It's your fault if you're on a PvE server and you get yourself flagged.

[Ancaglon]

The H4 is of no concern to me since I was only doing those dailies on my two lowbies on a different server, where I know no one and have no guild. It's impossible to find a Heroic group for someone my level.

 

Funny, I was able to PUG it on a level 21 Sentinel, a level 29 Sorceror and a level 37 Juggernaut. Maybe people can see you can't play well and don't want to group with you?

[Reno_Tarshil]

Funny, I was able to PUG it on a level 21 Sentinel, a level 29 Sorceror and a level 37 Juggernaut. Maybe people can see you can't play well and don't want to group with you?

 

Or maybe people don't know who I am? I keep to myself. Like I said the H4 is irrelevant to me since most ask for 55's there is no point to pick it up.

 

And if people thought I couldn't play well, I wouldn't have been able to get into the OPs group now would I?

[Halinalle]

Funny, I was able to PUG it on a level 21 Sentinel, a level 29 Sorceror and a level 37 Juggernaut. Maybe people can see you can't play well and don't want to group with you?

 

I wouldn't want to be healer in group that has tank who is unable to aoe taunt.

 

It takes a lot of time for sub-50 characters to find a group for that heroic. Especially since mobs will always be on level of highest level character in group.

[Reno_Tarshil]

A good game however, will adapt and change so that the players, who are trying to avoid PvP are not accidently subject to PvP.

 

Noone is blaming others but you.. you start your thread with "It's your fault..." so you are the one to put the blame on someone... and you are asking players to hinder themselves by asking them to not use part of their skills so they are required to be less effective than possible just to be safe from abuse.

 

I do not need to blame anyone to make a reasonable request for change.

 

It's called tough love. I'm here to help players overcome adversity in these dailies because they don't want to get flagged so I'm providing them with the what to do and what not to do during these dailies.

 

Since everyone keeps overlooking it, i'll say it again. These mobs die so easily that you don't need to use your AOE on them thus cancelling out any sort of hindurance you can think of, unless you're stubborn and refuse to switch from an AOE spec to a single target spec knowing full well you're risking getting flagged.

 

People are free to ask for change but I disagree with if it's needed when the issue is easy to avoid.

[Ancaglon]

Or maybe people don't know who I am? I keep to myself. Like I said the H4 is irrelevant to me since most ask for 55's there is no point to pick it up.

 

And if people thought I couldn't play well, I wouldn't have been able to get into the OPs group now would I?

 

Unlike Sir Copperfield (or, it seems, yourself), I didn't have to introduce my lowbie alts by saying who I was -- 2 of the 3 aren't even guilded -- and I formed the groups, and had no real problems getting them done.

 

As for the SM Operation, depending on time of day, they'll take anyone of any level, 1 DPS of any level can't do too much to hurt a 16-man Ops group that just wants a warm body to fill the last slot.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Ancaglon

[Reno_Tarshil]

I wouldn't want to be healer in group that has tank who is unable to aoe taunt.

 

It takes a lot of time for sub-50 characters to find a group for that heroic. Especially since mobs will always be on level of highest level character in group.

 

Unless you get lucky and find a group around your level it would be a waste to try looking when so many groups want 55's only anyways.

[DataBeaver]

Again you don't need to use your AOE's on these mobs anyways they die pretty easily to basic single target attacks. Play smarter and you won't get flagged. No one to blame but yourself if you get flagged because you wanted to AOE.

You know, there's an interesting analogue in the real world. Certain sects of Islam are of the opinion that if a woman dresses in revealing clothes (such as a short skirt and t-shirt in the summer) and gets raped in the street, it's the woman's fault and the offender should go free. They hold that this applies even to western countries, where dressing in such a way is considered normal. Would you agree? If you don't, then where's the crucial difference?

[Reno_Tarshil]

Unlike Sir Copperfield (or, it seems, yourself), I didn't have to introduce my lowbie alts by saying who I was -- 2 of the 3 aren't even guilded -- and I formed the groups, and had no real problems getting them done.

 

As for the SM Operation, depending on time of day, they'll take anyone of any level, 1 DPS of any level can't do too much to hurt a 16-man Ops group that just wants a warm body to fill the last slot.

 

I wasn't introducting my alts at all, I was merely pointing out that my 2 lowbie toons have no issue doing dailies aside from the Heroic which I don't bother with.

 

I was in an op that had 3 under level 30 characters and we did just fine. Not really shure where you're going with this though...

[Reno_Tarshil]

You know, there's an interesting analogue in the real world. Certain sects of Islam are of the opinion that if a woman dresses in revealing clothes (such as a short skirt and t-shirt in the summer) and gets raped in the street, it's the woman's fault and the offender should go free. They hold that this applies even to western countries, where dressing in such a way is considered normal. Would you agree? If you don't, then where's the crucial difference?

 

Are you seriously trying to apply a rape comparison to questing in a video game?

[Kamatsu]

I am not wrong. Because if your attacks are hitting a flagged player any which way you will get flagged. This is the same for most MMO's. You do not need to flag yourself first to do it.

 

I'm sorry, but your incorrect - as has been pointed out. Most decent MMO's do not work this way, most MMO's I've ever played that have had Open World style PvP but also had PvE servers, where open world pvp is not allowed, have it set so you have to either/or flag yourself for PvP or directly target and attack the flagged person.

 

Take WoW for example (yes, I'm using *that* game) - if you play on a PvE server and do an AoE attack and a flagged player of the opposite faction as you moves into your AoE, guess what happens? Nothing. You won't get flagged at all. You have to specifically target the flagged player with a skill/ability/spell or manually flag yourself for PvP - So if you have them actively targeted and AoE where they are then you will be flagged, but if you have a NPC mob targeted and AoE with them in range then they will not be hit (and thus you will not get flagged).

 

SWTOR is the only MMO I can name that allows PvP'ers to grief PvE'ers on a PvE server doing PvE activities by doing things like running into the person's AoE while flagged themselves. If you can name & prove any other MMO's do that, go ahead and name em & prove it.

[JPryde]

It's called tough love. I'm here to help players overcome adversity in these dailies because they don't want to get flagged so I'm providing them with the what to do and what not to do during these dailies.

If you were so helpful, you wouldn't have started your thread with "It's your fault..."... you would have said something like "Helpful reminder to avoid getting PvP flagged against your will".... with content "do not use AOE".

You are doing neither.

 

First you put the blame on the ones you claim to be wanting to help.

Then you insult them by telling them to "pay attention to your surroundings", which is not exactly a pro tip. You do not even mention avoiding AOE skills in your opening post, so would you please stop claiming to be trying to help?

Edited January 24, 2014 by JPryde

[Reno_Tarshil]

I'm sorry, but your incorrect - as has been pointed out. Most decent MMO's do not work this way, most MMO's I've ever played that have had Open World style PvP but also had PvE servers, where open world pvp is not allowed, have it set so you have to either/or flag yourself for PvP or directly target and attack the flagged person.

 

Take WoW for example (yes, I'm using *that* game) - if you play on a PvE server and do an AoE attack and a flagged player of the opposite faction as you moves into your AoE, guess what happens? Nothing. You won't get flagged at all. You have to specifically target the flagged player with a skill/ability/spell or manually flag yourself for PvP - So if you have them actively targeted and AoE where they are then you will be flagged, but if you have a NPC mob targeted and AoE with them in range then they will not be hit (and thus you will not get flagged).

 

SWTOR is the only MMO I can name that allows PvP'ers to grief PvE'ers on a PvE server doing PvE activities by doing things like running into the person's AoE while flagged themselves. If you can name & prove any other MMO's do that, go ahead and name em & prove it.

 

Sorry but as someone who plays both WoW and Swtor, You're wrong about WoW.

[Reno_Tarshil]

If you were so helpful, you wouldn't have started your thread with "It's your fault..."... you would have said something like "Helpful reminder to avoid getting PvP flagged against your will".... with content "do not use AOE".

You are doing neither.

 

First you put the blame on the ones you claim to be wanting to help.

Then you insult them by telling them to "pay attention to your surroundings", which is not exactly a pro tip. You do not even mention avoiding AOE skills in your opening post, so would you please stop claiming to be trying to help?

 

You don't know what Tough Love is. You have break someone down to their core so you can build them back up better than before. You have to be willing to say things that others won't otherwise they won't listen and they will continue to be weaker for it.

 

I'm sorry you don't approve my non barney style approach but this is just how it is.

[DataBeaver]

Are you seriously trying to apply a rape comparison to questing in a video game?

I'm sorry if my example was too extreme for you and you are unable to see the similarity past the difference in degree. Here, try another one:

 

In certain cities there's a real danger of getting mugged and robbed by walking on the streets, in some cases even during daylight. You are much safer going by car. If you decide to walk anyway, maybe because it's healthy or your car is being repaired, is it your fault if you get attacked? Should the attacker go free if caught? If it was in the power of the local police force to prevent these crimes, should they not do something about it?

 

Some excerpts of disallowed activities from the TOS:

- Harass, threaten, embarrass, spam or do anything else to another player that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc.

- Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of EA Services. Disruptive behavior includes but is not limited to conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within an EA Service. Disruptive behavior shall also include, but not be limited to, commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements.

I've emphasized the relevant part. Can you argue that forcing someone to be flagged through AoE is allowed based on this?

 

For the record, I agree that avoiding AoE is a way to avoid unintentional flagging, and the mobs are killable with single-target attacks. However, I disagree about the degree to which AoE avoidance should be taken. It also doesn't mean Bioware shouldn't put up other measures to prevent it which keeping AoE attacks usable.

Edited January 24, 2014 by DataBeaver

[Reno_Tarshil]

I'm sorry if my example was too extreme for you and you are unable to see the similarity past the difference in degree. Here, try another one:

 

In certain cities there's a real danger of getting mugged and robbed by walking on the streets, in some cases even during daylight. You are much safer going by car. If you decide to walk anyway, maybe because it's healthy or your car is being repaired, is it your fault if you get attacked? Should the attacker go free if caught? If it was in the power of the local police force to prevent these crimes, should they not do something about it?

 

Some examples of disallowed activities from the TOS:

 

I've emphasized the relevant part. Can you argue that forcing someone to be flagged through AoE is allowed based on this?

 

For the record, I agree that avoiding AoE is a way to avoid unintentional flagging, and the mobs are killable with single-target attacks. However, I disagree about the degree to which AoE avoidance should be taken. It also doesn't mean Bioware shouldn't put up other measures to prevent it which keeping AoE attacks usable.

 

This is the problem with people trying to use real life examples to compare it with a Video Game. If you get mugged in real your damn right the mugger should be arrested. But that's real life and this is just a video game. Wish people would start treating it as such.

 

If it's a bug then it will be handled by Bioware when they handle it.

 

If it's not a bug and it's intended gameplay design then it's w/e.

[Kamatsu]

Sorry but as someone who plays both WoW and Swtor, You're wrong about WoW.

LOL Your amusing you know that? Because your wrong. Blizzard fixed that years ago - it used to be that AoE's would flag you, but they patched it out so it no longer did that. As it stands in WoW is exactly as I stated - you can not get flagged by a flagged player of the opposite faction unless you target that player, or flag yourself.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10949945008?page=1#6

 

For AoE abilities such as healing, unless you are specifically targeting the flagged player you should not be flagged yourself. The same goes for damaging spells, as long as you are not specifically targeting a character that is flagged for PvP, the spell will not hit the flagged player or flag you for PvP. Most of the time it is just a matter of using a bit of caution when tabbing through possible targets.

 

That is an official statement by a Blizzard/WoW employee regarding the way AoE healing & attack abilities work regarding PvP flagging in WoW. It works exactly as I stated.

 

Edit - also to add, Rift also has a system where you can dprotect yourself from this. It has an "Auto Flag" option you can toggle. With this option disabled, you will not get flagged if an AoE hit's a flagged person of the other faction (unless you specifically target the person).

 

So there you go, 2 other western MMO's which both protect against flagging by AoE skills. Yet again, SWTOR is the only MMO I know of which has this abuse possible. And you have yet to name any other MMO's which allow it.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Kamatsu

[DataBeaver]

This is the problem with people trying to use real life examples to compare it with a Video Game. If you get mugged in real your damn right the mugger should be arrested. But that's real life and this is just a video game. Wish people would start treating it as such.

 

If it's a bug then it will be handled by Bioware when they handle it.

 

If it's not a bug and it's intended gameplay design then it's w/e.

I'm not sure what your argument here is. Are you saying that anything goes in video games, as long as the game code allows it through whatever obscure means? Players should be allowed to abuse bugs until they are fixed, even if that abuse disrupts another player's gameplay?

[JPryde]

If it's a bug then it will be handled by Bioware when they handle it.

 

If it's not a bug and it's intended gameplay design then it's w/e.

And if it's intended gameplay but is reviewed to have unintended effects then Bioware can handle it too.

[JattaGin]

Grats, R3no. You are finally on my ignore-list, too. You worked hard for it with your constant trolling everywhere, I give you that. Glad I never fed you.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Grats, R3no. You are finally on my ignore-list, too. You worked hard for it with your constant trolling everywhere, I give you that. Glad I never fed you.

 

You won't see this but that's okay. If you ignore someone you basically admit they won and you lost. So thanks, I have no problem being on someone's ignore list.

[Reno_Tarshil]

And if it's intended gameplay but is reviewed to have unintended effects then Bioware can handle it too.

 

And if this is the case it won't bother me at all.

[JPryde]

And if this is the case it won't bother me at all.

Then what was the intention of this whole thread?

 

You were not giving any advise in your posts... you were basically just creating a whine thread asking other players to stop whining

[Reno_Tarshil]

I'm not sure what your argument here is. Are you saying that anything goes in video games, as long as the game code allows it through whatever obscure means? Players should be allowed to abuse bugs until they are fixed, even if that abuse disrupts another player's gameplay?

 

My argument is this.

 

If you go into a cave knowing full well there are going to be members of the opposite faction trying to flag people but you go ahead and AOE anyways, than it's all on you.

 

If it's a bug it'll get fixed when Bioware fixes it.

 

If it's not a bug and it's intended gameplay mechanics than it's w/e.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Then what was the intention of this whole thread?

 

You were not giving any advise in your posts... you were basically just creating a whine thread asking other players to stop whining

 

You clearly don't need advise so you can't say I wasn't giving advise.

[Kamatsu]

Upon thinking... 10/10 for getting 8 pages from your trolling. Congrats.

 

BTW. Still waiting for you to name MMO's that allow PvP'ers to grief PvE'ers doing PvE activities on PvE servers.

 

I've already proven that both WoW & Rift do not allow that - and they are the 2 other most well know & largest western MMO's at this point other than SWTOR (Well, WoW for sure is.. Rift is well known.. and I suspect likely bigger than say Tera and such in the western market).

Edited January 24, 2014 by Kamatsu