Armor components for strikes?

[Tenacity]

Just an idea that came up earlier today when thinking about possible ways to help strike fighters out. Obviously scouts have their specialization in evasion to increase their survivability and effective health. Gunships seem to be a little more focused on special shields, with things like feedback and fortress shields. Strikes dont really stand out in the survivability arena though.

 

Currently strikes have three shield types: quick charge (which I think everyone gets), directional, and reactive plating (the only one that is unique to the strike fighter class). Why not change things up a bit to emphasize an armor focus for strike fighters over shield or evasion bonuses?

 

Add an extra couple of shield components for strike fighters that emphasize armor/hull bonuses over shield or evasion bonuses.

 

I'd go with these:

 

1. Reactive Armor (Replaces reactive plating)

Increases hull hit points by 25%

Increases armor rating by 25%

Active: Reduces all damage dealt to hull by 25% for 10 seconds. 1 minute cooldown.

 

2. Ablative Armor

Increases hull hit points by 25%

Increases armor rating by 25%

Active: Reduces damage taken from rockets, missiles, torpedoes, mines, and slug railguns, by 75% for 15 seconds. 1 minute cooldown.

 

3. Reflective Armor

Increases hull hit points by 25%

Increases armor rating by 25%

Active: Reduces damage taken from blasters by 75% for 10 seconds. 1 minute cooldown.

 

 

Ultimately, the idea is to give strike fighters a better way to increase their effective health. Scouts increase effective health through evasion (both passive and through distortion field) - the counter to that is accuracy boosts (which come as weapon upgrades or copilot abilities). Gunships increase their effective health through powerful shields and a higher base hitpoint level. The counter to that is either bypass or shield piercing. Strike fighters dont really have a way to increase effective health at the same rate as the other ship types though, which leaves them lagging behind in survivability and thus effectiveness.

 

The counter to these armor types, obviously, would be the upgrades some weapons have that give 100% armor penetration.

 

 

Thoughts?

[Kain_Turinbar]

There is so much 100% armor ignore that these wouldn't be used.

[MrWoolie]

Just like Kain Turibar said, the majority of pilots have access to armor penetration anyways ether as a mandatory upgrade along the line, or as an optional perk that is obviously superior due to turrets having 50% DR.

 

If you take a loot at charged plating (not "reactive" btw), you will see that is would actually be useful if not for armor penetration that actually end up reducing the effective health of Strikes.

 

However, I think your ideas would be great, if all these benefits mentioned were added on as an option to charge plating. It could ether work like directional shield, or being only able to active one at a time throw the skill tree. The hit point increase is a major necessity due to the bleed through nature of Charged plating. Instead of 25% DR, just make it nullify all Shield penetration buffs instead up to a point of ~ 25%.(Ending up 10% regardless in most cases) That way, a Strike would not get one shot killed with by a Slugger Rail since it have a 30% shield and 100% armor penetration.

 

Generally, the only positive to Strike fighter survivability is their incredible shield regen rate. Since almost everyone carry some form of Shield and Armor Pen in at least one ship in their fleet, it would be great to have a shield that counters that. Instead of being vulnerable to penetration attacks, it would be nice to have a build that can say: "Look, I know you are going to bypass my shields so I am just going to have 10% bleed through no matter what and make you waste your perk."

[Gavin_Kelvar]

Just an idea that came up earlier today when thinking about possible ways to help strike fighters out. Obviously scouts have their specialization in evasion to increase their survivability and effective health. Gunships seem to be a little more focused on special shields, with things like feedback and fortress shields. Strikes dont really stand out in the survivability arena though.

 

An interesting thing: both the Type 2 scout and the Type 1 GS (the first one that was released) have access to both the reactor and armor components. These two ships seem to be the primary adversaries of the strikers so perhaps a reason the striker seems to not stand out is because they get either the reactor or armor but not both (depending on type).

 

I like your ideas but I think both striker types need to be given the reactor and armor component in order for it to truly be a good buff to strikers for several reasons:

1) the Type 2 striker (Pike) can't maximize the power of 2/3 of the available shield components because they have armor instead of the reactor which provide no benefit to shield related stats

 

2) Likewise the Type 1 striker (Star Guard) can't maximize the power of charged plating's active because they don't have an armor component and while the reactor component lets them get maximum benefit from the shield buffing aspect the Type 2 striker has the inverse problem (they have the armor component so get the maximum benefit of the active but can't get maximum benefit from the passive shield strength buff)

 

3) your suggestions focus on damage reduction and hull health stats so only the Type 2 striker would be able to get maximum benefit.

 

Overall I think points 1 & 2 are the primary reason the striker's surviveability isn't that impressive, especially when comparing them to ships that have both the reactor and armor components.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Gavin_Kelvar

[mr_sim]

reactor are only minor components anyway so why not.

[Verain]

Reactor is minor, but what he described is the shield component.

 

Ex shield: Distortion, directional, quick charge.

 

Ex reactor: +30% health, +whatever who cares recharge, etc.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

Reactor is minor, but what he described is the shield component.

 

Ex shield: Distortion, directional, quick charge.

 

Ex reactor: +30% health, +whatever who cares recharge, etc.

 

I believe sim was responding to my suggestion of giving strikers both reactor and armor minor components.

[Zharik]

Reactor is minor, but what he described is the shield component.

 

Ex shield: Distortion, directional, quick charge.

 

Ex reactor: +30% health, +whatever who cares recharge, etc.

 

I said on another thread once to get rid of thrusters and give strikes armor (and 5% better base speed/turning). This way they can get a +10% boost to speed OR turning (from the tier 3 engines) and get the benefit from armor.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Zharik

[elthenar]

Nothing will come close to distortion field as massive evasion has no real counter. The is armor piercing everywhere and a fair bit of shield piercing too, but there is nothing that will completely ignore evasion the same way that many components ignore armor and shields. You could have a clicky that gives 200k shields and 99% armor resists and still die in seconds, but if you click a 6 second distortion field you are going to live for 6 seconds.

[Zharik]

Nothing will come close to distortion field as massive evasion has no real counter. The is armor piercing everywhere and a fair bit of shield piercing too, but there is nothing that will completely ignore evasion the same way that many components ignore armor and shields. You could have a clicky that gives 200k shields and 99% armor resists and still die in seconds, but if you click a 6 second distortion field you are going to live for 6 seconds.

 

You are not immortal while distortion field is active. I've died to a gunship mid barrel roll with distortion field up. (slug I think, though AOE damage from ion is possible, I was very damaged)

[BrianDavion]

I said on another thread once to get rid of thrusters and give strikes armor (and 5% better base speed/turning). This way they can get a +10% boost to speed OR turning (from the tier 3 engines) and get the benefit from armor.

 

 

I kinda like my thrusters. and certinly wouldn't trade them for armor.

[Lendul]

I kinda like my thrusters. and certinly wouldn't trade them for armor.

You get both with a Pike

[Verain]

A lot of people are still confused. They say "strike" when they mean "starguard".

 

The starguard has:

 

Capacitor, Magazine, Reactor, Thrusters.

 

The pike has:

 

Capacitor, Magazine, Armor, Thrusters.

 

For example of what a ship that is actually good has, look at the Flashfire:

 

Capacitor, Armor, Reactor, Thrusters

 

 

There are six total components. Each ship has exactly four of them, and no two ships in the same class have the same four.

 

Capacitor, Armor, Reactor, Thrusters- these are the "good" ones. You also have Sensors and Magazine. Sensors makes very little difference (past 15km you can't damp, but the others aren't so bad), and Magazine is generally bad.

 

It is odd that both strikes get exactly one defensive component.

[elthenar]

You are not immortal while distortion field is active. I've died to a gunship mid barrel roll with distortion field up. (slug I think, though AOE damage from ion is possible, I was very damaged)

 

Could be a touch of latency. I've shot people on the other side of solid objects a few times when some server lag set in.

 

Still, one exception does not disprove the general rule.

[elthenar]

A lot of people are still confused. They say "strike" when they mean "starguard".

 

The starguard has:

 

Capacitor, Magazine, Reactor, Thrusters.

 

The pike has:

 

Capacitor, Magazine, Armor, Thrusters.

 

For example of what a ship that is actually good has, look at the Flashfire:

 

Capacitor, Armor, Reactor, Thrusters

 

 

There are six total components. Each ship has exactly four of them, and no two ships in the same class have the same four.

 

Capacitor, Armor, Reactor, Thrusters- these are the "good" ones. You also have Sensors and Magazine. Sensors makes very little difference (past 15km you can't damp, but the others aren't so bad), and Magazine is generally bad.

 

It is odd that both strikes get exactly one defensive component.

 

Not only does the flashfire get the good mod selection, but it the best available choice in every category is open to it. Then combine that with massive native speed, agility and boost duration. You have a fighter that will win any dogfight and can escape from most bad situations with the best firepower, defensive and speed mods. It unequivocally makes the strike fight obsolete.

 

People want to say "BUT GUNSHIPS?!?!?!"

 

I've never seen a gunship get 30+ kills and over 100k damage while also having cap points, not even close, but I've seen it does several times by the good flashfire pilots.

[Zharik]

Could be a touch of latency. I've shot people on the other side of solid objects a few times when some server lag set in.

 

Still, one exception does not disprove the general rule.

 

It is not Godmode, immortality, etc. It is a massive boost to your direct-fire weapon defenses. Even vs those it is not immunity.

[elthenar]

It is not Godmode, immortality, etc. It is a massive boost to your direct-fire weapon defenses. Even vs those it is not immunity.

 

It's enough for government work. When you blow your cooldown and are rocking 130% plus evasion, you have nothing to fear from lasers. Missiles would seem to be the counter, but good luck sticking to a scout long enough to get a lock

[Zharik]

It's enough for government work. When you blow your cooldown and are rocking 130% plus evasion, you have nothing to fear from lasers. Missiles would seem to be the counter, but good luck sticking to a scout long enough to get a lock

 

Unless they are in the middle of a "missile evading maneuver, it *should* cap at 116%, there are things that can change this though. Copilot is the biggie, with sensor beacons being the other thing I can think of off the top of my head.

 

As for missile locks, that's where teamwork comes in... let the guy trying for a missile lock hang back a ways while his buddy occupies him with the proverbial dogfight. Or use cluster missiles - 1.29 sec missile lock when upgraded. That's pretty fast.

[Verain]

So to kill as scout you need three guys missile locking him in sequence and hope he doesn't boost too far away or turn a corner?

 

Uhhhhh.......

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I kinda like my thrusters. and certinly wouldn't trade them for armor.

 

I'd trade the magazine component for armor (or for reactor if we're talking about the Pike) but otherwise I agree I certainly wouldn't trade my thrusters for armor/reactor.

 

I kinda hope that the Type 3s are basically "make your own ship" where you have access to all the components available to your class and can choose which ones you want (still keeping to the limit of 2 primaries or 2 secondaries, 4 minor components etc.) Of course that will only work if they balance out the things that are unbalanced first.

[Delta_V]

I'd trade the magazine component for armor (or for reactor if we're talking about the Pike) but otherwise I agree I certainly wouldn't trade my thrusters for armor/reactor.

 

I kinda hope that the Type 3s are basically "make your own ship" where you have access to all the components available to your class and can choose which ones you want (still keeping to the limit of 2 primaries or 2 secondaries, 4 minor components etc.) Of course that will only work if they balance out the things that are unbalanced first.

 

That's why the suggestion was to buff their base speed/turning, so overall performance stays the same despite the absence of thrusters, while the addition of armor (to the Star Guard) or reactor (to the Pike) would make them more durable.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

That's why the suggestion was to buff their base speed/turning, so overall performance stays the same despite the absence of thrusters, while the addition of armor (to the Star Guard) or reactor (to the Pike) would make them more durable.

 

Fair enough, I was just saying that if you were going to loose a component it would be preferable to loosing the magazine than thrusters (if you kept the thrusters and gave the 5% buff you would also be buffing their mobility nicely, another weak point for the striker). Either way I think we agree that having both the reactor and armor components would be a very nice buff.