The REAL Most Powerful Revisited

[Wolfninjajedi]

What makes you say that?

 

Other sources haven't shown him to have that level of TK. I'll double check though, sec.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[cs_zoltan]

In regards to? Vader can still reclaim a place on the list is we deem him superior to Jaina (see the OP.)

 

And I personally think he is.

 

Well that makes sense, I just didn't presume you would drop Jaina by 2-3 place

[Aurbere]

Other sources haven't shown him to have that level of TK. I'll double check though, sec.

 

It's still C-canon because it doesn't contradict anything.

[tunewalker]

Yeah, I see where you are coming from. But

 

Ya I have seen that, but I think the other 3 have all done better then that.

[Aurbere]

As for the current article, I would have to wait for a post about Jaina's abilities before I can say for sure (all of my information of her comes from the Wookiee, which leaves much to be desired).

[Wolfninjajedi]

It's still C-canon because it doesn't contradict anything.

 

It kinda does, because he's only shown to do it one time. Whereas elsewhere he hasn't shown that level of TK at all. But I'm gonna check again.

[Aurbere]

It kinda does, because he's only shown to do it one time. Whereas elsewhere he hasn't shown that level of TK at all. But I'm gonna check again.

 

I don't think it does. Also, that kind of argument has many holes in it.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I don't think it does. Also, that kind of argument has many holes in it.

 

Well if everyone wants to go with that then fine, but I'm gonna double check on it.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Well if everyone wants to go with that one instance then fine, but I'm gonna double check on it.

 

I see it as him pulling out all the stops, which is probably why you don't see that happen much. Plus he does a similar feat during the Battle of Coruscant. So that's twice, lol

[Beniboybling]

It's still C-canon because it doesn't contradict anything.

But as C-Canon, it should be taken with a pinch of salt.

[Aurbere]

But as C-Canon, it should be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

Wait, isn't the hierarchy gone?

 

Whatever, personally, I just take it as it is. I see no reason to say that it didn't happen.

[Beniboybling]

Wait, isn't the hierarchy gone?

 

Whatever, personally, I just take it as it is. I see no reason to say that it didn't happen.

It hasn't been finalised yet, for all we know this series is N-Canon. Anyway its a question of accuracy, really.

 

And yeah, I'm not so sure. He seems to project Force Waves that destroy hundreds if not thousands of droids... whereas his powers in TCW are far more subdued, as are everyone's for that matter.

 

And regardless of canon, I think this statement will always ring true:

 

The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.'

 

I like to think that that particular fight was seen through the eyes of the kid on the hill, but regardless I think he'd all agree that the 2003 Clone Wars series is decidedly abstract indeed.

[Aurbere]

It hasn't been finalised yet, for all we know this series is N-Canon. Anyway its a question of accuracy, really.

 

And yeah, I'm not so sure. He seems to project Force Waves that destroy hundreds if not thousands of droids... whereas his powers in TCW are far more subdued, as are everyone's for that matter.

 

And regardless of canon, I think this statement will always ring true:

 

The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.'

 

I like to think that that particular fight was seen through the eyes of the kid on the hill, but regardless I think he'd all agree that the 2003 Clone Wars series is decidedly abstract indeed.

 

Well, I'm not going to ignore until there's a proper reason to do so.

[Beniboybling]

Well, I'm not going to ignore until there's a proper reason to do so.

I think that's a proper reason... its exaggerated.

 

But anyway, lets discuss the matter at hand. Anyone forth coming on Jaina? If I recall the original argument was that Jaina could probably have defeated Vader as Luke did. But I bring that into question. We mustn't be fooled by the lack of fanfare and pomp surrounding that duel, these individuals remained Force heavyweights.

 

And then we have the fact that Luke had the advantage of being able to mirror Vader's every move.

[tunewalker]

I think that's a proper reason... its exaggerated.

 

But anyway, lets discuss the matter at hand. Anyone forth coming on Jaina? If I recall the original argument was that Jaina could probably have defeated Vader as Luke did. But I bring that into question. We mustn't be fooled by the lack of fanfare and pomp surrounding that duel, these individuals remained Force heavyweights.

 

And then we have the fact that Luke had the advantage of being able to mirror Vader's every move.

 

I think Lady has most of the information on Jaina, so want to wait for her, my information on Jaina is mostly when she was a kid.... by the way Jacen and Jaina as kids were adorable.... Jacen's fall is tragic as hell.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wait Beni I thought this was about Force Usage only? Edited February 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Wait Beni I thought this was about Force Usage only? Why bring up dueling?

Well lightsaber duels and Force Abilities are strongly interrelated. I was just making the point there I suppose that Luke had some significant advantages...

 

But yeah.

[Aurbere]

I think that's a proper reason... its exaggerated.

 

Agree to disagree.

 

But anyway, lets discuss the matter at hand. Anyone forth coming on Jaina? If I recall the original argument was that Jaina could probably have defeated Vader as Luke did. But I bring that into question. We mustn't be fooled by the lack of fanfare and pomp surrounding that duel, these individuals remained Force heavyweights.

 

And then we have the fact that Luke had the advantage of being able to mirror Vader's every move.

 

I'll wait until the Jaina arguments come in before I say anything.

[Aurbere]

Well lightsaber duels and Force Abilities are strongly interrelated. I was just making the point there I suppose that Luke had some significant advantages...

 

But yeah.

 

Luke also later admitted that Vader could have killed him if he wanted to. I think this is true, because I doubt Vader wanted to actually kill Luke during that duel.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Luke also later admitted that Vader could have killed him if he wanted to. I think this is true, because I doubt Vader wanted to actually kill Luke during that duel.

 

Actually....I have something that proves that statement to be a load of ***...but I can't find it now, or it proves that statement isn't completely 100%. It's shown though in ROTJ novel, they were fighting as equals up until Luke tapped into his anger and overwhelmed Vader.

 

Of course take note, all they were doing was straight up dueling. They both were holding back their Force Powers.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Actually....I have something that proves that statement to be a load of ***...but I can't find it now, or it proves that statement isn't completely 100%. It's shown though in ROTJ novel, they were fighting as equals up until Luke tapped into his anger and overwhelmed Vader.

I think both are compatible, after all we don't see Vader using telekinesis at all here.

[Aurbere]

Actually....I have something that proves that statement to be a load of ***...but I can't find it now, or it proves that statement isn't completely 100%. It's shown though in ROTJ novel, they were fighting as equals up until Luke tapped into his anger and overwhelmed Vader.

 

Of course take note, all they were doing was straight up dueling. They both were holding back their Force Powers.

 

Like Beni said, Vader doesn't even use telekinesis during the duel. And like I said, I doubt Vader was planning on killing Luke.

 

Edit: I think Luke's opinion holds some weight, taking everything into account.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Aurbere

[Wolfninjajedi]

Like Beni said, Vader doesn't even use telekinesis during the duel. And like I said, I doubt Vader was planning on killing Luke.

 

Edit: I think Luke's opinion holds some weight, taking everything into account.

 

Yes but the ROTJ novel states not a character's opinon but what the story is saying...which says..

 

You are unwise to lower your defenses,” Vader warned. His anger was layered, now—he did not want to win if the boy was not battling to the fullest. But if winning meant he had to kill a boy who wouldn't fight...then he could do that, too.

 

--Taken from Return of the Jedi

 

Also...

 

Moving back a little bit on Anakin(as a Padawan) and that Conqueror Dreadnought feat. It has repulsorlifts yes? So...wouldn't this feat be very impressive, considering that Anakin was going against the repulsors?

Edited February 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Do i have to quote RotJ again.... Vader gave everything he had. Even during that Duel Luke thought Vader was holding back and Vader's thoughts said other wise. The idea that Vader held back at all is a load of bull. Their are 2 reasons Vader didnt use his TK against Luke, 1 he couldnt because Luke's defenses against such attacks were to strong and 2 there wasnt anything in the room for Vader to effectively use as a projectile that Luke couldnt have either dodged or deflected with his own TK abilities.

 

I will pull out the Novel if neccassary Vader gave his 100%, and Luke gave his 100% trying not to fight. Luke was the more powerful of the 2 on that day, hell just weeks later he was capable of Holding up AT-ST's while battling with his saber. This IS something he likely would have been capable of in RotJ if he had the need to do so as he had no force appiphanies before hand and no extra training AND was still suffering from the Emperors lightning so he was likely WEAKER then when he faced off against Vader at the time.

 

 

Luke's belief is not the reality. He states in the RotJ Novel that he believes Vader is holding back and thats the only reason he isnt dead already. Then we see into Vader's mind about how he is trying as hard as he can but Luke's defenses are just impregnable by Vader and it frustrates him, but he isnt going to let his Frustration to get the best of him, he is going to calculate his moves but he isnt going to hold back because its clear to him if he does he wont be able to convince Luke to join him. To top it all off it becomes almost personal for Vader as he needs to prove to HIMSELF that he made the right choice by going Dark Side, beating his son to him at that point becomes all about showing that Dark Side is and will always be superior to the Light. Vader holds nothing back Luke holds even with him on all levels prior to pulling on the Dark side and after it he completely topples Vaders power.

 

 

Edit: the quote from wolf pretty much even says that Vader is willing to kill his son and go all out, but that Luke is the REAL one who isnt trying. I feel it akin to if any one saw Dragon Ball Z the Cell saga when Goku asks Gohan if at any point he was unable to keep track of Goku and Cell to which of course the boy says No.... but thats only because you 2 werent fighting at your fullest. To which Goku responds I dont know about Cell but I was giving it my all, the reason you did not think i was giving it my best is because you were comparing your own power to mine and found it lower then you atticipated. This is very likely what Luke did with Vader. He thought Vader was stronger then he was.

Edited February 6, 2014 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

OK guys this isn't really relevant so lets get back on course, if we are unsure concerning Jaina vs Vader lets see if we can reach a conclusion concerning Jaina vs Exar Kun who is after all first in the list.