Brewski Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) The problem with these discussions is that they quickly degenerate to people taking extreme views on both sides, with neither side being willing to take an objective look at the situation. The true problem here is that we need better matchmaking. Players new to the game with less than a dozen matches under their belt should not be clumped into groups of 12 and paired against groups of 12 with mastered ships and 200+ matches played. In no world does that make sense. If necessary due to faction queue imbalance, we should be seeing more same faction matches just to keep the player base balanced. Sadly that's not how it seems to go. Hopefully it gets better over time, and we see more teams with both sides near the same experience level, or at the very least, with a mix of new and old players on both sides. The best matches are those where less than a hundred points separate the winner from the loser, and hopefully we can agree we'd all like to get there. That said, I agree It is not good to simply let someone win, or purposely hold back to a point where you are no longer having fun. Players learn nothing from easy wins. It's also not good to purposely grind the other team into the ground just to prove your epeen is larger. It serves no purpose other than to take away from the game and give you a momentary sense of superiority. Spawn camping, for example, is childish at best, and there is no excuse for it. If your side is completely dominant in a match, suicide and switch to an unupgraded ship. Set yourself a challenge flying a gunship but only using blasters, or take a scout and stick to just missiles. Do something to keep it challenging for you, not take away from your win, and still give the other side a chance to score a few points. In one match a couple nights ago I spent the last half dragging a couple of new players around the map, letting them close in, and then evading away. I didn't shoot back (despite several opportunities) and instead made it a game to see if I could last the remaining part of the match without dying. It was kind of fun seeing them continuously trying to kill me, and watching the two of them learn how to keep me in their sights. They took me out about 5 second before the match ended after figuring out how to deal with retros. We still won 1000 to 200, even though I didn't pad my kill count anymore, and I got a few less reqs than I could have. The point is, I had fun, and I like to think the two pilots who finally managed to hunt me down had a bit of fun too. That really should be the point. Edited January 17, 2014 by Brewski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okiobe Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 It is sad how lopsided the matches have been lately. I think the matchmaking system prioritizes fast queues over balanced matches. As a 'veteran' player I don't have fun in those matches. I find myself just killing a few people to get the medals and then camping at a node the rest of the match. Killing the other team as they spawn is boring. It seems as if there is a bad trend of good players on the losing faction quitting GSF or switching sides. I think they should put new players against each other and players with upgraded ships against each other even if this mean longer queue times for the latter group. 'Veteran' players shouldn't have to hold back. Bioware needs to fix the matchmaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEATHICIDE Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 It seems as if there is a bad trend of good players on the losing faction quitting GSF or switching sides. There are a few who play both sides, but I have heard from several players now that just rolled a Pub only to play GSF because they have access at level one and got tired of being facerolled. Their words, not mine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainamoinen Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Did you read the 2 sentences before what you quoted? . Yes, I did, but seems you didn't read your own text. Let me try again. I cut it down to two sentences before, but that was apparently too much to retain, let's see if you can succesfully focus on one sentence. Of your own. The only people who would complain are your enemies. My response: Wrong, you're screwing the person who gets backfilled into your spot and has no time to even earn any comms in a losing game. Get it now? The guy who replaces you after your little ragequit tantrum gets dumped into the match your incompetence lost, with no chance of a win or even earning requisition. Perhaps I should use hand signals. And as I added originally, you're also screwing anyone in your current team who is trying to achieve anything, including some dignity in defeat. So you should stay to the end to help your comrades, not screw backfillers, maybe learn something from the guys beating you, and earn requisitions. If it's one-sded it'll be over quick in any case. And if you're telling noobs to quit when losing matches, if they follow your advice then they'll never learn how to play better and not earn the requisition they would have got to upgrade their ships. Good job sabotaging your own side. Edited January 17, 2014 by Wainamoinen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattycutts Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 asking online gamers to be respectful and go easy on the n00bs, you're new to this online gaming lark aren't you? thats the sort of reaction that leads to a drastic downfall in numbers within pvp environments. i for one being one of the more experienced space pvpers on my server have been asking in every game for any new commers, and i have some typed quick glance notes i copy and paste in opps channel to help new commers. if im in a game where we winning easily ill keep swapping my attack patterns so im not hammering the same guys over and over. No matter what any one says if your a fan of space pvp in this game and go round stomping some new commers time after time they will quit. that better for your server? answer will be in some time when ya crying out too long pop times or we want server merges. Not that hard to type couple of bits in the time we got in waiting area to give guidance, and remember this is to help "your team" which means u may win if signed as a solo player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainamoinen Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The true problem here is that we need better matchmaking. Players new to the game with less than a dozen matches under their belt should not be clumped into groups of 12 and paired against groups of 12 with mastered ships and 200+ matches played. In no world does that make sense. If necessary due to faction queue imbalance, we should be seeing more same faction matches just to keep the player base balanced. 100% agree with that. I prefer faction against faction for fun, but I'd take an even same faction match against a Rep v Imp roflstomp every time. The crucial difference between newbies and vets though is experience. Gear helps, but it's not near as much. And the way to improve is ultimately by practice, by playing. You get beat but you improve. And if you want people to keep playing - which if you like GSF you will - then try to help them out. If you're good, switch to the losing side to even things up a little, temporarily. A couple of nights leading the desperate Imp defence against the Republic hordes (or vice versa) is no real cost if it gets a few more people over the hump to keep playing. I don't know the proportions of sub / preferred / F2P and the numbers we're likely to get in each wave. I suspect F2P might be bigger than prefs, but no figures to back that up. Bottom line is that Galactic Starfighter rewards skill, and to get the skill takes a bit of practice - this is good, but means there is an issue with pitching in new people with veterans. I'm not sure what to do for a 100% solution, if there is one, but do know that anything that can encourage more of them to persist rather than quit is going to be good in the long term (and good for them, as they have more fun) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhams Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Yes, I did, but seems you didn't read your own text. Let me try again. I cut it down to two sentences before, but that was apparently too much to retain, let's see if you can succesfully focus on one sentence. Of your own. My response: Get it now? The guy who replaces you after your little ragequit tantrum gets dumped into the match your incompetence lost, with no chance of a win or even earning requisition. Perhaps I should use hand signals. And as I added originally, you're also screwing anyone in your current team who is trying to achieve anything, including some dignity in defeat. So you should stay to the end to help your comrades, not screw backfillers, maybe learn something from the guys beating you, and earn requisitions. If it's one-sded it'll be over quick in any case. And if you're telling noobs to quit when losing matches, if they follow your advice then they'll never learn how to play better and not earn the requisition they would have got to upgrade their ships. Good job sabotaging your own side. Well, guess the best thing to tell newbies who are being farmed is Wainamoinen from Red Eclipse says stay in the game and be farmed, getting 10 deaths is needed to 'learn' ......yeah..... Your in a server that has roughly 4-5 times the population of Progenitor, you get lots more new players who don't mind dying, whereas in my server, that's it, player gets frustrated with starfighter and don't come back. Any more new players? Nope cause we do not have a high population to begin with. Tell me, what can you learn when you just have a strike fighter and scout VS fully upgraded Gunships and other enemy ships that are spawn camping you? How do you encourage them to stay when they spawn, boost out, boom, dead. Theres nothing to keep them unless you get a newbie vs newbie team where the skill levels are more balanced and then they will have a chance to learn slowly. Or, since your so helpful, roll a Imp char on Progenitor and help teach the new players how to fly, that might be better? Edited January 17, 2014 by Warhams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainamoinen Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) ... Wainamoinen from Red Eclipse says ... While all reasonable people agree that the world would be a better place if everyone simply did exactly as I say; no. As I said, repeatedly now but will one further time in the vain hope it might register: they should keep playing because that way they don't screw teammates, they have a chance to learn something (you can learn even when you lose), and they can earn reqs, They'll get none of that by following your example and quitting. The ultimate way to more fun playing starfighter for newbies is by improving their performance. Your advice tells them it's okay to be victims, and don't bother trying, in fact stop playing. You complain that there aren't enough playing starfighter on your server - and you advise newbies to quit playing. Cognitive dissonance? Edited January 18, 2014 by Wainamoinen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhams Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The ultimate way to more fun playing starfighter for newbies is by improving their performance. Your advice tells them it's okay to be victims, and don't bother trying, in fact stop playing. You complain that there aren't enough playing starfighter on your server - and you advise newbies to quit playing. Cognitive dissonance? The reason there isn't any new players is because all the new players get farmed for a few games, get frustrated and not play ever gain. So tell me, how does a group of 8-12 newbies, spawn camped at the starting ship 'improve their performance' ? I advise them to quit as in such a situation there is nothing they can Do nor nothing they will Gain. You don't get a lot of requisition for getting a high death count you know. However if you say its best for new players to just stay in a game, get farmed and get 0 kills/assists 7+ deaths and less than 10k damage, well I can't say anything. Lets agree to disagree as obviously farming newbies on your server works and makes them stay for more games to be farmed, where as in my server, they just quit and never come back. I'd rather save them the frustration and hope they play another game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The reason there isn't any new players is because all the new players get farmed for a few games, get frustrated and not play ever gain. So tell me, how does a group of 8-12 newbies, spawn camped at the starting ship 'improve their performance' ? I advise them to quit as in such a situation there is nothing they can Do nor nothing they will Gain. They can stay back at the spawn and wait for a wingman before boosting fearlessly into the enemy's lasers. Not too hard to do, but apparently no one ever thinks to do it. They also gain 300 guaranteed requisition, even if they go afk and leave the window open. Would you like to try again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhams Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 They can stay back at the spawn and wait for a wingman before boosting fearlessly into the enemy's lasers. Not too hard to do, but apparently no one ever thinks to do it. They also gain 300 guaranteed requisition, even if they go afk and leave the window open. Would you like to try again? Well, thanks for the info as I admit I never knew that's its a 300 guaranteed requisition. Guess I'll just advise them to just afk on the spawn area now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain_Turinbar Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 There have been plenty of new players on the Harbinger every night this week and now some of them are already to 3 and 4 ships. I don't think this is as much an issue as people think. In one match I must have killed the same noob 5x as he fearlessly charged into the sat I was holding eating missiles and heavy lasers flying a straight line. Yet he stayed in and I saw him in two more games last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slivovidze Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Situation is indeed unpleasant on The Progenitor. Don't know why, but Imps got hit by the newbie dumbness way harder than Reps. I'm a Rep diehard, hate Empire wholeheartedly so no chance I'm making Imp character to play GSF (besides, Imp ships look fugly to me). But hell, if we were winning a lot before prefs got in, we have a 99% win chance now. I usually just do a daily and get out. Even with my alt with zero upgrades these guys are fodder. Experience is worth a lot. I use the time in these games to experiment with my mastered Nova, like, how long can I boost consecutively, how fast can I get from A to C and back, how fast can I fly with speed upgrades instead of turning rate ones... I'm useless to my team and I have way less fun than when I played against the same, kinda good, guys whole evening. These days, Imps are either a newb (pass, good luck dude), a FotM Sting with bursts and bypass (I try to outrun these without fighting back, just to see if I can) or a gunship (I kill these because I hate them). We have our Aces channel, but there is no way of "farming imp newbs" you are talking about, most of the guys feel the same as me. We sure hate imps and wish them a painful death, but this is boring. I hope Imps also have their GSF channel and that their few good players at least try to educate the fodder guys. Hopefully things will soon become at least the same as they were before prefs... Edited January 18, 2014 by Slivovidze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRampage Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Any new players on ToFN - hit me on Raphael if you want to group up, chances are you will get into good team. just make sure you copy name from sig, I have weird letter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhams Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Believe me I've tried but most of the new guys just get fed up of dying match after match and don't play anymore. They rather go back to Land PVP or Ops. I've whisper/helped many new players but in the end for them, its like queue, oh its that premade/s again, they all exit the match. Progenitor has only so many Imp newbies willing to 'tough' it out, heh. Edited January 18, 2014 by Warhams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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