Weapon Power Recently Consumed Regeneration Rate

[Verain]

Where can I find this value? For reference, this is the amount of weapon pool regeneration that occurs within 1.5 seconds of firing your last blaster shot. I assume it is some fraction of the baseline, but I don't know where to find it.

[Armonddd]

That is a good question. It certainly exists, because ships without magazine slots regenerate weapon power while firing, but I just realized I also have no idea what the value is. Maybe Dulfy has something, or swtor_miner's come across a value somewhere?

 

(Or maybe Tait will jump in here -- I know you read the forums, even if you're way more shy than we'd all like you to be.)

[Verain]

With a bit of testing, I believe that the recently consumed regeneration rate is similar to the regular regeneration rate (10/s baseline). This doesn't discount it being different, but I don't think it can be SUPER different. Edited February 2, 2014 by Verain

[Zharik]

With a bit of testing, I believe that the recently consumed regeneration rate is similar to the regular regeneration rate (10/s baseline). This doesn't discount it being different, but I don't think it can be SUPER different.

 

Granted this is only a guesstimate, but I think it is in the vicinity of 60% normal. Engine regen is similar when recently consumed (boosted). Watch your engine after you rush the initial satellite after you stop boosting, the bar increases at a certain rate, then a few seconds later the drained portion changes from a reddish color to a more purple/dark blue (I think this is the regular regen rate) and it regens a LOT faster. Tap boost for just a second and see is slow down again.

 

Weapons appear to work the same way, though this is easier to test:

Fire your guns until your power reserves are depleted... notice that you can fire once you get enough energy in the reserves to power "1 shot". This is your recently consumed regen rate. If you hold down the trigger, you'll fire like once every 4 seconds or so (different loadouts will yield different results!) Now let the weapons recharge for a little while without holding down the trigger, and you will regen at a much faster rate.

[Verain]

Well, we know the "recently fired" time is 1.5 seconds, we get that stat.

 

I don't think it's as low as 60%.

[Zharik]

Well, we know the "recently fired" time is 1.5 seconds, we get that stat.

 

I don't think it's as low as 60%.

 

1.5 seconds is when it starts to regen... Just like shields don't regen (without tier 3 quick charge shields) for up to 6 seconds (depending on loadout) after you stop taking damage.

 

You can think what the actual % is all you want... if you wanted to test it you could... (use whatever power setting you want though I bet it would be easiest to see on max engines or max shields since that would exaggerate the reduction in weapon regen) drain all your energy and see how many attacks you can get off in 60 seconds by holding down the left mouse button. Then repeat the same test while allows the weapon power bar to nearly fill before draining it, and repeating for 60 seconds (timer starts as soon as the weapon power is drained).

 

So if you get say 15 shots off when holding the mouse button down and can get off 20 by letting the power regen between bursts there is a definite, and noticeable reduction for power recently consumed.

[Armonddd]

My

might shed some light on this, but someone else will have to do the actual counting and stuff.

[Zharik]

I did some testing:

On the tutorial (ran through all the things that break movement and just did not cap the sat) then I hit x, F3 for greater engine regen (more importantly slower weapon regen to ease counting):

after draining all power reserves, it took about 30 seconds to get 17 shots off when holding the button down, easy as heck to count.

Then I started a timer when the power was fully drained and released the button... took like 12 seconds to fill most of the way up but when I fired I counted the "ticks of energy drain on the power bar", I got to 17 at about 20 seconds. and BEFORE the bar was completely drained (though almost there)

 

Yes I think it would be a lot easier to count the attacks with a BLC, but I am unwilling to hurt my team's chances of victory to get a more accurate count.

 

Analysis; "recently drained" does have a significant effect on weapon fire rate. Also, I think my supposition of 60% normal during recently consumed regen is about right.

[Verain]

1.5 seconds is when it starts to regen... Just like shields don't regen (without tier 3 quick charge shields) for up to 6 seconds (depending on loadout) after you stop taking damage.

 

No. It is not like shields- energy comes back the whole time. You can hold left click and see this fact- unlike shield taking damage, you always get energy.

 

1.5 seconds is how long you have to not fired for it to swap from "Weapon Power Recently Consumed Regeneration Rate" to "Weapon Regeneration Rate", which we know (it's on the paper doll).

 

I'm saying that whatever heck the "Weapon Power Recently Consumed Regeneration Rate" is, it is:

 

1- Much greater than 0.

2- Apparently very close to the normal regen rate, if not identical.

 

You can think what the actual % is all you want... if you wanted to test it you could...

 

I have done this by firing the weapon until I go OOE and then comparing the results. It seems ROUGHLY similar to the weapon power regen rate by doing this, but my precision is limited.

 

(use whatever power setting you want though I bet it would be easiest to see on max engines or max shields since that would exaggerate the reduction in weapon regen)

 

You should use max blasters when testing this, as you will almost always have that, and it is not known exactly what effect max blasters has- percent base increase, flat increase, whatever. Then we'd have to figure that out. You almost always need F1 active when blasting anyway.

 

drain all your energy and see how many attacks you can get off in 60 seconds by holding down the left mouse button. Then repeat the same test while allows the weapon power bar to nearly fill before draining it, and repeating for 60 seconds (timer starts as soon as the weapon power is drained).

 

I didn't do this because I didn't want to queue and waste a minute.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Verain

[Verain]

I did some testing:

On the tutorial (ran through all the things that break movement and just did not cap the sat) then I hit x, F3 for greater engine regen (more importantly slower weapon regen to ease counting):

after draining all power reserves, it took about 30 seconds to get 17 shots off when holding the button down, easy as heck to count.

 

We'll need F1 to get a good value. However, I go through way more than 17 before I'm even halfway through the bar. Is your tutorial not light laser or something? It is over 30 shots for damned sure, it's absurd.

[Verain]

My

might shed some light on this, but someone else will have to do the actual counting and stuff.

 

Yea, that's about what I see when I do it- it's just PWEWEWEWEWETWETWWEWWEWEWWEWWEWEWEEWWE

[Zharik]

No. It is not like shields- energy comes back the whole time. You can hold left click and see this fact- unlike shield taking damage, you always get energy.

 

1.5 seconds is how long you have to not fired for it to swap from "Weapon Power Recently Consumed Regeneration Rate" to "Weapon Regeneration Rate", which we know (it's on the paper doll).

Ok, you are correct about this (I just checked on the tutorial) but this does not really change my initial hypothesis of "holding down the button" regens slower than "not".

I'm saying that whatever heck the "Weapon Power Recently Consumed Regeneration Rate" is, it is:

 

1- Much greater than 0.

2- Apparently very close to the normal regen rate, if not identical.

Identical... you actually believe that?!? Then WHY would they add a slow regen rate (and show you how long you have to wait before you get the faster regen rate on the paperdoll)? This makes no sense. The actual number matters, and if it is indeed near 60%, holding down the fire button is a severe drop in "DPS" once your power pool runs out.

I have done this by firing the weapon until I go OOE and then comparing the results. It seems ROUGHLY similar to the weapon power regen rate by doing this, but my precision is limited.

Knowing how you compared things would help evaluate them.

You should use max blasters when testing this, as you will almost always have that, and it is not known exactly what effect max blasters has- percent base increase, flat increase, whatever. Then we'd have to figure that out. You almost always need F1 active when blasting anyway.

F1 increases your weapon power regen rate (as well as adds blaster damage). This is most likely a constant. In the event that it is not a percentage increase to your regen (Say +30% of whatever your normal rate is) and is a flat increase +3/second regardless of your normal regen rate then this would make my supposition even more dicey. Basically my point is I wanted to eliminate power setting from the equation, since we're not comparing F1-F4 power regen rates. We're comparing "Weapon Power Recently Consumed Regeneration Rate" vs the "Weapon Power NOT Recently Consumed Regeneration Rate".

 

But for a moment, may we please assume that F1 = +30% weapon regen rate -30% shield/engine regen rate? And vica-versa for F2/F3? If that is true, then your "Weapon Power Recently Consumed Regeneration Rate" vs the "Weapon Power NOT Recently Consumed Regeneration Rate" will be proportional? Or at least, use the F4 power setting since the "paperdoll" lists the normal regen rate at 10.0/sec?

I didn't do this because I didn't want to queue and waste a minute.

 

You "wasted" more than 1 minute typing this out...

[Zharik]

We'll need F1 to get a good value. However, I go through way more than 17 before I'm even halfway through the bar. Is your tutorial not light laser or something? It is over 30 shots for damned sure, it's absurd.

 

You are confusing "animations" with "a single attack".

 

In the tutorial if you run out of weapon power, you fire 3 pairs of shots (6 total blaster bolts) when you get enough energy to fire. That's 1 attack. That's like full auto/unload in the ground game... it ticks damage 4 times (iirc) for the whole sequence, but the game animations are a "whole bunch" of blaster shots. I hope you are not counting all those.

 

Would this be easier to test with a combat dummy in space? Hell yeah!

[Verain]

Ok, I just did it in a match with BLC. My results were... moderately useful.

 

First, I timed how long, and counted the shots, necessary to expend three full charges on my flashfire (which has no magazines, and who has C2N2 who doesn't have any blaster adds).

 

In 35 seconds, I went through the thing three times. Each time had enough energy for exactly 10.

 

Then I tried holding it down. It took substantially less time to complete, but there was a catch: the burst laser cannon would actually do a strange thing near the bottom of the energy pool where it would fire 1, or even 2 shots. I didn't have an enemy underneath, so I don't know if this mattered (aka, would it have hit for full power?). These shots visually seemed to consume less energy. This is likely a bug, but I got the 30 shots off in around 26 seconds. This has to be a bug. Again, I don't know if these "third power" shots near the base of the pool did a third of the damage, but either way, what?

 

Anyway, I wasn't there to investigate the burst laser cannon being glitchy, so instead I did the same experiment, but this time I paused to about a third of the pool and then pressed the button again. In this manner, all of my shots were full shots, but there WAS some delay between shots. In either event, we should have seen this:

 

First case: A few seconds of "weapon power delay regen" during bar exhaustion. Much of the time was spent refilling to max manually.

 

Second case: Many more seconds of "weapon power delay regen", with a lot less time spent refelling with the normal rate.

 

 

The time was 35 seconds again.

 

 

 

I can detect no difference. This is with burst laser cannon, which also likely benefits from shooting while ooe because of the ability to shoot "1/3" and "2/3" shots, the damage magnitude of which I cannot check easily.

 

 

 

 

My conclusion stands thus far: whatever the "weapon power recently consumed regeneration rate" is, it is very close to the "weapon power regeneration rate" after the 1.5 second delay.

[Zharik]

In 35 seconds, I went through the thing three times. Each time had enough energy for exactly 10.

So if I am reading this right, you fired 30 times in 35 seconds using the "full weapon power till drained, then no firing until they were fully (or nearly) charged again"?

Then I tried holding it down. It took substantially less time to complete,

Less time to complete 30 shots? How much time?

 

Were both tests conducted in the same manner? (F1 for example)

 

To be honest I hate trying to test this via the forums, as it almost requires some serious testing to evaluate what that regen rate might be (hell we could probably figure out what the F1-F3 power redistributions actually do in terms of %). But again, if you want to hold down the button once you run out of energy, go ahead...

[Verain]

So if I am reading this right, you fired 30 times in 35 seconds using the "full weapon power till drained, then no firing until they were fully (or nearly) charged again"?

 

Correct. I had F1 pressed down. Then, I started the timer as I cilcked the mousey button. When it was about out (based on prior experience if I went to the 11th shot it would be a "partial" shot), which was the 10th shot, I stopped pressing until it was fully regenerated. Then I repeated. The moment the 30th shot went off, I was watching the timer and it hit 35.

 

Less time to complete 30 shots? How much time?

 

A few seconds. Again, there were many "partial' shots, which you should be able to replicate with a Sting/Flashfire at the base of its charge pool- I didn't like those because they seemed buggy. I am convinced it was due to those partial shots.

 

Were both tests conducted in the same manner? (F1 for example)

 

Yes.

 

To be honest I hate trying to test this via the forums, as it almost requires some serious testing to evaluate what that regen rate might be (hell we could probably figure out what the F1-F3 power redistributions actually do in terms of %). But again, if you want to hold down the button once you run out of energy, go ahead...

 

 

It's hard, but this appears to be all we have.

 

If the delta was large- say, 50%- I would have seen that. I spent a lot more time in my test 3 in that phase than in my phase 1, and I saw no difference. If there is a delta, but it doesn't show up in a 35 second test, I'd say it is meaningless in practice.

[Zharik]

If the delta was large- say, 50%- I would have seen that. I spent a lot more time in my test 3 in that phase than in my phase 1, and I saw no difference. If there is a delta, but it doesn't show up in a 35 second test, I'd say it is meaningless in practice.

 

This is kind of why I started my test out at zero power reserves, because that is where the effect is seen. I mean really, the sprint from full power to zero is the same for both tests, so that data is identical. So you conducted your test VASTLY different than I did mine.

 

Here's what I suggest. Using the same power regen setting, no CDs that affect any rate of fire/regen (I'm looking at you, Blaster Overcharge), once you run OUT of power, race to 30 shots... the first way just holding down the button, the other waiting for nearly full power reserves before holding until they are out, then release again and repeat (for this to be fair, if you get to 29 and start regening to full, that's not the way it should work. I think you understand what I mean.)

[Zharik]

Oh yeah if there is something weird going on with BLC and low power, I am not sure what to do about that.

[Verain]

Now I'm just miffed like crazy about it.

 

I tried with heavy lasers. I have maxxed regen magazine, and Risha (+10% blaster pool, so 110). It took me 41 seconds to discharge the battery thrice, over 57 shots- each time regenning to full.

 

Then I tried the same trick, just holding it down and counting to 57 shots. Like with the BLC, it took less time. I don't know what is going on at low energy- maybe it credits you somehow, or maybe it draws shots where there aren't any, or maybe it is just bugged. But it took me around 36 seconds to fire the same number of shots by just holding it down. Unlike the BLC, it doesn't draw partial shots, but something funny is going on for sure.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Verain

[Aikion]

I talked to swtor_miner, and he said that the data will be available on Dulfy's GSF Build Calculator the next time it's updated. He also asked if there's any other information you guys would like added to it.

[Verain]

Identical... you actually believe that?!?

 

That seems to be what my evidence is showing, yea.

 

Then WHY would they add a slow regen rate

 

We don't know that they did, is the thing. But whatever is going on at low energy combined with the fact that each usage seems to sometimes not animate (I can confirm for sure with burst laser that you can get an invisible blast that does full damage) makes it very frustrating to test. I am considering a longer test where I shoot every second (the delay is 1.5 seconds) and try to work a test out that way.

 

You "wasted" more than 1 minute typing this out...

 

A minute of testing in a game is me not participating and being a jerk. Time here doesn't matter. Maybe that wasn't clear though.

 

 

I talked to swtor_miner, and he said that the data will be available on Dulfy's GSF Build Calculator the next time it's updated. He also asked if there's any other information you guys would like added to it.

 

 

We have nothing conclusive on this sadly, except the very possible situation that there's some free damage to be had at the bottom of the energy bar, at least with some weapons.

[Aikion]

Have you guys considered this is related to the Ability Queue Window, like the ghost GCD issue?

 

Simply put:

1. You press fire and queue up a shot to fire on the server, while locally you don't have the power for it.
   
2. When it gets to the server you now have the power to fire the shot, and the server fires.
   
3. Damage done is passed to your game client and displayed. But the animation never plays due to never being triggered locally.
   
4. Your power bar is now de-synced from the server and is providing a false power level reading.