dancezwithnubz Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 i'm sure we've all encountered this at least once and it's overwhelmingly a tactic used by gunships. two or more gunships working together and using this tactic are essentially invulnerable. with that 15km range, they can command a VAST area of the battlefield while being able to run away and hide the minute they actually have to fight. yes, it's easy to say "just don't chase them", which incidentally can leave you wide open to Ion railgun love-tap cheese (c'mon guys, debuff needs to scale with charge). i'm not sure what the best solution is. move the capital ships further away from nodes? turrets only protect you for 60s after spawn or until you land your first shot, whichever comes first? turrets turning on the coward for desertion? gimp gunships speed & make them less agile when not sighting in a railgun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I've said it before and I will say it again... Fleeing a fight is desertion and you get shot for fleeing any OTHER direction.. so why not there? And /agree that ion debuff needs to scale to charge... or only apply at full charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verfallen Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 i'm sure we've all encountered this at least once and it's overwhelmingly a tactic used by gunships. two or more gunships working together and using this tactic are essentially invulnerable. with that 15km range, they can command a VAST area of the battlefield while being able to run away and hide the minute they actually have to fight. yes, it's easy to say "just don't chase them", which incidentally can leave you wide open to Ion railgun love-tap cheese (c'mon guys, debuff needs to scale with charge). i'm not sure what the best solution is. move the capital ships further away from nodes? turrets only protect you for 60s after spawn or until you land your first shot, whichever comes first? turrets turning on the coward for desertion? gimp gunships speed & make them less agile when not sighting in a railgun? Trying to camp spawn? THere is no way a gunship can make it back to its capital ship if a competent scout is pursuing from the nodes. If I spawn and I have 2 scouts on my arse 2 second after before I appeared while I'm still at 40km from the nodes, heck yes I'll bring them to the turrets. What, suddenly spawn campers are the good guys? Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancezwithnubz Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Trying to camp spawn? no. i'm not talking about spawn-******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain_Turinbar Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 When I first started playing I made this mistake once. If they want to fly back that far let them. You just took them out of the game and starting from teh capital ship with no engine power is actually better than killing htem in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 When I first started playing I made this mistake once. If they want to fly back that far let them. You just took them out of the game and starting from teh capital ship with no engine power is actually better than killing htem in a way. But they likely have also pulled YOU away from guarding the satellite, making it easier for a teammate to cap it. And since he has barrel roll he'll be back in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I've seen gunships doing this, and it's intreasting that someone mentions spawncamping, because in a few games gunships have basicly been trying this tactic and it's lead to the near spawn camping of their side. remember folks, if you bring the battle back to your spawnpoint, you well.. bring the battle to your spawnpoint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reclipsed Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) I've said it before and I will say it again... Fleeing a fight is desertion and you get shot for fleeing any OTHER direction.. so why not there? And /agree that ion debuff needs to scale to charge... or only apply at full charge. haha, I would love that. "Sir, our Imperial Gunships are barrel rolling back to their Capital ships" glaring.."No respectable Imperial will retreat from battle, OPEN FIRE!" Edited January 18, 2014 by reclipsed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewski Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Actually I think what he's referring too is gunship chaining, where they line up just inside each others range all the way from the spawn point out to the B node. This way the end guy can pick off people and turrets until someone chases them, and the next gunship picks them off. If you manage to break that, they both pull back towards the safe zone, and the guy in the zone picks you off instead. It's also possible for people to pull this off with just two gunships, although it's a bit less effective than having three or more do it. It's a little cheesy, true, but it's a valid tactic that the rule-set currently allows, and it is counter-able. Personally, I've found the best way to break a chain is to attack the middle ships from their flank hopefully with a buddy, but solo is possible. The way sensor focus works you can get in there and burst him down before they know you are there, and even if they rabbit you've disrupted their chain. This is a tactic that ties up two, three or even more gunships, so if one or two breakers can disrupt the chain your team comes out ahead. Really good gunships on your side can also easily break this by coasting up to the edge away from where they are focusing and taking out the back gunships before they can find you. I stink at gunships, so I can't pull it off, but I've seen it done. Is it a bit cheesy? Yes. Can it be countered? Yes. Can we hope that some day they'll fix the spawn/ion/whatever-your-personal-peeve-is bug? Sure we can. But in the mean time, we just counter it until people move on to the next FOTM tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) haha, I would love that. "Sir, our Imperial Gunships are barrel rolling back to their Capital ships" glaring.."No respectable Imperial will retreat from battle, OPEN FIRE!" Pretty much this. Cap ship turrets should target deserters, as well as enemies. Once you left the spawn zone, you can't go back without getting shot. Edited January 18, 2014 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershadows Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 You can always pop distortion field, boost in there, kill them, then barrel roll out. I do it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Trying to camp spawn? THere is no way a gunship can make it back to its capital ship if a competent scout is pursuing from the nodes. If I spawn and I have 2 scouts on my arse 2 second after before I appeared while I'm still at 40km from the nodes, heck yes I'll bring them to the turrets. What, suddenly spawn campers are the good guys? Lol. I don't think that you are understanding what is happening. I mostly see this in the space map with a GS attacking B (from about 14.5km). When you boost to engage (from B), they spin as quickly as they can then barrel roll back toward their capitol ship. If you break off, they'll just spin around and fire (ion engine disabling BS) if you press forward, they'll have cover of the capitol ship AND you will be in their range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) I don't think that you are understanding what is happening. I mostly see this in the space map with a GS attacking B (from about 14.5km). When you boost to engage (from B), they spin as quickly as they can then barrel roll back toward their capitol ship. If you break off, they'll just spin around and fire (ion engine disabling BS) if you press forward, they'll have cover of the capitol ship AND you will be in their range. that's exactly what's going on, they love to lure you from the objective and right to their Capitol Ship or to a Swarm of their allies... the whole point is to get you from the objective... as soon as my wing and i noticed what they were doing we'd break pursuit and target the next closest... the big problem lies in gunships hovering just between their Capitol and Obj. B, doing exactly what Zharik said... that tactic pretty much makes them near untouchable one on one, and forces you to burn through all (or most of) your resources if you foolishly decide to chase, while they burn through none of theirs (except maybe Barrel Roll)... the best solution is probably to move the Capitol Ships farther away from Obj. B, as that terribly short distance is being heavily exploited, especially on the side that has nothing between their Cap. Ship and Obj. B... Edited January 18, 2014 by Elly_Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegadeimp Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 In war, there are no rules. You use whatever tactic you can to win. If people want to retreat, let them. What i find funny is the amount of people claiming impossible, or highly unlikely scenarios as their evidence. people REALLY need to understand that the maps are objective based and not dogfights. Asking to change the mechanics of an objective based warzone to benefit dogfighters is laughable. Oh and before you start trolling, yes i play a gunship, no i dont use LoLcannon, and no i dont run away from a fight. Infact, i find it much more fun to lead 3-4 scouts/fighters around the map for the entire fight, effectively taking them out of the battle and making it an easy win for my team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 ya know, you're right, they prolly shouldn't change anything... i'm not complaining about the tactics used against my team as much as i'm pointing them out, and i don't begrudge them either... my problem lies in my own team, i usually get sidled up with a bunch of No Objective Cowboys that just wanna chase the kill and thus fall for the tactics of our opponents, and never seem to learn from it and do it over, and over, and over again, instead of finding a way to counter it and working together... it's like cooperation and teamwork is nigh existent on Imperial Side of JC... it's no wonder the Empire keeps losing wars throughout history if our pilots are this disorganized... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegadeimp Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 ya know, you're right, they prolly shouldn't change anything... i'm not complaining about the tactics used against my team as much as i'm pointing them out, and i don't begrudge them either... my problem lies in my own team, i usually get sidled up with a bunch of No Objective Cowboys that just wanna chase the kill and thus fall for the tactics of our opponents, and never seem to learn from it and do it over, and over, and over again, instead of finding a way to counter it and working together... it's like cooperation and teamwork is nigh existent on Imperial Side of JC... it's no wonder the Empire keeps losing wars throughout history if our pilots are this disorganized... It's like that everywhere. Players just want to fly around without repercussion. Gunships, apart from being very easy kills, unless theres a skilled pilot at the helm, are there to remind them to check their six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I'll admit, I have used this tactic. When the other team is a premade and your team has 6 preferred players on it, you take what you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drackly Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 haha, I would love that. "Sir, our Imperial Gunships are luring the enemy back to our Capital ships" glaring.."Brilliant, OPEN FIRE!" Oops. Fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Oops. Fixed that for you. except in every match i've been in i't been the Republic using that tactic.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVindictus Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) i'm sure we've all encountered this at least once and it's overwhelmingly a tactic used by gunships. two or more gunships working together and using this tactic are essentially invulnerable. with that 15km range, they can command a VAST area of the battlefield while being able to run away and hide the minute they actually have to fight. yes, it's easy to say "just don't chase them", which incidentally can leave you wide open to Ion railgun love-tap cheese (c'mon guys, debuff needs to scale with charge). i'm not sure what the best solution is. move the capital ships further away from nodes? turrets only protect you for 60s after spawn or until you land your first shot, whichever comes first? turrets turning on the coward for desertion? gimp gunships speed & make them less agile when not sighting in a railgun? Gunships won't stand and fight because they have no realistic chance of winning a close distance fight with a ship that can literally fly circles around them and has fire and forget lock on missiles to supplement their damage. You also can't realistically get back to 15km and turn around and snipe, because they other ships outrun you. Going to a friendly satellite with a lot of friendly ships to break the bogey on your 6, or back to spawn is literally the only way gunships can deal with scouts. Also inb4 "well don't let people get close range, you can shoot them from 15000 range!" Yeah remember all that complaining about barrel roll letting gunships run away from you? I can complain back about scouts barrel rolling at me to close the distance faster than I can charge a shot. Edited January 18, 2014 by DarthVindictus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Yes a GS who is being chased by a scout/strike that is anywhere near competent is in trouble, and they should run to friendlies. I just don't like them getting automated, perfect capitol ship help that was made to prevent spawn camping (which is a good thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Man, people will complain about ANYTHING. It's intended that you not be able to camp spawn. It's intended that you can run back there, especially on a ship that 1000% cannot win in a dogfight. Tales of "gunship chains" running from a cap ship out to a node are likely apocryphal but in the event that they are true, certainly aren't even that smart of a strategy. If you kill the guy guess what? He gets a full heal. He gets his ammo back. He starts at his cap ship. If you chased him back to his cap ship, that's in many ways WORSE for him. But it's your precious ego that is damaged, because you didn't get to scoot behind his yacht and have your way with his engines. Stop being bad and play the actual game, not the one in your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 It's intended that you not be able to camp spawn. /agree It's intended that you can run back there, especially on a ship that 1000% cannot win in a dogfight. You have any proof that this was intended?? Or are you a mind reader? And if it was intended that way, why can you not get a heal/reload back there? Tales of "gunship chains" running from a cap ship out to a node are likely apocryphal but in the event that they are true, certainly aren't even that smart of a strategy. Never saw this. Totally not a winning strat, /agree If you kill the guy guess what? He gets a full heal. He gets his ammo back. He starts at his cap ship. If you chased him back to his cap ship, that's in many ways WORSE for him. But it's your precious ego that is damaged, because you didn't get to scoot behind his yacht and have your way with his engines. Stop being bad and play the actual game, not the one in your head. You missed 2 points... your team gets a point and his respawn timer is longer than zero. Sometimes removing threats (especially in rapid succession) is the best strategy. There are some very talented gunship pilots out there. And really, calling someone a "bad" with only words on the forums as your guide... is jumping the gun(ship). Can't we simply disagree on this without falling to schoolyard name-calling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEATHICIDE Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 /agree You have any proof that this was intended?? Or are you a mind reader? And if it was intended that way, why can you not get a heal/reload back there? (Before anyone wants to try and call me out on it, I will happily admit that when I am flying my personal gunship and being ganged up on, if the capital ship is my most viable option considering my present location, you are damn right I'll fly to it, it's that or I'm dinner without any assistance) The capital ships have guns for a reason. If you were not able to fly back to it, you would trigger the self destruct timer rather than be protected by turrets. If this was not in play, gunships would get tag teamed and lose every time they took a shot. Here is the fact of the matter: Gunship cannot win a dogfight, If gunship is able to hit you while you are near a node(which you should be) you can get to the gunship and down it before it can reach the capital ship. What, do you expect gunships to dogfight? Go ahead and imagine if that was the intent, no ship is intended to sit there and be defenseless at close range, so if a gunship can't run to safe zone when you foolishly chase one there after failing to destroy it during your approach, then gunships would be modified to be able to dogfight, which would make gunships the gods of the sky. Imagine a gunship with the abilities of a strikefighter plus the 2 railguns. It wouldn't need to run, it would down you every single time. Gunships are supposed to have the option to go back to the capital ship, and if you followed one there, you are not flying where you should be and are just chasing revenge and falling right into their trap wasting your time. If you have done this it means you are not helping your team, you are not scoring points, since if you actually killed the GS it would be right back at the cap ship anyways, the whole goal is to prevent it from sniping your team mates capping/holding a satellite. If you see a gunship sitting close enough to the cap ship to make it there before you can approach and blow it's piddly shields off, then the strategy is simple, stay out of that danger zone and force it to approach the satellite. A gunship sitting camping with nothing to shoot makes it pretty moot, so you either let it nullify its presence for the match if that is it's desire, or force an approach. In the mentioned scenario of many gunships making a chain to a satellite is the case, then good for them, let them have the satellite and sit there shooting at nothing while your team with the numbers in play advantage caps the other two. Lets start ************ about scout newbies popping cooldowns, taking pot shots while they are up then running back to the cap ships too if we are going to finger someone. At least boats have an excuse for requiring cover, agile dogfighters certainly do not, and are doing their team even more of a disservice should they retreat. Bottom line is people really need to stop chasing kills, stop looking for cheap revenge, and realize that even if they racked up 100 deaths, they can still be a team's top contributor and it doesn't take their requisition away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) omg DEATHICIDE, i actually agree with what you're saying here... Edited January 18, 2014 by Elly_Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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