The REAL Most Powerful Revisited

[tunewalker]

OK guys this isn't really relevant so lets get back on course, if we are unsure concerning Jaina vs Vader lets see if we can reach a conclusion concerning Jaina vs Exar Kun who is after all first in the list.

 

Honestly the 2 are so close (Vader and Kun) that I feel if 1 beats her pretty much so does the other. So it again is hard to judge, need Lady or Squirl for More info on Jaina.

[Aurbere]

Yes but the ROTJ novel states not a character's opinon but what the story is saying...which says..

 

 

 

Also...

 

Moving back a little bit on Anakin(as a Padawan) and that Conqueror Dreadnought feat. It has repulsorlifts yes? So...wouldn't this feat be very impressive, considering that Anakin was going against the repulsors?

 

Very well.

[Selenial]

Actually....I have something that proves that statement to be a load of ***...but I can't find it now, or it proves that statement isn't completely 100%. It's shown though in ROTJ novel, they were fighting as equals up until Luke tapped into his anger and overwhelmed Vader.

 

Of course take note, all they were doing was straight up dueling. They both were holding back their Force Powers.

 

Luke's force abilities by ROTJ were not anywhere near fine tuned, or as close to Vader's as they'd need to be.

 

And yes, Vader was trying to hold back. He wanted to lure luke to the Dark Side, have him as an apprentice to overthrow palpatine with. He couldn't do that if he killed him >.>

On the other hand, Luke went into such a blind rage that he nearly DID kill Vader.

 

Vader could have killed Luke with that Saber Throw, but he aimed it at a railing.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Luke's force abilities by ROTJ were not anywhere near fine tuned, or as close to Vader's as they'd need to be.

 

And yes, Vader was trying to hold back. He wanted to lure luke to the Dark Side, have him as an apprentice to overthrow palpatine with. He couldn't do that if he killed him >.>

On the other hand, Luke went into such a blind rage that he nearly DID kill Vader.

 

Vader could have killed Luke with that Saber Throw, but he aimed it at a railing.

 

Vader wasn't holding back and actually Luke does have some impressive abilities by ROTJ.

 

But anyway let us not derail the topic on this.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

OK, considering Lady isn't here, I'll just quote her so we can pretend she is. Wait, what's that you say?

I still say Vitiate and Caedus' positions should be switched, but moving on.

 

To me, despite my deep love for Exar Kun, it kind of isn't much of a competition, Jaina Solo.

 

Luke himself considers her over anyone else, as the candidate to take charge of the Jedi Order once he either retires from galactic affairs or straight up dies.

 

The Lost Tribe of the Sith make it clear that beyond Luke Skywalker, Jaina Solo is the largest threat to them, also she was named Sword of the Jedi because she was considered to be the absolute champion of the New Jedi Order, the one to lead them into war, in the FOTJ series it starts to become more and more clear that Luke is getting on a little bit, Jaina is selected by landslide as the one to lead the Order when the day comes that he decides to step down.

 

Now I could go into all of her extraordinary feats, but I still think defeating her twin was the crowning achievement for her and we've already discussed that at length.

I still believe Jaina Solo Fel gets the post, her wookiee page really doesnt do her justice.

 

Her in-combat abilities are so powerful that when she was attacked by Caedus' extreme force lightning/ force grip combination and launch into the wall, that even though she broke multiple bones, she used her advanced healing trance to bring her back to full health.

 

Oh and Revan achieved Oneness in the force and put the Emperor on his arse, once that was over though, he got fried easily by Vitiate's second volley.

She is a master in touching the thoughts of her opponents including her own master Kyp Durron, a master in healing herself despite severe injuries, is very advanced in the art of force cloak and numerous other abilities, including Shatterpoint, which she used to effectively out-think her twin and come out on top.

 

Though I do think the use of the force during lightsaber combat is being frequently forgotten here, Sidious was a great lightsaber duellist because of his force capabilities.

 

Jaina is similar, she used the force, whilst severely injured to defeat nearly 20 Sith at a time on Coruscant, she won because she was too quick for them to react to.

Sorry but I believe Jaina Solo to be superior to Mace Windu in the force, her Shatterpoint seemed much more effective than his was.

 

Also, she has MANY force abilities at her command, the issue is, all of them are tailored towards close combat, her force cloak is perfect for an ambush, she can see into the past and view flashpoints, she can read and change the minds of her combatants, she is an expert at stealth, probably the greatest sentinel/shadow type of Jedi ever and she also has shown a mastery of force speed.

 

When she defeated Yuuzhan Vong Warmaster Tsavong whilst having almost no use of her legs she was too fast for him to measure,

When she slew Supreme Overlord Shimrra's full group of slayer bodyguards single-handed, she was too fast for them.

Then later on when whilst severely injured she fought nearly twenty Sith of the Lost Tribe and killed all of them with ease because of her speed.

 

It has been noted on multiple occasions that she saved her own life many times with her healing trance, which she wielded mid-combat, effectively making her extremely difficult to kill.

 

She also exhibited such an intense natural affinity for force lightning that it was black, which frightened her mother into incorrectly believing it was her that was studying the Dark Side, not her twin.

 

She can also easily break the force grip of almost anyone, the only Dark Sider known to be able to use it against her was her twin, Caedus, someone who was able to fight Luke Skywalker effectively in combat.

 

She also exhibited the ability of Force Sever in small displays during the Lost Tribe crisis, using it on Sith Sabers to eliminate them from combat(though I doubt this was the permanent variation).

 

By the time of the Abeloth/Daala/Lost Tribe crisis, Luke claimed Jaina had largely trained herself whilst on the field, showing the same natural affinity for the force that Luke exhibited during his training as a Jedi and that she had effectively made herself into a Jedi Master, thus he bestowed upon her the rank of Jedi Master and called her the greatest champion of it's order.

 

Jaina uses her very impressive command of the force as a one-on-one combatant, she is an introvert force user, not an extrovert, thus being named the Sword of the Jedi, just because you focus on personal combat and use force abilities that are more directed on a singular person doesn't make you a lesser force user.

We already know Jaina Solo was the second best Jedi in the whole Order by FOTJ, she is more powerful than Kyp, Kyle Katarn admitted she had surpassed him way back in LOTF.

I'm honestly not sure whether Vader should be on the list, I mean Jaina Solo should already be above him, as she defeated Caedus, whom we know was canonically stated as more powerful than Vader was.

 

I know, I know A>B>C logic isn't the best but I see no reason to believe it isn't true.

Well as far as I'm aware, they're were many exceptional circumstances involved. Mainly the fact that Caedus was trying to escape, and Jaina received an advantage before the duel began by impaling him in the stomach.

 

There was also never any direct display of Force abilities, mainly lightsaber combat. So we can only infer that Caedus is the superior lightsaber duelist, else he wouldn't be above Jaina on the list.

There were not so many that Caedus couldn't defend himself and attack in kind as he could and though we know he was for sure more powerful than her, It is the same as Vader vs Luke Skywalker, Caedus had no interest in dealing with her in that moment of time and Vader had no interest in killing his son.

 

The difference is, Jaina got the jump on Caedus and then overpowered and killed him, as Luke defeated Vader in much the same way.

 

Caedus>Vader in power, so I am proposing that Jaina could do the same, we know through comparison of abilities that FOTJ Jaina is more powerful than ROTJ Luke.

Well after re-reading the ROTJ novel, it's become clear that Vader threw everything at Luke with his lightsaber and still lost, Jaina is very clearly superior to ROTJ Luke so I'd say she'd beat Vader for sure, I also think the powers she has displayed out-weigh Vader's impressive Telekinesis.

I think Kyp and Vader are harder to judge, but for me it's clearly Jaina Solo over Vader, not only does she have the perfect force techniques to be arguably the best Jedi Sentinel/Shadow ever, her force speed was unbelievable even during the Vong war.

 

Her use of shatterpoint and stealth techniques is in my opinion unrivalled, also her abilities to affect the mind of a force user are very impressive, she can even see into past events, her raw power just outmatches Vader in my opinion.

 

She was so powerful through the Force she butchered some of the most powerful Vong and she took on twenty Sith Sabers and killed them all because she was too fast for them to keep track of, which is much more impressive than Vader's handling of the Ambush at Kessel.

 

Her power is realised fully when she is given the rank of Jedi Master by Luke himself, claiming that it wasn't training that made her so powerful, but instinct and battle in the field, because power in the Force comes naturally to her, just like it did to her Uncle.

Vader as has been stated uses his strength in the Dark Side a lot for his lightsaber duels, as stated in the ROTJ novel, he threw everything at Luke in that final duel, having re-read the novel, he does decide that actions speak louder than words and wants to show his son how much more powerful the Dark Side, is, he succeeds but only at his own expense.

 

If ROTJ Luke can defeat Vader, I am certain FOTJ Jaina Solo could.

 

Her specific powers simply show slightly greater command of the Force than her Grandfather wielded, I think the fact she faced Caedus twice in a row and not only survived but won, shows how powerful she was and her later use of Force Speed whilst severely injured to kill nearly 20 Sith Sabers is frankly an astonishing feat considering that the Lost Tribe were no mess abouts they were a powerful Sith organization.

 

And her command of Force Lightning when she has close brushes with the Dark Side is kind of frightening, especially when you consider it mangled and fried the Vong she used it on, described as deformed, it also killed Lost Tribe Sith very quickly, showing her abilities to break directly through force barriers with ease.

 

Her ability to change and alter a Force Users' mind is very impressive to, especially considering she could use it to trick the Vong as well.

 

Then there are of course her abilities in Stealth which are many and numerous and all very powerful, especially her Force Concealment, it worked so well that a Sith Lord of Darth Caedus' power didnt even know she was there at first in their second engagement.

 

Then you have her Healing Trance technique which has brought herself back from the brink of death quite a few times, which is very impressive considering that a regular Force User can't heal much beyond a broken bone or two, where as she could bring herself back from near death to almost full strength in not too long a time at all and whilst in LOTF this did exhaust her use of the Force for awhile it got more impressive in FOTJ when even after facing down multiple Sith and killing them using a massive burst of Force Speed, she still had enough left in the tank to heal her severe injuries, which she had gained before her showdown with the Lost Tribe.

Well there you have it folks, I must say its a pretty strong case for Jaina. Edited February 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

Vader wasn't holding back and actually Luke does have some impressive abilities by ROTJ.

 

But anyway let us not derail the topic on this.

 

Vader was holding back. He wanted to convert luke, and there are plenty of examples of him holding back.

 

And not enough to beat Vader...

 

TBH, This is to do with the topic, as Luke Beating him is often an argument used against him

[Selenial]

OK, considering Lady isn't here, I'll just quote her so we can pretend she is. Wait, what's that you say?

 

*Slowly backs away to get a large Net and tranquilizer*

[tunewalker]

Vader was holding back. He wanted to convert luke, and there are plenty of examples of him holding back.

 

And not enough to beat Vader...

 

TBH, This is to do with the topic, as Luke Beating him is often an argument used against him

 

Vader wasn't Holding back the book says he wasnt thus he wasnt. Luke beating him shouldnt be used as something against him but for something FOR Luke. Luke was the one holding back not wishing to fight at all. Lets face it as long as some one can quote RotJ Novel which is on the same level cannon as the movie all sources that say Vader was holding back is Null. Luke beat the best Vader their was Fair and square.

Edited February 6, 2014 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

Vader wasn't Holding back the book says he wasnt thus he wasnt. Luke beating him shouldnt be used as something against him but for something FOR Luke. Luke was the one holding back not wishing to fight at all. Lets face it as long as some one can quote RotJ Novel which is on the same level cannon as the movie all sources that say Vader was holding back is Null. Luke beat the best Vader their was Fair and square.

 

The quote doesn't even say that Vader wasn't holding back.

 

Hell, it blatantly says that he WAS holding back, but that he wouldn't if luke tapped into his full power. His only mistake was taunting luke and pushing him into a complete Rage, and even then Vader held back by not using telekinetics.

[Aurbere]

Well there you have it folks, I must say its a pretty strong case for Jaina.

 

Well, alright then.

[tunewalker]

The quote doesn't even say that Vader wasn't holding back.

 

Hell, it blatantly says that he WAS holding back, but that he wouldn't if luke tapped into his full power. His only mistake was taunting luke and pushing him into a complete Rage, and even then Vader held back by not using telekinetics.

 

Shall I quote other portions of it?

[Beniboybling]

*Slowly backs away to get a large Net and tranquilizer*

*wonders and worries who exactly it is for...*

[Beniboybling]

Shall I quote other portions of it?

No.

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

Shall I quote other portions of it?

 

Seeing as I just read it, for like the 1000'th time... no.

 

But that quote right there states Vader was holding back. I don't know why you think another quote from the same book would contradict that.

[Beniboybling]

Seeing as I just read it, for like the 1000'th time... no.

 

But that quote right there states Vader was holding back. I don't know why you think another quote from the same book would contradict that.

Aaaaaaand, the debate at hand.

[tunewalker]

Aaaaaaand, the debate at hand.

 

Ya just reading over Ladies stuff I have to say the list is perfect as is. I will debate Luke at a later time suffice to say the quote DOESNT say vader is holding back it says Luke is Holding back and that while vader does not Wish to win if the boy isnt going to give it his best (it enrages him that the boy wont give everything in fact) he is still perfectly willing to do so. In fact the quote continues

 

"Only he wanted Luke to aware of those consequences. He wanted Luke to know this was no longer just a game. This was Darkness." pretty much stating he would give it his all even if it didnt make him happy to kill Luke when Luke wasnt trying, but he would be sure Luke was aware of the fact that he was only killed because of his own stuborness and foolishness. There is more that points to it, but like i said this is a debate for another time.

[Aurbere]

Actually i can not guess why as of yet but i dont remember the exact list so thats probably why.

 

I forgot to reply to this. I am against Corran Horn being on the list, and have prepared a long post to detail why.

[Beniboybling]

Ya just reading over Ladies stuff I have to say the list is perfect as is.

Well I'm still not sure that Jaina is superior to Exar Kun, considering his showings.

[tunewalker]

Well I'm still not sure that Jaina is superior to Exar Kun, considering his showings.

 

I would disagree, she seems to be showing powers capable of beating Kun. For just a thought if the NJO could defeat Kun's Essence in JA when he was starting to get close to returning at the time that they were, I think the much better trained and much more powerful Jaina could have done it solo with little difficulty. In fact I am sure Corran Horn could have done it solo, but of course this isnt Kun at his height, but just through scaling I think at his Height Jaina would be more then a match for Kun.

 

Again just based on info provided.

[LadyKulvax]

I think my opinion might have changed about Jaina, main reason is because, despite how powerful she was, what has she actually done of significant magnitude? not who she has killed but what she has been able to do.

 

Furthermore, think about what she actually does with the Force.... she relies on two things: instinct and raw power.

 

Normally this would be a good thing, however I think she was severely held back by her serious preference for lightsaber combat, so whilst Jaina is very powerful, I think i may have awarded her with too much credit.

[Aurbere]

I think my opinion might have changed about Jaina, main reason is because, despite how powerful she was, what has she actually done of significant magnitude? not who she has killed but what she has been able to do.

 

Furthermore, think about what she actually does with the Force.... she relies on two things: instinct and raw power.

 

Normally this would be a good thing, however I think she was severely held back by her serious preference for lightsaber combat, so whilst Jaina is very powerful, I think i may have awarded her with too much credit.

 

I feel the same.

[Beniboybling]

I think my opinion might have changed about Jaina, main reason is because, despite how powerful she was, what has she actually done of significant magnitude? not who she has killed but what she has been able to do.

 

Furthermore, think about what she actually does with the Force.... she relies on two things: instinct and raw power.

 

Normally this would be a good thing, however I think she was severely held back by her serious preference for lightsaber combat, so whilst Jaina is very powerful, I think i may have awarded her with too much credit.

So where does everyone stand now? Concerning what I'm aware of I'd say Exar Kun surpasses mostly accept for speed, and Vader seems to surpass her here and there, and match her in the rest aside again from speed.

[Aurbere]

So where does everyone stand now? Concerning what I'm aware of I'd say Exar Kun surpasses mostly accept for speed, and Vader seems to surpass her here and there, and match her in the rest aside again from speed.

 

I agree.

[Beniboybling]

I agree.

In what sense, Exar Kun > Vader > Jaina I presume?

[Beniboybling]

If she experienced a vision at that point then she was not cut off from the Force.

The effectiveness of the Sever Force technique is determined by the power of the wielder, and the gap between the wielder and the victim. In this case the gap was not large, even with Traya weakened. So its likely she was able to resist, however her ability to wield the Force would have been severely diminished.

 

Anyway, I don't know if Traya experienced those visions in situ or beforehand, so I won't comment any further.

Or information about only those visions is available which came true?

 

This point "always in motion is the future" is canon ground reality. This is true for all characters in the mythos.

 

Jedi are supposed to be considerably attuned to the Force because they follow the will of the Force. They are supposed to be more specialized in the matter of foresight then Sith who go against the will of the Force. In short, Jedi have advantage in this respect over Sith.

AKA, every vision Traya confers to you in the game. I'd say that's a pretty good track record of accuracy. I'm not saying that all Traya's visions are 100% true, but that she has had many many accurate predictions, often concerning events far into the future. And the fact that she communed with the dark side only makes this feat more impressive no?