The BattleZone Winner's Bracket Match 2: Darth Plagueis vs. Darth Malgus

[Beniboybling]

Might be remembering wrong, but wasn't it Plageuis who was so fast, he stopped Rain (In a heavy thunderstorm) from even touching him, over the course of a few minutes? And only broke a sweat afterwards?

I mentioned that, you remember correctly.

[LadyKulvax]

My point here is that Malgus is FAR more powerful than a whole bunch of you are suggesting, Plagueis doesn't steam roll here, not by a mile.

 

Malgus is a tank on par with Vader without any of his weaknesses.

 

My point was not to make a direct comparison between the two but to make the point that this is far from a Plagueis roflstomp like some have made this out to be, Malgus can more than hold his own here.

[tunewalker]

Actually Malgus much like Vader chained telekinesis as well as lightning into his lightsaber combat, he is highly proficient at using both simultaneously.

 

He was effective enough in this to fight a prime version of the Imperial strike team that took down Master Revan and freeze three of them at a time, his performance against the Imperials is highly impressive and squarely puts him above the likes of Revan in battle performance.

 

There are many many times when he chains powerful Force attacks into his lightsaber combat and I don't believe Plagueis has that kind of an advantage, clearly Malgus can pull off that style of fighting just as well as Plagueis.

 

"not to say Malgus cant or wasnt known for chaining force attacks into is saber sequences because again any who knows Malgus knows thats not true." quoting myself here, I just think Plagueis's Niman usage and prefrence for Force attacks when saber combat fails makes him SLIGHTLY more prone to it. Again just saying everything you just said here is exactly what i originally said .

[tunewalker]

My point here is that Malgus is FAR more powerful than a whole bunch of you are suggesting, Plagueis doesn't steam roll here, not by a mile.

 

Malgus is a tank on par with Vader without any of his weaknesses.

 

My point was not to make a direct comparison between the two but to make the point that this is far from a Plagueis roflstomp like some have made this out to be, Malgus can more than hold his own here.

 

I personally agree with this and have been saying so from the start. I think Plageuis wins but its not an easy win, he will be battered bruised exhausted if any outside help came in say a special forces member with a blaster to help out Malgus Plageuis would lose, or say a stormy day just happened to strike the tree just above Plageuis on that particular day Malgus would win so on and so forth. If they were to fight 100 times I think Plageuis would win 55 while Malgus would win the other 45.

 

Edited for woopsie dumb dumb math mistake.

Edited January 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

Well I think Plagueis can win this battle fairly assuredly 9 times out of 10 and is more on par with Yoda, but whatever.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well I think Plagueis can win this battle fairly assuredly 9 times out of 10 and is more on par with Yoda, but whatever.

 

Plagueis is good, but not that good.

[Beniboybling]

Plagueis is good, but not that good.

I don't believe he would win but he'd be able to hold his own. After all he's #6 on the Most Powerful Force Users list.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I don't believe he would win but he'd be able to hold his own. After all he's #6 on the Most Powerful Force Users list.

 

He could yeah.

[LadyKulvax]

Personally I think Plagueis' position as the winner of this fight is a very slippery slope, I personally believe all it takes is for Malgus to get Plagueis with a bolt of lightning, force him into slugging out and going defensively, Malgus can close the gap and then Plagueis is in trouble, his Force Barriers have proven to be average and Malgus has shown great proficiency with smashing through them, yes any major injuries Plagueis can heal, but I do not believe he will gain a long enough reprieve, even with a well place Force Push, Malgus has proven the ability to get right back up and is highly proficient with Force Charge.

 

There are many situations here and I think this is very 50/50.

Edited January 30, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

Personally I think Plagueis' position as the winner of this fight is a very slippery slope, I personally believe all it takes is for Malgus to get Plagueis with a bolt of lightning, force him into slugging out and going defensively, Malgus can close the gap and then Plagueis is in trouble, his Force Barriers have proven to be average and Malgus has shown great proficiency with smashing through them, yes any major injuries Plagueis can heal, but I do not believe he will gain a long enough reprieve, even with a well place Force Push, Malgus has proven the ability to get right back up and is highly proficient with Force Charge.

 

There are many situations here and I think this is very 50/50.

I think Plagueis is more than capable of blocking a bolt of lightning, not that it would do any lasting damage unless it hit his re-breather. But in all honesty with a lightsaber in his hand and a knowledge and skill of tutaminis it seems unlikely.

 

I'm not sure what evidence suggests Plagueis can't withstand a lightsaber assault from Malgus. He is a master of his respective form and showed excellent defensive capabilities against Venamis, and in the end its simply a case of withstanding the force of the attack, which given the Force ability he possesses should not be so difficult.

 

If Aryn Leener and Ven Zallow can hack, Plagueis can too.

 

Weak Force barriers? Perhaps some evidence is needed here. I may be mistaken but I don't even recall Plagueis' barriers ever being tested, he only engaged with a Force User once in the Plagueis novel, discounting Sidious. Heck counting Sidious, despite being intoxicated he fended of Sidious' full blown maelstrom if I recall.

 

As I have already explained, Plagueis needs no reprieve. He managed to stabilize his bodily functions after suffering grievous injury while fending off an army of assassins, and did so with little difficulty.

 

All in all I think a more likely scenario is that Plagueis weathers Malgus' lightsaber attacks while responding with his own Force-enhanced ferocity which Malgus is more likely to crumple under and suffer more grievous injury. And in that fails he can overwhelm him with TK barrages, sonic screams and Force Lightning.

 

I feel however that in the end Plagueis will just end up winning the lightsaber engagement.

[Aurbere]

i think plagueis is more than capable of blocking a bolt of lightning, not that it would do any lasting damage unless it hit his re-breather.

 

...

 

darth plagueis: (as requested, i decided to remove plagueis’ transpirator from the equation.)

 

-_-

[Selenial]

...

 

 

 

-_-

 

You're right, these people don't even read anymore

 

Even I saw that

[Aurbere]

You're right, these people don't even read anymore

 

Even I saw that

 

I'm beginning to wonder why I write them if no one reads them. Suppose there's the fun that comes with it.

[Beniboybling]

...

 

 

 

-_-

Oh lol, I only really read the one's I don't know much about. For these I just read the edges, looking for something to contradict. But, on that topic, and maybe its a little late, but there is evidence to suggest Plagueis became more powerful with his rebreather.

 

Seen through the Force, he was a nuclear oval of mottled light, a rotating orb of terrifying energy. If the Maladian attack had weakened him physically, it had also helped to shape his etheric body into a vessel sufficiently strong to contain the full power of the dark side. Determined never again to be caught off guard, he had trained himself to go without sleep, and had devoted two standard decades to day-and-night experimentation with midi-chlorian manipulation and attempts to wrest a few last secrets from the Force, so that he—and presumably his human apprentice—might live forever. His inward turn had enabled him to master the equally powerful energies of order and disorder, creation and entropy, life and death.

 

And in fact, this was twenty years after the Maladin attack. The Jensaarai uses this version too so...

[Aurbere]

Oh lol, I only really read the one's I don't know much about. For these I just read the edges, looking for something to contradict. But, on that topic, and maybe its a little late, but there is evidence to suggest Plagueis became more powerful with his rebreather.

 

Seen through the Force, he was a nuclear oval of mottled light, a rotating orb of terrifying energy. If the Maladian attack had weakened him physically, it had also helped to shape his etheric body into a vessel sufficiently strong to contain the full power of the dark side. Determined never again to be caught off guard, he had trained himself to go without sleep, and had devoted two standard decades to day-and-night experimentation with midi-chlorian manipulation and attempts to wrest a few last secrets from the Force, so that he—and presumably his human apprentice—might live forever. His inward turn had enabled him to master the equally powerful energies of order and disorder, creation and entropy, life and death.

 

And in fact, this was twenty years after the Maladin attack. The Jensaarai uses this version too so...

 

I had mentioned (well, hinted at) this back when you first asked, but you asked for it.

[Beniboybling]

I had mentioned (well, hinted at) this back when you first asked, but you asked for it.

Oh, well, thanks. Edited January 30, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

I had mentioned (well, hinted at) this back when you first asked, but you asked for it.

 

I thought you meant we got Prime plageuis, just without a respirator 0.0

[Aurbere]

Oh, well, thanks.

 

Well, let's establish some B-canon (or does Z-canon sound cooler?). Like we did with Revan in the Kaggath, if Plagueis wins, we'll put his transpirator back on. I would write that into a 'Plagueis wins' scenario.

 

Sound good?

[Aurbere]

I thought you meant we got Prime plageuis, just without a respirator 0.0

 

That's technically what we have now. As can be observed in the Physicality and Force abilities sections.

[Beniboybling]

I thought you meant we got Prime plageuis, just without a respirator 0.0

Oh no, that would just be unfair. At the core my suggestion was that we take characters at the height of their power as opposed to an arbitrary point where all their disabilities were accounted for by they weren't quite dead.

[Beniboybling]

Well, let's establish some B-canon (or does Z-canon sound cooler?). Like we did with Revan in the Kaggath, if Plagueis wins, we'll put his transpirator back on. I would write that into a 'Plagueis wins' scenario.

 

Sound good?

Or we could just continue with the assumption that this is prime Plagueis with respirator in toe?

 

Not sure what the above achieves...

 

And yeah, definitely Z-Canon.

[Aurbere]

Or we could just continue with the assumption that this is prime Plagueis with respirator in toe?

 

Not sure what the above achieves...

 

And yeah, definitely Z-Canon.

 

Too late for that.

[LadyKulvax]

Personally I think Malgus would likely take the early advantage and eventually the lightsaber duel will turn into a bout of Force Prowess, Malgus is more than capable of matching him with the Force, Plagueis will do some damage but that will only make Malgus much more powerful, do not under-estimate the power Malgus gains from Dark Rage like many others, this ability greatly empowers Malgus as we have seen before.

 

If Malgus is flung into a Dark Rage then I don't actually see how Plagueis could win, Malgus will get faster, stronger and his Force abilities will pack a much larger punch.

 

I also think that if Malgus does use Force Maelstrom then Plagueis is in dire trouble, given the arena they are fighting in, he'd be hard pressed to find any cover and his Force Speed can only do so much, Malgus will make a storm, with the desert and the corpses being used to not only hamper Plagueis but smash into him and cause damage, not to mention the Lightning itself, the damage would be severe and would gravely injure him if not kill him.

 

These are merely multiple possible outcomes here but as you can see, Malgus can more than hold his own with the Force, Plagueis will seriously need to watch his own Force Barriers because if Malgus breaks through them then a Force Crush or a Force Lightning blast strong enough would kill him and Malgus' Force attacks were severe.

Edited January 31, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Aurbere]

In my opinion, the possibility for a Force Maelstrom coming into play is low. It's a shame there isn't much information on his usage of it. Just a picture and text saying he used it against the unready.

[Beniboybling]

Personally I think Malgus would likely take the early advantage and eventually the lightsaber duel will turn into a bout of Force Prowess, Malgus is more than capable of matching him with the Force, Plagueis will do some damage but that will only make Malgus much more powerful, do not under-estimate the power Malgus gains from Dark Rage like many others, this ability greatly empowers Malgus as we have seen before.

 

If Malgus is flung into a Dark Rage then I don't actually see how Plagueis could win, Malgus will get faster, stronger and his Force abilities will pack a much larger punch.

 

I also think that if Malgus does use Force Maelstrom then Plagueis is in dire trouble, given the arena they are fighting in, he'd be hard pressed to find any cover and his Force Speed can only do so much, Malgus will make a storm, with the desert and the corpses being used to not only hamper Plagueis but smash into him and cause damage, not to mention the Lightning itself, the damage would be severe and would gravely injure him if not kill him.

 

These are merely multiple possible outcomes here but as you can see, Malgus can more than hold his own with the Force, Plagueis will seriously need to watch his own Force Barriers because if Malgus breaks through them then a Force Crush or a Force Lightning blast strong enough would kill him and Malgus' Force attacks were severe.

Again we shouldn't exaggerate the capabilities of Force Rage. We have to remember that Malgus is not capable of growing exponentially more powerful, he has limits, and Plagueis is beyond those limits. Even when pumped on rage Plagueis will still have a superior command over the Force and therefore be able to deal out superior attacks.

 

Malgus will get faster, stronger etc. yes, but Plagueis will remain the fastest, the strongest etc. and even at the very height of his rage individuals such as Ven Zallow have been able to withstand the force of his attacks.

 

Plagueis should in all likelihood be able to do the same, but again he can use evasive tactics to simply negate that strength advantage completely. As well as use Malgus' building rage to exploit is tunnel vision.

 

Force Maelstrom, if unleashed, really shouldn't be a problem for Plagueis. I think we need to remember that simply through the sheer power he commands Plagueis can just withstand these attacks. He would simply have to create a Force Barrier around him to protect himself, which he has demonstrated to be capable of doing.

 

Remembering that Force Users always have passive Force Barriers surrounding them, even if Plagueis is struck by lightning he will not die - this is why Force Users aren't reduced to ash or irrevocable scarred in such scenarios. And this barrier would protect his rebreather as well. Plagueis would have to be in a weakened condition.

 

In such a way Malgus would merely expend his energy, as well as provide Plagueis with an opening to strike, in fact I expect he could simply shatter Malgus' concentrate with a Force Wave as he gathers his energies.

 

And again Plagueis has an exceptional command over the Force. With his Force Lightning he can probably tear Malgus' prosthetic to shreds. He can barrage Malgus with objects before Malgus has a chance to blink and then be on top of him before he can recover and he'll likely send Malgus flying across the arena and slamming into walls on multiple occasions. Its only a matter of time before Plagueis manages to impale him as he recovers.

 

Really if this comes down to a Force-based engagement I feel Plagueis will deflect Malgus attacks and respond with a maelstrom of energy of his own, projectiles, Force waves, lightning, Malgus will struggle to resist but eventually will be overwhelmed and literally blown away - refer to the Hope trailer for details.

 

Even in a lightsaber engagement, Plagueis can still win. He'll voluntarily fall back on the defensive, deflecting, dodging and redirecting Malgus' attacks, using his frustration to his advantage as he grows more sloppy and brutish, exploiting that inaccuracy to mount his own offensives, not only pushing Malgus to the limits of his strength but exploiting the holes he leaves in his armor to deal a killing blow. Throw in a few Force-based attacks and its a done deal.