The REAL Most Powerful Revisited

[Darkelefantos]

I always interpreted it as going through the heart. The blades appear crossed to me, so it seems likely.

 

Edit: Oh, and Fay appears to have lived longer than 200 years. Mace Windu said that she lived for "many hundreds of years". Two =/= many.

 

From the picture, they don't look like they are piercing the heart. Neither of them, they both go in and come out on the right side of the body, somewhat to the middle at best. And the heart of a human would be lateralised slightly to the left.

Still, might just be sloppy artwork

Edited June 1, 2014 by Darkelefantos

[cs_zoltan]

1. Even if she was Sephi, she should be dead and wrinkly.

 

2. True enough.

 

3. Ventress as far as we know didn't improve greatly over the course of the war in terms of Force Abilities, but it remains a feat that neither Windu nor Jaina have matched, they simply can't one shot Force Users in this way.

 

4. *shrug* You'll have to consult Lady on that one. But its still a feat Jaina has failed to match.

 

1. So how old exactly she is? Wookiepedia only says "centuries" which could mean 210 years. Qui-Gon looked pretty fit for a 60 years old, just sayin'.

 

3. fair enough.

 

4. /summon Lady...seriously though even if she didn't have that kind of healing it doesn't mean she's inferior to Fay in ever other aspect.

[Aurbere]

From the picture, they don't look like they are piercing the heart. Neither of them, they both go in and come out on the right side of the body, somewhat to the middle at best. And the heart of a human would be lateralised slightly to the left.

Still, might just be sloppy artwork

 

Well, I have the comic in front of me, and it appears to go through the heart to me.

[Darkelefantos]

Well, I have the comic in front of me, and it appears to go through the heart to me.

Ah, I don't have that luxury right now, but going of the picture linked on the last page, the sabers seem to exit right next to each other on the right side of the chest.

As I said, might be sloppy artwork, or an honest mistake, or it has to do with how the picture looks cut out like this, or Fay's an alien with her heart on the right. Still, the wound definitely pierces her lungs, which is pretty inconvenient.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Darkelefantos

[cs_zoltan]

3. Ventress as far as we know didn't improve greatly over the course of the war in terms of Force Abilities, but it remains a feat that neither Windu nor Jaina have matched, they simply can't one shot Force Users in this way.

 

On a second thought, even Kenobi who was a master imporved a lot during the war, so I don't see how a lot younger Ventress didn't.

[Aurbere]

Ah, I don't have that luxury right now, but going of the picture linked on the last page, the sabers seem to exit right next to each other on the right side of the chest.

As I said, might be sloppy artwork, or an honest mistake, or it has to do with how the picture looks cut out like this, or Fay's an alien with her heart on the right. Still, the wound definitely pierces her lungs, which is pretty inconvenient.

 

Quite. Hmm... I don't know. It just seems that one of the goes through the heart to me.

[Beniboybling]

1. So how old exactly she is? Wookiepedia only says "centuries" which could mean 210 years. Qui-Gon looked pretty fit for a 60 years old, just sayin'.

 

3. fair enough.

 

4. /summon Lady...seriously though even if she didn't have that kind of healing it doesn't mean she's inferior to Fay in ever other aspect.

Given that Windu says, that she was many centuries old, more than 200 years, probably more like 300 years +

 

Healing is just one aspect, Jaina can't pwn Ventress either, or hold up a building with TK.

 

And I bet you that when 300 years old she is, look as good she will not!

Edited June 1, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Darkelefantos]

On a second thought, even Kenobi who was a master imporved a lot during the war, so I don't see how a lot younger Ventress didn't.

 

Well, in this case it's a matter of the existing Force potential (Ventress was strong, but not that strong) and things like the preferred fighting style (which is dueling for Ventress). Also, what's in question here is her defense against Force abilities, right? That's an aspect where I didn't see a lot of improvement from her, ever.

 

Edit:

Quite. Hmm... I don't know. It just seems that one of the goes through the heart to me.

 

That's fine. She was definitely impaled through her lungs and chest, potentially even the heart, and she recovered from what would otherwise have been a lethal wound. In the end, whether or not the heart was pierced doesn't take away much from the feat.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Darkelefantos

[cs_zoltan]

Given that Windu says, that she was many centuries old, more than 200 years, probably more like 300 years +

 

Healing is just one aspect, Jaina can't pwn Ventress either, or hold up a building with TK.

 

And I bet you that when 300 years old she is, look as good she will not!

 

1. Yeah I didn't know that so I agree.

2. If you say so

3. Well 300 in human years is like 120-130, and since Dooku was kicking *** over 80 it's not that unlikely. But still I concede

[Aurbere]

That's fine. She was definitely impaled through her lungs and chest, potentially even the heart, and she recovered from what would otherwise have been a lethal wound. In the end, whether or not the heart was pierced doesn't take away much from the feat.

 

Quite right. It is very impressive no matter how you slice it.

[Beniboybling]

On a second thought, even Kenobi who was a master imporved a lot during the war, so I don't see how a lot younger Ventress didn't.

In terms of lightsaber combat, Force Powers are a different story.

 

Not that it matters, even if she's not at the height of her power, she's still powerful.

 

For example see here, 7 weeks into the war and she's holding her own against some of the greatest duelists and one of the most powerful Force Users in the Order, and demonstrating considerable ability in TK. Doesn't look that weak.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Anyway I'm thinking that Fay may at the very least be more powerful than Vader.

 

1. Vader can tank lightsaber impalement yes, but to vital organs? Doesn't seem it.

 

2. Kenobi put Fay in Yoda's league (though not on level) above we should note, Anakin Skywalker. Who some seem to believe is more powerful than Vader, I personally don't buy it. But I doubt the gap between them is large, and the way Kenobi talks I'd expect him to take into account the immense amount of potential resonating from Anakin.

 

Noting in terms of Kun, that Luke put him in league with Sidious i.e. Yoda/Fay league.

 

3. Vader could probably Force Choke Ventress outright, but not completely incapacitate her I think.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Darkelefantos]

Anyway I'm thinking that Fay may at the very least be more powerful than Vader.

 

1. Vader can tank lightsaber impalement yes, but to vital organs? Doesn't seem it.

 

2. Kenobi put Fay in Yoda's league (though not on level) above we should note, Anakin Skywalker. Who some seem to believe is more powerful than Vader, I personally don't buy it. But I doubt the gap between them is large, and the way Kenobi talks I'd expect him to take into account the immense amount of potential resonating from Anakin.

 

Noting in terms of Kun, that Luke put him in league with Sidious i.e. Yoda/Fay league.

 

3. Vader could probably Force Choke Ventress outright, but not completely incapacitate her I think.

 

1. That event was never canon. Although I'd say that, based on the fact that impaling a vital organ would likely destroy his suit's life support systems, he probably won't survive unless he's treated quickly (see his fight with Maul's Doppelgänger).

 

2. I don't think Obi-Wan was including Anakin's potential into that assessment, because Anakin had the potential to be above Yoda, not just in his league. And we don't know where he would have rated Darth Vader in his suit either.

 

3. Now that's just speculation.

[Beniboybling]

1. That event was never canon. Although I'd say that, based on the fact that impaling a vital organ would likely destroy his suit's life support systems, he probably won't survive unless he's treated quickly (see his fight with Maul's Doppelgänger).

 

2. I don't think Obi-Wan was including Anakin's potential into that assessment, because Anakin had the potential to be above Yoda, not just in his league. And we don't know where he would have rated Darth Vader in his suit either.

 

3. Now that's just speculation.

1. Lots of events where never canon, but I feel that unless contradicted they remain accurate depictions of a character's abilities. And as we see here, though he is capable of surviving one blow, the second blow kills him instantly. Noting that in his duel with Maul, he stabs himself in the abdomen.

 

2. I don't think Kenobi could fully perceive Anakin's potential, but I'm sure he could see that he had great power. And Anakin has various feats that rival Vader's, so I'd say they are close. Ultimately though he did not come close to Yoda.

 

And Kenobi says:

 

At first I thought I would be on any other mission with Jedi Knights to accompany me with, but I quickly realised that the four Jedi that would accompany me, were the legends that I'd heard of as a child and then I saw her, youth betraying her ancient eyes and a power in the Force I had not sensed in anyone except our Grand Master.

 

i.e. her strength in the Force rivalved Yoda's, Vader's never did. Exar Kun's far more likely, perhaps.

 

3. Vader has fought a ton of Jedi, never has he incapacitated any of them in such a manner.

[cs_zoltan]

There's a big gap between Yoda and Windu/Anakin, it doesn't mean she's in Yoda's league.

[Darkelefantos]

1. Lots of events where never canon, but I feel that unless contradicted they remain accurate depictions of a character's abilities. And as we see here, though he is capable of surviving one blow, the second blow kills him instantly. Noting that in his duel with Maul, he stabs himself in the abdomen.

 

2. I don't think Kenobi could fully perceive Anakin's potential, but I'm sure he could see that he had great power. And Anakin has various feats that rival Vader's, so I'd say they are close. Ultimately though he did not come close to Yoda.

 

And Kenobi says:

 

At first I thought I would be on any other mission with Jedi Knights to accompany me with, but I quickly realised that the four Jedi that would accompany me, were the legends that I'd heard of as a child and then I saw her, youth betraying her ancient eyes and a power in the Force I had not sensed in anyone except our Grand Master.

 

i.e. her strength in the Force rivalved Yoda's, Vader's never did. Exar Kun's far more likely, perhaps.

 

3. Vader has fought a ton of Jedi, never has he incapacitated any of them in such a manner.

 

1. It's still non-canon footage from a what-if game scenario. And the TFU game doesn't feature accurate representations of anyone's ability, really

 

2. Clearly excludes potential, because potential is something different than the power you have at the current time. That aside, not questioning her power. But Anakin's potential was obvious and well-known throughout the order. What this tells us is that, considering Force power, she was arguably the second strongest Jedi of her time. But it doesn't tell us much beside that, unfortunately. It doesn't outright tell us how strong she is, or how large the gap is between her and Yoda and whoever is in #3 (Windu at the time, I guess?).

I'm also going to assume that Vader was more powerful than Anakin was at the end of Ep 3, the reasons being his experience advantage and the fact that the Dark Side feeds on negative emotion. And if we go back to the fight with Maul's Doppelgänger, Vader explicitly stated that he hates himself. So IMO Vader > Anakin on Mustafar.

 

3. So? He even used his Lightsaber to kill the younglings, are you telling me he couldn't have taken them out with the Force? There is a difference between being unable to do it and being unwilling to do it. Besides, Vader always struck me as the type that prefers proving himself in 1v1 Lightsaber combat.

Plus, being a Sith lord, I assume incapacitating is a lower priority than decapitating .

[Beniboybling]

There's a big gap between Yoda and Windu/Anakin, it doesn't mean she's in Yoda's league.

Kenobi says that he hasn't see such power in the Force in anyone other than Yoda, that means she's in Yoda's league.

 

Else he would have said something, her power is surpassed only by Yoda or something.

[Beniboybling]

1. It's still non-canon footage from a what-if game scenario. And the TFU game doesn't feature accurate representations of anyone's ability, really

 

2. Clearly excludes potential, because potential is something different than the power you have at the current time. That aside, not questioning her power. But Anakin's potential was obvious and well-known throughout the order. What this tells us is that, considering Force power, she was arguably the second strongest Jedi of her time. But it doesn't tell us much beside that, unfortunately. It doesn't outright tell us how strong she is, or how large the gap is between her and Yoda and whoever is in #3 (Windu at the time, I guess?).

I'm also going to assume that Vader was more powerful than Anakin was at the end of Ep 3, the reasons being his experience advantage and the fact that the Dark Side feeds on negative emotion. And if we go back to the fight with Maul's Doppelgänger, Vader explicitly stated that he hates himself. So IMO Vader > Anakin on Mustafar.

 

3. So? He even used his Lightsaber to kill the younglings, are you telling me he couldn't have taken them out with the Force? There is a difference between being unable to do it and being unwilling to do it. Besides, Vader always struck me as the type that prefers proving himself in 1v1 Lightsaber combat.

Plus, being a Sith lord, I assume incapacitating is a lower priority than decapitating .

1. Unfortunately we need more than "its game mechanics" to dismiss this. TFU exaggerates not underrates so that doesn't exactly work I feel. And honestly I've seem nothing that shows that Vader is capable of sustaining such injury.

 

2. Its all about perspective, potential can be perceived and has been perceived all the time. But I'm not going to push that point, I just thought it was worth mentioning. Vader still remains out of Yoda's league.

 

And Kenobi makes it quite clear that Fay's power is comparable to Yoda's. The only reason we can't use that evidence to outright state that Fay is as powerful as Yoda is the statement that says Yoda is the most powerful Jedi.

 

She certainly can't be that much less powerful than Yoda, else he simply wouldn't have made the comparison.

 

3. Ventress =/= Younglings lol. I'm talking about powerful/capable Jedi. And Vader has never shown to shy a way from slapping down his enemies with the Force. This just doesn't seem to be within Vader's arsenal I feel.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Beniboybling

[cs_zoltan]

If she's in Yoda's league she would've sensed Ventress' attack. So even if Fay's healing > Vader's healing, Vader's sense >>> Fay's sense.

[Darkelefantos]

1. Unfortunately we need more than "its game mechanics" to dismiss this. TFU exaggerates not underrates so that doesn't exactly work I feel. And honestly I've seem nothing that shows that Vader is capable of sustaining such injury.

 

2. Its all about perspective, potential can be perceived and has been perceived all the time. But I'm not going to push that point, I just thought it was worth mentioning. Vader still remains out of Yoda's league.

 

And Kenobi makes it quite clear that Fay's power is comparable to Yoda's. The only reason we can't use that evidence to outright state that Fay is as powerful as Yoda is the statement that says Yoda is the most powerful Jedi.

 

She certainly can't be that much less powerful than Yoda, else he simply wouldn't have made the comparison.

 

3. Ventress =/= Younglings lol. I'm talking about powerful/capable Jedi. And Vader has never shown to shy a way from slapping down his enemies with the Force. This just doesn't seem to be within Vader's arsenal.

 

1. Honestly, I'm dismissing it not because of game mechanics but because the event you base your point on isn't canon. Vader didn't die by being impaled through a vital organ and TFU (the game) has questionable representations of the Star Wars universe. I also don't see how this is relevant at all. So he can't heal from such a wound. Wow. How many people in the known galaxy can inflict such a wound to Vader? Not enough to use this against him.

 

2. Yoda at least has the feats to back up his position as the most powerful Jedi of his time, whereas Fay's position is being based on a statement by Obi-Wan and the fact that she healed a grievous injury inflicted to her. But as I said, I'm not doubting her power. I'm saying Vader is more powerful than being given credit for.

 

3. Of course Ventress doesn't equal younglings. But that doesn't change the point. He could have snapped all their necks and left. Would have been much faster. But he didn't. So it may very well be down to what he chooses to do at the time. And, I'm not an expert on this, but, would he grant Jedi a swift death? Would he not prefer to torture them by forcing them to fight him untill they die? He does hate the Order, right?

[Beniboybling]

If she's in Yoda's league she would've sensed Ventress' attack. So even if Fay's healing > Vader's healing, Vader's sense >>> Fay's sense.

Fay was caught off guard after being hit by a large explosion, which cause her to falter and gave Ventress the opportunity she needed to kill the unarmed Jedi.

[Beniboybling]

1. Honestly, I'm dismissing it not because of game mechanics but because the event you base your point on isn't canon. Vader didn't die by being impaled through a vital organ and TFU (the game) has questionable representations of the Star Wars universe. I also don't see how this is relevant at all. So he can't heal from such a wound. Wow. How many people in the known galaxy can inflict such a wound to Vader? Not enough to use this against him.

 

2. Yoda at least has the feats to back up his position as the most powerful Jedi of his time, whereas Fay's position is being based on a statement by Obi-Wan and the fact that she healed a grievous injury inflicted to her. But as I said, I'm not doubting her power. I'm saying Vader is more powerful than being given credit for.

 

3. Of course Ventress doesn't equal younglings. But that doesn't change the point. He could have snapped all their necks and left. Would have been much faster. But he didn't. So it may very well be down to what he chooses to do at the time. And, I'm not an expert on this, but, would he grant Jedi a swift death? Would he not prefer to torture them by forcing them to fight him untill they die? He does hate the Order, right?

1. This isn't a versus match... the fact is Fay could have survived those kinds of injuries. Which makes her the more powerful healer. TFU is non-canon now, so none of it happened, but we still take it into account. "It didn't happen" =/= "its not accurate" simple as. The game was faithful in those cutscenes to Vader's powers so I see no reason why they would stop now. Nor any precedence anywhere else that suggests Vader could survive this level of injury.

 

2. That is a feat, as is holding the building with TK and incapacitating Ventress with a wave of her hand, and prolonging her life/not aging. And in all honestly projecting a powerful Force aura is also what I'd consider a feat.

 

Vader not anywhere near as powerful as Yoda, that I'm afraid is just the case.

 

3. It does because I'm arguing that Vader cannot incapacitate/kill a Force User of Ventress caliber outright given the fact that he has failed to do so against less powerful Jedi in which it would have come very much in handy.

 

Vader is not the kind of person to enjoy others pain, he goes in and he crushes the opposition quickly. Never has Vader ever given a Jedi anything other than as swift a death as he seems capable of.

[tunewalker]

1. This isn't a versus match... the fact is Fay could have survived those kinds of injuries. Which makes her the more powerful healer. TFU is non-canon now, so none of it happened, but we still take it into account. "It didn't happen" =/= "its not accurate" simple as. The game was faithful in those cutscenes to Vader's powers so I see no reason why they would stop now. Nor any precedence anywhere else that suggests Vader could survive this level of injury.

 

2. That is a feat, as is holding the building with TK and incapacitating Ventress with a wave of her hand, and prolonging her life/not aging. And in all honestly projecting a powerful Force aura is also what I'd consider a feat.

 

Vader not anywhere near as powerful as Yoda, that I'm afraid is just the case.

 

3. It does because I'm arguing that Vader cannot incapacitate/kill a Force User of Ventress caliber outright given the fact that he has failed to do so against less powerful Jedi in which it would have come very much in handy.

 

Vader is not the kind of person to enjoy others pain, he goes in and he crushes the opposition quickly. Never has Vader ever given a Jedi anything other than as swift a death as he seems capable of.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dfnkLaYfh0 :49 disagrees with you about number 3.

 

Vader also usually seems to resort to his Light Saber First when dealing with Force Sensitives and then dominating them with some Dun Moch influenced displays of Force Might. He learned from his master

 

"The Sith grew past the use of lightsabers. But we continue to use them, if only to humiliate the Jedi." ―Darth Sidious

 

 

Edit: in response to "no where near Yoda" he is at least 80%. And the healing thing we have talked about before is more technical then power based, requiring a great understanding of Biology, not a great attunement and understanding of the Force.

 

 

 

Edit 2: I went back and re-read the assessment when comparing Saba and Revan, and I feel Saba's senses were unfairly judged harshly on the whole idea that "senses take more technical mastery then connection" simply because she beat Yoda and Luke in them. I do not feel this is the case. As we have talked about this is what she had a strong affinity for (similar to Kun and his affinity for Sorcery) and unlike the case with healing where it is more based on your physical knowledge then your understanding of the Force, Saba's senses came from her deep connection and understanding the Living Force rather then any knowledge or understanding of non-force based fields giving an edge in a force based field.

 

Bassically you cant chalk up one's strongest feats to being "affinity" and then say because they are "affinity" they are most likely more technical then power based and then turn right around and say that even though its "affinity" for another character that THAT particular case is pure on power it doesnt matter that its "affinity" that allowed them to achieve higher levels then would have other wise been impossible for the character its what they achieved. Consistancy when Judging characters needs to be here, and by reading that one i can tell its not.

Edited June 2, 2014 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dfnkLaYfh0 :49 disagrees with you about number 3.

 

Vader also usually seems to resort to his Light Saber First when dealing with Force Sensitives and then dominating them with some Dun Moch influenced displays of Force Might. He learned from his master

 

"The Sith grew past the use of lightsabers. But we continue to use them, if only to humiliate the Jedi." ―Darth Sidious

 

 

Edit: in response to "no where near Yoda" he is at least 80%. And the healing thing we have talked about before is more technical then power based, requiring a great understanding of Biology, not a great attunement and understanding of the Force.

 

 

 

Edit 2: I went back and re-read the assessment when comparing Saba and Revan, and I feel Saba's senses were unfairly judged harshly on the whole idea that "senses take more technical mastery then connection" simply because she beat Yoda and Luke in them. I do not feel this is the case. As we have talked about this is what she had a strong affinity for (similar to Kun and his affinity for Sorcery) and unlike the case with healing where it is more based on your physical knowledge then your understanding of the Force, Saba's senses came from her deep connection and understanding the Living Force rather then any knowledge or understanding of non-force based fields giving an edge in a force based field.

 

Bassically you cant chalk up one's strongest feats to being "affinity" and then say because they are "affinity" they are most likely more technical then power based and then turn right around and say that even though its "affinity" for another character that THAT particular case is pure on power it doesnt matter that its "affinity" that allowed them to achieve higher levels then would have other wise been impossible for the character its what they achieved. Consistancy when Judging characters needs to be here, and by reading that one i can tell its not.

And yet in their many engagements he never thought it wise to pin her to a wall and/or disarm her. That seems to indicate that he couldn't maintain that grip if she struggled or has to stun her as he did here.

on the other hand...

 

Yoda didn't engage Ventress in combat because she was so beneath him that he didn't have to, he just dominated her outright, just like Fay did. Vader is not one to expend energy on someone he can beat with a wave of a hand.

 

20% is a huge gap considering Sidious could probably Force Choke Vader, and its stated many times that he is simply out of his league. If Kenobi is comparing Fay's power to Yoda's then she can't be any more than 10% behind surely.

 

Healing one's body requires a great deal of raw power, which is why Vader and many others have been able to sustain themselves through sheer willpower. Not that Vader's mastery over Control should be questioned here. Its legendary.

 

Vader is powerful yes but I simply don't feel he is in the same league here, sure Vader has a lot of impressive and flashy showings but Fay's collective feats point to an extremely powerful connection to the light side of the Force. A connection that in all fairness Vader was denied by the injuries, mental and physical, he suffered on Mustafar.

 

P.S. *shrug* that was a long time ago, and I know little about Saba. However Sense abilities more often that not place emphasis on knowledge and innate understanding over power, for example Darth Traya.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

And yet in their many engagements he never thought it wise to pin her to a wall and/or disarm her. That seems to indicate that he couldn't maintain that grip if she struggled or has to stun her as he did here.

on the other hand...

 

Yoda didn't engage Ventress in combat because she was so beneath him that he didn't have to, he just dominated her outright, just like Fay did. Vader is not one to expend energy on someone he can beat with a wave of a hand.

 

20% is a huge gap considering Sidious could probably Force Choke Vader, and its stated many times that he is simply out of his league. If Kenobi is comparing Fay's power to Yoda's then she can't be any more than 10% behind surely.

 

Healing one's body requires a great deal of raw power, which is why Vader and many others have been able to sustain themselves through sheer willpower. Not that Vader's mastery over Control should be questioned here. Its legendary.

 

P.S. *shrug* that was a long time ago, and I know little about Saba. However Sense abilities more often that not place emphasis on knowledge and innate understanding over power, for example Darth Traya.

 

First things are fair enough, for the P.S. "knowledge and understanding" of what exactly?

 

If its of the Force.... that is power....... see Yoda and Luke on Dagobah. Even the more "power" based abilities such as TK or Lightning or what have you is based on the users knowledge and understanding of the Living and Cosmic Force along with their connection to said Force.

 

Depending on the Sense ability they are a signs of Knowledge, Understanding and connection to either the Living Force or the Cosmic Force. With abilities like Life senses seeming to be a greater connection and understanding of hte Living Force, while precog seems a greater connection and understanding of the Cosmic Force.

 

Heck looking at the Wookie page on Force powers we can almost break down control, sense and Alter into other catagories at times though admittedly it does seem like this may be difficult (I am talking the umbrella powers, essentially almost every control power is a variation on a number of 3 different powers, Sense same thing, Alter also same thing..... like Force Whirlwind, Repulse and such all being essentially TK)

 

 

Edit: If wondering what i mean by umbrella powers

 

"Three main abilities were centered around Control: tutaminis, curato salva, and altus sopor. These three umbrella abilities incorporated many of the abilities Jedi used throughout their service to the Republic.[2]"

 

"The Jedi Order saw the Sense abilities divided into four main groups: prima vitae, tactus otium, tai vordrax/psychometry, and projected telepathy. While there were many other styles to the Sense family, these were considered the most vital to Jedi teachings.[2]"

 

"In the Order of the Jedi, the great Masters considered the techniques of telekinesis, affect mind, and alter environment to make up this family of abilities.[2]" Thought I may personally add in Force Lightning to that list though it could theoretically fall under "alter enviroment"

Edited June 2, 2014 by tunewalker