Seriously, the balance changes in 2.6?

[MindSpore]

Bioware love the Agent class so will pull out all the stops to buff, fix give them the best abilities in the game. Of course Agents will jump on their Banthas claiming class X is OP.

 

The fact Bioware fixed 'LOLScamper' within a couple of weeks yet leaves Force Shroud still broken after 18 months, says it all.

 

Can't tell if serious

[Malastare]

Anyway, OP is winning thread since he made a cohesive argument, yet no one have said anything to counter it, other than functionally "devs know best, they have metrics!".

 

No, the OP failed to make any points. He just pointed out that changes are coming and then jumps to the conclusion that it will break the Sniper, make a whole tree "dead". He provides no numbers to back up his statement. He provides no descriptions of situations that cannot be played anymore or abilities that have no logical use. In the end, it is no different than the standard: "My favorite class is going to see a 2% drop in DPS on dummy parses". Perhaps there is a bit of "I'm going to have to use my brain for a bit until someone puts up a YouTube video telling me how to play".

 

(Andryah and the other biodrones)

 

And that's where I stop caring about what you say. You're clearly not interested in a discussion. You just want to form up "teams" and toss insults.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Malastare

[KarethRiker]

I am mostly okay with the OS change. Snipers will be more than viable in raids.

 

I do think the OP brings up a really good concern about node guarding though. With the lower CD snipers will be able to have huge uptime on preventing a node from being capped. I see this as a pretty serious problem.

[JediMasterSLC]

No, the OP failed to make any points. He just pointed out that changes are coming and then jumps to the conclusion that it will break the Sniper, make a whole tree "dead". He provides no numbers to back up his statement. He provides no descriptions of situations that cannot be played anymore or abilities that have no logical use. In the end, it is no different than the standard: "My favorite class is going to see a 2% drop in DPS on dummy parses". Perhaps there is a bit of "I'm going to have to use my brain for a bit until someone puts up a YouTube video telling me how to play".

 

And that's where I stop caring about what you say. You're clearly not interested in a discussion. You just want to form up "teams" and toss insults.

 

Yeah sure, he didn't give any numbers, but since some of his points are objectively intuitively true, I'd say his shortcoming in that regard isn't enough to dismiss him. If you have numbers to offer to the contrary of what he said, please show us. I wouldn't say add heavy fights will be that bad for snipers, but it seems true that the already not-the-best MM/SS spec is going to be hurting after this change. He's also right about rollbang- I haven't seen too many people defending that, even though a dev laughably claimed that it's working as intended.

 

Idk why people expect a dissertation from an OP- yeah sure, he was fairly brief, but it was enough to get a discussion going. Instead he gets flamed by BIODRONES.

[Ubwike]

Well, stick your head above the walls of the trenches and you'll get shot at - simple as that, it is an occupational hazard!

 

As for metrics - I don't have exhaustive ones, but there are publicly available ones over on torparse. I suggest people check it out for details. There is now an scoundrel parse at 4.1k dps. I must apologise, the post I made was one or two versions back from the final one, in which the previous link was featured. This is the highest dps on a single target which I would not class as exploit based. Imagine that popping out of stealth and stun locking you... That initial burst will kill you, and you won't even get out of stunlock before it has!

 

Another feature was this parse for engineering roll spec, parsing at 4.4k. Now that damage from scatter bombs is AoE, requires no energy and no proc, while making up about 25% of the overall damage.

 

Finally, I've seen no parse from full SS/MM hitting the front page of slinger/sniper dps parses on an ops dummy. Not exhaustive, but probably worth taking note of, because that is the tree that will be hurt the most by this nerf.

 

I try to keep abreast of the changes, and while I'm unable to provide parses from fights on the PTS showing the difference in dealing with adds, I have only my experience to go on...

 

As to add heavy fights, do be honest I'm concerned about things like Draxus and Corruptor Zero on HM. Orbital forms a huge part in pretty much every successful run I've seen, as those adds *really* hurt. Again, not quantitative, anecdotal. I also think to downing the nerfed version of dreadguard on NiM, where we pre-place orbital before the pull to help beat the enrage.

 

Anyway, for those who need numbers, now you have some. Put up a cogent argument to rubbish my inferences if you can. If you can't, perhaps you should try rethinking your position.

[jedip_enguin]

Much as I don't think the OP did himself any favours with his post style, I do agree the XS/OS flyby nerf is being poorly implemented.

 

If they don't want us using Flyby for single targets an energy cost increase would have sorted this issue without ruining the ability as a situational AoE as well.

[paowee]

So WHAT is being thought here? Seriously - Devs, have you guys have some head trauma recently? There are a lot of things you NEED to deal with. Mostly, I think you need to IMPROVE classes, not wreck things that work. There are a couple of exceptions, ie exploits, but they can be sorted without resorting to breaking a tree/class.

 

 

Lets start with the orbital strike nerf - you don't like that being a single target ability. Fine, that is all well and good, but consider what you are breaking before you bring out your nerf hammer, yes, this is a hammer. The following are just a minor selection of MY grievances.

 

First of all - MM dies. There is no point in using it over Lethality, Hybrid or full Engineering. On demand burst is gone, and with it the smooth rotation.

 

Secondly - Add heavy fights are going to be awful for snipers.

 

Third - PvP, massive buff for node guards, like snipers weren't able enough when it came to situations like voidstar already.

 

Fourth - it was one of my snipers dcd's in arenas, the sniper is shark bait now.

 

So, yeah, don't break the class 'because you don't like something'. If you want to do something, I'd start by looking at ToR parse - see all those roll on the spot engineer spec snipers? AoE on a single target producing the highest dps in the game? Yeah? Might want to think about having a look into that...

 

 

Secondly Operative/Scoundrel middle tree buff - Again, where is the thinking in this? Is there any thinking? Check the metrics - It was unusual, but one played to absolute potential would pull higher dps than most anything else, but a roll spec engineer. So it wasn't an issue of the class being poor, but the player pool being poor. Stack that with their excellent burst... and stealth... and numerous CC's.

 

 

PLEASE, apply your brains BEFORE you start breaking things. I'd be embarrassed to say my solutions were those as published in the patch notes.

 

 

Anyway, off to learn how to roll on the spot - all snipers should go for the insitu roll, highest DPS spec there is. Even if it does seem like a MASSIVE EXPLOIT. It isn't being fixed

 

Exaggeration for MM. Snipers aren't going to "die". They should still be best spec for boss fights with short phases and multiple target resets that require burst DPS. Pefrect example is Nightmare Styrak. Even Hard Mode Styrak. In current content, imo, im thinking even after the 2.6 nerfs, it's still going to be good for fights like Draxxus or even Calphayus. This is between MM and Full Lethality though, assuming Hybrid spec is gone when 2.6 hits live

[branmakmuffin]

Apparently OP plays a Sniper. Clearly he is in the camp of "nerf = any change made to a character class I like to play."

[iipatchii]

Actually the OP's main is a jug tank so he isn't just flaming about his main.

[Ubwike]

I must admit this made me smile.

 

Apparently OP plays a Sniper. Clearly he is in the camp of "nerf = any change made to a character class I like to play."

 

First of all, in which world is a 62% damage reduction *not* a nerf? I'm struggling here, because you appear unable to do basic maths. The hint is the word reduction. That means OS/XS will be doing roughly a third of its original damage, and given the part it plays in killing adds in OPs (go have a good look at the sniper parses for add heavy fights on ToR Parse) is going to make things really difficult.

 

Secondly, don't worry about the point made, just jump to the personal slurs. Quite endearing, though it does make you seem rather silly. I would ask you to please do work on the point made, not some imagined slight from a perspective leading to 'yz bthrt'. Anyway, the cat is out of the bag, I'm not a snipe/slinger, just concerned about what is being done to them. I'd been enjoying the slurs directed at me, but as you may have realised, they don't really fit.

 

So given this, I feel the same style of argument used by our dear branmakmuffin has been applied by the Dev's. We don't like this - therefore rather than make sure there is viable non exploit based AoE for the sniper to deal with add heavy fights, they are castrating the AoE, and significantly reducing the burst potential.

 

We're also missing out on my other Agent concern - the exceptional DPS that concealment/scrapper dps will be doing, while they'll have the ability to heal in phase changes, cleanse and provide stealth res's.