the max radar range is on a ship with any relevant scanner range boosting mods is, but it should be somewhat more than 10k against something that doesn't have sensor dampening.

 

Just checked, a Blackbolt with maxxed out range sensors & Scorpio has a sensor range of ~25k, a Sting with Scorpio has a range of ~20k, so you should be able to see them on radar (for tab target goodness) well before you're in range, even the ships without a sensor boosting piece of kit have a sensor range of at least 15k.

 

Moral of the story is, don't rush in if the other team has bombers (unless the match has just started), and if they have dumped a load of drones/etc, grab a gunship when you respawn (or ask a teammate in a gunship to give you a hand if you don't have one).

[RebekahWSD]

Regarding the OP's statement that the enemy team was leaving the sat undefended with the exception of drones...

 

IIRC from the tooltips, mines only survive 120 seconds. Is it different for drones? Otherwise someone had to be replenishing them.

[steyates]

Drones can last for up to four minutes with the tier 2 upgrade.

[RebekahWSD]

Thank you. New information

[mattycutts]

I'll elaborate on how it happened. I raced to the sat and got there first with another scout on my team. A split second later they had 2 scouts show up and we fought. By the time there scouts where killed here came the rest of there team and we where taken out fast. I went pretty quick to a gun ship and I am not sure how the other scout died but we died. We raced back and the drones where in place and we died to the drones. We called for back up and raced in with 5 ships. The turrets where up supporting the drones and all 5 of us died. This was satellite (A) there team never came to aid the drones because the drone's got the job done over and over again. Instead there whole team sat on satellite (B) and defended it. When we got tired of being drone fodder at (A) most of us rushed (B). We failed. After a few attempts at (B) we went and sat on © for the defending points because we could neither blow up A or B and it was past the point of no return where we would need all 3 satellites to win. They never even attacked © The part that inspired this post was the fact that 5 of us could not take satellite (A) and they had no one defending it the whole game just drones. After we went to sit on C I don't think a blaster was fired for the rest of the game on either side.

 

 

 

 

 

There is the play by play.

 

I can understand that, but why didn't any of u grab a gunship? max range any thing a bomber has is 10k, gunship is 15k, If that was me in same situration on my gunship and no actual enemy ships there I would have cleared that whole damn base in seconds and then started capping with zero death, zero damage.

 

they cant nerf them things coz if they did nerf them anymore there would be zero need for anyone to play a bomber. the only issue I really have in gsf is the fighter, I can fly them ok but boring as hell and need a slight more buff to them.

 

as for bombers they fine as they are just got to adapt to this new type of ship.

 

as someone said in a reply, they seen threads where people say scout OP, Gunship OP, Bomber OP, to me that sounds like its actually balanced then except for fighters needing a little love.

[Brewski]

You might add that you need to pop out your binoculars and scope it out from 1600+ meters away because the gun ship drone's don't miss if you want to scope it out. Wait that won't work either because at 1600m a scoped in GS can't even see a drone so how could a scout or SF? And when you said defending a satellite what you really meant was you can stick your flag in it and mark it off limits to all scouts for the duration of the match by putting your drones that do the killing for you on it. You can then fly back to the spawn point and go afk. Just check your kills at the end of the match to see how many you got. Hell you'r contributing how could you not be you got kills the whole time right?

 

Oddly, my drones were popped by gunships, strikers and even scouts multiple times throughout the matches I played.

 

Equally oddly, I was able to spot enemy drones at 20k and 25k ranges at various times in the match. Hell, sometimes I was spotting them on neighboring satellites like I do enemy turrets from times to time.

 

Even more oddly, my drones and mines don't last long enough to AFK for the match, as they expire and need to be replenished, meaning I need to stay on the sat in order to continue defending.

 

And very very oddly not only did I have satellites I was defending as a bomber taken from my team, I also managed to take them away from enemy bombers on multiple occasions.

 

I'm starting to wonder if we are playing the same game.

[HoloGrinder]

Oddly, my drones were popped by gunships, strikers and even scouts multiple times throughout the matches I played.

 

Equally oddly, I was able to spot enemy drones at 20k and 25k ranges at various times in the match. Hell, sometimes I was spotting them on neighboring satellites like I do enemy turrets from times to time.

 

Even more oddly, my drones and mines don't last long enough to AFK for the match, as they expire and need to be replenished, meaning I need to stay on the sat in order to continue defending.

 

And very very oddly not only did I have satellites I was defending as a bomber taken from my team, I also managed to take them away from enemy bombers on multiple occasions.

 

I'm starting to wonder if we are playing the same game.

 

I have not flown a bomber but i was victim to an impossible defense mounted on a satellite by several bombers that where not on the satellite during any of my attempts.

[tunewalker]

how many people who play bombers have gotten kills with their lasers. One of my favorite things to do is to run intradiction mines, Intradiction engines, heavy lasers and servo gamers it allows me to actually out manuever most opponents by locking down their manuverability and pew pewing to my hearts content. Sure my mines still get me lots of kills but I get almost equal as many with the lasers.

 

Same with the drone one but with less of the slowing stuff. I still get kills with lasers, and I dont even get that many kills I ussually get far more assists on the bomber and more kills on my strike or gunship or even my scout depending on the game.

 

 

Honestly I am loving GSF balance right now. Tactics just need to be used more. Every component has its place now and a niche thing depending on enemy team and server. Heck i have even found myself switching ships more often between Bomber, strike, scout, gunship depending on the match situation and what seems to be needed, since they are all built slightly with something different in mind.

[XavinNydek]

IIRC, the railgun drone has a range of 10k, so as long as you're further than that you'll be fine.

On top of that, they don't even do that much damage. They certainly aren't comparable to a charged player rail shot. Gunships are the hard counter to bombers, there's literally nothing a bomber can do to escape/damage a gunship that knows how to play in a 1v1 scenerio. Bombers need screeners to protect them.

 

Similarly, scouts are largely countered by bombers, as going fast and getting in close aren't a defense against mines and drones. The lone Blackbolt/Novadive cowoy playstyle is a lot harder to pull off now than it was, but I think the EMP has the potential to even that out some again.

[HoloGrinder]

Please. You're just an awful Scout then, sorry. Just kill the Bomber from range, kill the turrets and cap the base. It's really not that hard if you run a solid build.

 

If you constantly get killed by Gunships in Deathmatch then work on your awareness and/or how you approach them going in for a kill. This is simply a l2p issue.

 

the bomber(s) where not at satellite (A) where there drones where. they where at satellite (B) with the rest of the premade.

[HoloGrinder]

This.

 

I actually think the 'nerf' to DF helps more against Gunships now, as it lasts a whopping 9 seconds. Use the crew ability, running interference, I think, and you'll be golden.

 

I'm not getting killed by GS's I kill them with ease. In the tale of what happened I did die to a GS but no hard feelings as I kill them way more often. Just happened to be how it went down. Others have started a thread about premades flying all GS's and grouping just off the enemy spawns in death match. If i said anything about GS's it was to support them in what sounded like an awful exploitation.

[XavinNydek]

the bomber(s) where not at satellite (A) where there drones where. they where at satellite (B) with the rest of the premade.

Then A is easy to capture with a solo gunship.

[HoloGrinder]

Drones can last for up to four minutes with the tier 2 upgrade.

 

As the 5 of us where attacking as a group it is possible that the drones where replaced while we where re spawning but the bombers where never in the area when we got back they where at (B)

[HoloGrinder]

I can understand that, but why didn't any of u grab a gunship? max range any thing a bomber has is 10k, gunship is 15k, If that was me in same situration on my gunship and no actual enemy ships there I would have cleared that whole damn base in seconds and then started capping with zero death, zero damage.

 

they cant nerf them things coz if they did nerf them anymore there would be zero need for anyone to play a bomber. the only issue I really have in gsf is the fighter, I can fly them ok but boring as hell and need a slight more buff to them.

 

as for bombers they fine as they are just got to adapt to this new type of ship.

 

as someone said in a reply, they seen threads where people say scout OP, Gunship OP, Bomber OP, to me that sounds like its actually balanced then except for fighters needing a little love.

 

My gunship is the one I am working on upgrading now and I didn't grab it because my scout is mastered and I was flying against a premade. The rest of my team had 2 to 3 ships and I don't know that there was a gun ship among them. also we where a pug so no voip I called for back up with my keyboard and was lucky to get the help I got.

[Brewski]

What I get from this thread:

 

"I was outplayed last night, and refuse to learn (or even consider) new tactics to counter my enemy, so I insist that you instead nerf them into extinction so I don't need to try."

 

Does that about cover it?

[HoloGrinder]

Then A is easy to capture with a solo gunship.

 

I have to say that now that the bashing seems to have taken a break I am learning a lot and will switch to my GS if i run into that again. but for the new players that don't have GS's to jump into that make up a large portion of most pugs on the imp side on my server it is still game breaking.

[silvershadows]

I have had no issues with bombers. Their drones and mines are easy to see and easy to avoid.

 

I fly a burst laser Flashfire and have jumped on/killed plenty bombers, and a switch to quad lasers would give me the range needed to knock their drones and mines out of space before they could hit me anyway.

 

They're fine.