JadedJasper Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Cluster Missiles with the "double fire" 15k upgrade will often hit you even if you use your engine ability (e.g. Barrel Roll). Is this intended? It makes them much more potent than they would otherwise be, as the only way to avoid it is to cancel their lock before they fire, but then they can just immediately relock you. This is becoming much more commonplace as more and more people max out their Flashfires and Stings. Seems like a clear bug to me, but I'd love to see some clarification on whether it's intended. It's becoming more annoying than Ion Rail tapping. Edited February 2, 2014 by JadedJasper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 You can also break it by using distortion field to break one lock and an engine ability to break the other. It sounds like a bug to me, and at the very least it's broken and should be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedJasper Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Also the +25% ammo crew ability is applied too late, yielding 15 rather than 12 shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I think the +4 ammo from tier 4 completely ignores the halving effect of double volley, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I think the +4 ammo from tier 4 completely ignores the halving effect of double volley, too. Which is why you should pick it, alongside with a crew member that adds ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Also the +25% ammo crew ability is applied too late, yielding 15 rather than 12 shots. I assume that's intentional. The multiplier is probably meant to be just for the base. It seems like you always get hit with the 30% one, but I've never tried using both engine components. It should be documented as a feature or fixed as a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I assume that's intentional. The multiplier is probably meant to be just for the base. That's silly, though. It basically says "you're shooting two cluster missiles at once, but sometimes you only need to shoot one missile in order to shoot two of them." It seems like you always get hit with the 30% one, but I've never tried using both engine components. There isn't a 30% missile. Before t5, one missile does 678(ish) damage. With double volley, you get +30% damage across two hits. Each missile does 441 damage, and the flytext reflects this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 That's silly, though. It basically says "you're shooting two cluster missiles at once, but sometimes you only need to shoot one missile in order to shoot two of them." No, it mostly says "Corso can stack extra if he knows you'll be firing them two at once". These ammo secondaries being good would be nice! There isn't a 30% missile. Before t5, one missile does 678(ish) damage. With double volley, you get +30% damage across two hits. Each missile does 441 damage, and the flytext reflects this. This I did not know! Having been on the receiving end multiple times, I just knew that the second missile hits less hard than the one single missile. I was assuming it was a 30% missile, but I guess it is a 65% missile (and so is the first). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Just use the plasma warheads and have 30 shots. Yeah, yeah I know you "lose" 15%, but I like the DOT for keeping shield regen delayed for 5 more seconds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikla Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Cluster Missiles with the "double fire" 15k upgrade will often hit you even if you use your engine ability (e.g. Barrel Roll). Is this intended? It makes them much more potent than they would otherwise be, as the only way to avoid it is to cancel their lock before they fire, but then they can just immediately relock you. This is becoming much more commonplace as more and more people max out their Flashfires and Stings. Seems like a clear bug to me, but I'd love to see some clarification on whether it's intended. It's becoming more annoying than Ion Rail tapping. There is definitely something screwy going on with lock breaking. Don't know if it just cluster or all locks,but I frequently have had locks not being fully broken by either DF or Barrel Role. I have hit my breaker when I hear launch tone, tone breaks for a split second then get a second launch tone immediately with no delay for reacquiring lock. It's instantaneous. It's almost as if lock on is stacked as multiple ships target you and the lock breaker only clears one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 This I did not know! Having been on the receiving end multiple times, I just knew that the second missile hits less hard than the one single missile. I was assuming it was a 30% missile, but I guess it is a 65% missile (and so is the first). Glad I could inform! Just use the plasma warheads and have 30 shots. Yeah, yeah I know you "lose" 15%, but I like the DOT for keeping shield regen delayed for 5 more seconds... But in addition to double volley doing more damage and most targets dying before the five seconds end, the really important thing is that double volley is prettier. I have hit my breaker when I hear launch tone, tone breaks for a split second then get a second launch tone immediately with no delay for reacquiring lock. It's instantaneous. It's almost as if lock on is stacked as multiple ships target you and the lock breaker only clears one. This only happens with clusters, not anything else. I've definitely been in situations where a bunch of guys were getting locks on me and I broke them all at once. I think it's more that the second cluster missile automatically re-acquires the lock after you break the "first missile's lock". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 But in addition to double volley doing more damage and most targets dying before the five seconds end, the really important thing is that double volley is prettier. Hard to argue the "prettier" part, but I run out of missiles with the plasma type (30 iirc) so the double volley would be worse for me. I was just offering a different perspective, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Hard to argue the "prettier" part, but I run out of missiles with the plasma type It's odd, but they put the missile refill station in the enemy capital ship hangar. Just head on over, and you'll get your fresh batch of missiles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 It's odd, but they put the missile refill station in the enemy capital ship hangar. Just head on over, and you'll get your fresh batch of missiles! What, really? I was under the impression that they'd put installations in the asteroids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 It's odd, but they put the missile refill station in the enemy capital ship hangar. Just head on over, and you'll get your fresh batch of missiles! While your humor is not lost on me, I refuse to suicide to get a reload. I'd rather have a drop off on my kill rate and survive the whole match. Oh and I have been in a 1000-999 come back game... would not have if I used your reload strategy. Come to think of it... anyone know why there is a variable in the respawn timer after you die? I'd like to see it be longer overall, like a minimum 15 seconds. (even a constant 15 seconds would be better than the random time you hva e to wait now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Oh and I have been in a 1000-999 come back game... would not have if I used your reload strategy. Can't be sure you wouldn't have gotten a kill with that missile loadout, or more than one, or scare someone into rolling into a sat, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemoSD Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 It is also possible that the cluster missiles, which are the fastest traveling, and easy to lock on at near point blank range, 'hit' before you evaded, but due to the nature of internet lag, the hit may of registered in a weird order. I tend to fire a lot of clusters at point blank range, with little time to escape from them before they hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 It is also possible that the cluster missiles, which are the fastest traveling, and easy to lock on at near point blank range, 'hit' before you evaded, but due to the nature of internet lag, the hit may of registered in a weird order. I tend to fire a lot of clusters at point blank range, with little time to escape from them before they hit. I've fired plenty at long range and watched only one of the yellow numbers pop up. Normally 441 pops up twice. If they break the lock after I launch, it pops up once. If they break the lock before I launch, I re-lock. Very rarely an inexperienced pilot will use both distortion field and their engine ability (usually out of panic, I think) and evade both missiles after launch. It's broken and they can't do anything about it in a practical situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I've fired plenty at long range and watched only one of the yellow numbers pop up. Normally 441 pops up twice. If they break the lock after I launch, it pops up once. If they break the lock before I launch, I re-lock. Very rarely an inexperienced pilot will use both distortion field and their engine ability (usually out of panic, I think) and evade both missiles after launch. It's broken and they can't do anything about it in a practical situation. Do you think it is possible that they just popped up at the same time so they "looked" like 1 number? I guess the only way to tell would be to watch the target's shields/hull (video could do it) and watch the shield/hull %s on the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershadows Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 It's a bug since the last patch, where the second missile in cluster volley ignores your lock break if you break the lock AFTER the missiles have been fired. The workaround is to pop your engine ability before the missile has been fired - which of course leaves you vulnerable to a follow-up missile, so it isn't really a workaround at all. I actually prefer plasma warheads since the DOT prevents shield regeneration, but right now double cluster volley has the advantage because of the bug... which means technically, if you know about the bug and choose to use it anyway, you're a cheesey exploiter Hopefully it gets fixed soo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Do you think it is possible that they just popped up at the same time so they "looked" like 1 number? I guess the only way to tell would be to watch the target's shields/hull (video could do it) and watch the shield/hull %s on the target. No. My main build (which I play on three characters) rolls with double volley, and there's plenty of double volley scouts out there shooting at me. It really does work as I described it. I could make a video of it later if you really want, but there's plenty of streamers who have it recorded all over their archived broadcasts. I actually prefer plasma warheads since the DOT prevents shield regeneration, but right now double cluster volley has the advantage because of the bug... which means technically, if you know about the bug and choose to use it anyway, you're a cheesey exploiter Not my fault the only good option is the one that's bugged! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedJasper Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 Just use the plasma warheads and have 30 shots. Yeah, yeah I know you "lose" 15%, but I like the DOT for keeping shield regen delayed for 5 more seconds... If only all my opponents would use this much less effective version, rather than the one that keeps nailing me through barrel roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedJasper Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) It is also possible that the cluster missiles, which are the fastest traveling, and easy to lock on at near point blank range, 'hit' before you evaded, but due to the nature of internet lag, the hit may of registered in a weird order. I tend to fire a lot of clusters at point blank range, with little time to escape from them before they hit. That can happen too, but has different audio cues. It also doesn't happen near 5k, which is the range I've used to verify this bug. What you get is: launch sound, some time passes, barrel roll to break, missile incoming sounds starts again immediately, some more time passes, then finally one 65% damage missile hits you. There's more than enough time between launch and connect to rule out lag, especially if you boost away after launch. It's mostly annoying because of the shield pierce. Edited February 4, 2014 by JadedJasper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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