Evasion shouldn't work if you aren't moving.

[Sharee]

The problem is there should not be a skill that basicly makes you miss in this kind of game. its twitch meaning you can get out of the line of fire and avoid damage, if you better you can dodge pull a counter move and shoot them down. there is no need for a dodge bullets button. there should be no form of RNG in a twitch game even if it is in a MMO.

 

The ship design is:

 

- scouts are easy to kill but hard to hit

- strikes are easy to hit but hard to kill

 

Evasion is a mechanic that makes the above possible. If there was no evasion, then scouts would be just as easy to hit as strikes. The speed difference between strikes and scouts alone is not significant enough to allow scouts avoiding enemy fire significantly better than a strike.

 

Sure, they could do away with evasion and instead buff the difference in speed between strikes and scouts so that scouts are just as hard to hit as they currently are with evasion, however do you really want scouts to be so fast they can cross the distance between A and C satellite in 2.5 seconds? I don't.

[NalRethak]

Speed has nothing to do with easyness to hit or not. The mass of the fighter does.

 

Fact is neither evasion as anything to do IG, nor aiming.

Those two things are complete BS.

 

I don't give a crap if a scout is easy to hit without evasion. It'll force people to actually learn how to fly and not just stop, go full burst and OS the opponent. I still don't get it why they chose to went this way, with a crappy system that doesn't do the trick.

 

To prevent lag? I can live with it, I've been doing it for 13 years now that I'm playing over the internet. That's boring here and there, but that's not much of a problem usually. I've played enough Weeks of War on XWA back in 2k1 or 2k2, don't remember exactly, but that was pretty nice then.

 

Now they come here with some stuff that just doesn't do the trick. They have stuff they should remove as the weapon arc also... Remove the special moves, and allow us to do them by ourselves. Right now, there's not so many moves to escape a missile besides hit thrusters and run outta range asap if your evasion maneuvers is under CD.

 

It's not the game that is supposed to make your fighter easy or hard to hit. It's the pilot in it that is supposed to do that.

 

Don't know who was the Lead Designer on this, but it looks like he never played any space combat before.

[DroidDreamer]

Evasion while standing still is a real joke. The other night on my blackbolt, I hid under the node and targeted an oncoming attacker. As soon as he came into LOS, I popped Distortion Field and then just wasted him as he opened up with everything on me but did nothing. It was laughable and cheap.

 

I LOVE this game. I've had the best dogfights of my whole life in GSF. But the fact that stopping in the middle of a dogfight has so many advantages materially detracts from the action and fun.

 

Yes, there are counters. No, they are not fun. Stopping on mid flight (except for gunships) should mean near instant death rather than making your opponent try to counter your pro move of slamming on the breaks until you stop. Bonuses to attacking idle ships, removing evasion from idle ships, requiring movement to activate Distortion Field and further reducing turn radius while stopped are all good options.

[Sharee]

Evasion while standing still is a real joke. The other night on my blackbolt, I hid under the node and targeted an oncoming attacker. As soon as he came into LOS, I popped Distortion Field and then just wasted him as he opened up with everything on me but did nothing. It was laughable and cheap.

 

If i am starting a run against a scout pilot sitting still under a sat, i *expect* him to pop distortion, *make* him pop distortion, pull up, tap boost, turn around, make another run, and waste him while his distortion is on CD.

 

If some pilot just flies straight holding down the fire button, into the scout's guns while that scout is unhittable, it's his own fault. Should we start nerfing abilities because newbie pilots make newbie mistakes? Don't think so.

[Brilo]

Yeah! People that want to nerf Scouts are stupid. Nevermind the dozens of legit arguments that Sharee has never addressed, you're all stupid.

 

[DarkeyedSeer]

The ship design is:

 

- scouts are easy to kill but hard to hit

- strikes are easy to hit but hard to kill

 

Evasion is a mechanic that makes the above possible. If there was no evasion, then scouts would be just as easy to hit as strikes. The speed difference between strikes and scouts alone is not significant enough to allow scouts avoiding enemy fire significantly better than a strike.

 

Sure, they could do away with evasion and instead buff the difference in speed between strikes and scouts so that scouts are just as hard to hit as they currently are with evasion, however do you really want scouts to be so fast they can cross the distance between A and C satellite in 2.5 seconds? I don't.

 

i use the scount class i love the nova dive and the flash fire hell i kick *** with them they are my fav ship to use. and do you want to know something? You cant touch me you cant get behind me you cant out pilot me. i am on you tail gutting you with blaster fire. its not a stupid skill button i push its me knowing how to fly and how to pull tighter turns and predict were you ship will be. i dont need distortion field hell i really dont like it i prefer my quick recharge over so that i can close the gap with gunships and can cut them apart for not noticing the scout sneaking up on them. of course you want the scouts to be slower. why have any skill when you can just have a button for it right .why how to learn to fly and out pilot other people when you can just push a button to do it.

also we are not asking for a nerf of scout were asking of the removal of RNG from a twitch game. this is coming from a scout pilot.

Edited January 10, 2014 by DarkeyedSeer

[Sharee]

why have any skill when you can just have a button for it right .why how to learn to fly and out pilot other people when you can just push a button to do it.

 

Here's a screenshot for you: http://i.imgur.com/ApEw6yQ.jpg

 

What shield do you see me using there? Right. So please take your insults and stick them where the sun doesn't shine. Thank you.

[DroidDreamer]

If i am starting a run against a scout pilot sitting still under a sat, i *expect* him to pop distortion, *make* him pop distortion, pull up, tap boost, turn around, make another run, and waste him while his distortion is on CD.

 

If some pilot just flies straight holding down the fire button, into the scout's guns while that scout is unhittable, it's his own fault. Should we start nerfing abilities because newbie pilots make newbie mistakes? Don't think so.

 

If someone gets on your six, then you react. Stopping in mid air should NOT require a counter. It's just not fun. Let's not conflate "this is how you counter it" with "this is how it should be." Parked flying is not dogfighting and it's no fun. I see it in every match I play and it's not cool except for gunships because sniping is their playstyle.

[archifikoss]

Here's a screenshot for you: http://i.imgur.com/ApEw6yQ.jpg

 

What shield do you see me using there? Right. So please take your insults and stick them where the sun doesn't shine. Thank you.

 

For what it's worth, I've played against Sharee in a pub vs pub match and he/she is indeed a very good pilot, IIRC he/she was topping the scoreboard in that match too.

[Sharee]

If someone gets on your six, then you react. Stopping in mid air should NOT require a counter. It's just not fun.

 

You realize that fun is subjective, right? It obviously is fun for the guy who does it.

 

But let me get something straight. I am not here to discuss whether stopping should be in the game or not. You actually won't see me stopped in-game unless i just capped a sat, there's no-one on radar and i want to use chat without having to continually steer in a circle. And i usually use directional shield, not distortion(see screenshot above).

 

I am just saying: arguing that game mechanics should be altered because of flavor text attached to abilities is silly. Evasion mechanics should not be prevented from working while stopped just because evading in real world requires movement. The way it works should not be altered just because of how it is called.

(Otherwise some dev with a sense of humor might just rename it from 'evasion' to 'phase shift' with exact same functionality and call it a day.)

 

Now, if you want to argue the ability is unbalanced compared to other abilities, feel free to complain about it. Just not with the silly reasoning above.

[Sharee]

For what it's worth, I've played against Sharee in a pub vs pub match and he/she is indeed a very good pilot, IIRC he/she was topping the scoreboard in that match too.

 

The 84K damage is actually my record, i usually don't do half as well Especially now when the overall piloting skill of opposition became much better.

[DroidDreamer]

You realize that fun is subjective, right? It obviously is fun for the guy who does it.

 

But let me get something straight. I am not here to discuss whether stopping should be in the game or not. You actually won't see me stopped in-game unless i just capped a sat, there's no-one on radar and i want to use chat without having to continually steer in a circle. And i usually use directional shield, not distortion(see screenshot above).

 

I am just saying: arguing that game mechanics should be altered because of flavor text attached to abilities is silly. Evasion mechanics should not be prevented from working while stopped just because evading in real world requires movement. The way it works should not be altered just because of how it is called.

(Otherwise some dev with a sense of humor might just rename it from 'evasion' to 'phase shift' with exact same functionality and call it a day.)

 

Now, if you want to argue the ability is unbalanced compared to other abilities, feel free to complain about it. Just not with the silly reasoning above.

 

Yes, saying it's no fun is my opinion. Of course that's subjective. That said, I doubt "parked dogfighting" is what the devs intended for this bad@ss, otherwise lots of fun game. It's certainly not Star Wars. Look at the movies. Is that how space combat works in the movies? My constructive feedback, based on my opinion and observations, is that hitting X to kill the throttle gets used A LOT in GSF and it needs some manner of greater penalty so it doesn't obviate things like turning thrusters and dogfighting in general.

 

As for your point that flavor text should not dictate mechanics, that's fine. My point isn't "it doesn't matter what the tool tip descriptive text says." My point is "it should not work this way regardless of the tooltip says." My quibble with parked dogfighting is not limited to evasion since turning speed while parked is too fast as is, especially when you factor momentum after you hit X. I've stated my constructively proposed solutions earlier in the thread and in my own thread about parked dogfighting.

 

And I, like you, only voluntarily use stopping to cap a node. I am forced to use it when others use it so I can keep them in my sights in the middle of a dogfight. That's no fun.

[archifikoss]

The 84K damage is actually my record, i usually don't do half as well Especially now when the overall piloting skill of opposition became much better.

 

It did get pretty one-sided pub side... However I do hope that the imps balance out a bit now as I do want to play on my imp pilot as well I switched to my pub not because they won more, but because I found that the better level of my fellow pilots there actually enhanced my own performance and led me to playing better - I just felt more useful as a whole despite being in the company of much more skilled pilots than myself.

 

Also... Pub ships are way better looking

[DroidDreamer]

The 84K damage is actually my record, i usually don't do half as well Especially now when the overall piloting skill of opposition became much better.

 

Did you win that match? Just curious.

[Sharee]

Did you win that match? Just curious.

 

You can see it in the screenshot... yes it was a win.

[DroidDreamer]

You can see it in the screenshot... yes it was a win.

 

Cool beans. I see a lot of e-peen stroking for damage counts on losing matches with lack of objective-based play. I think the scoreboard should be topped by medals instead of damage.

[archifikoss]

Cool beans. I see a lot of e-peen stroking for damage counts on losing matches with lack of objective-based play. I think the scoreboard should be topped by medals instead of damage.

 

I think that an average of medals, objective points and damage or kills/assists could be more indicative of general performance.

[DroidDreamer]

I think that an average of medals, objective points and damage or kills/assists could be more indicative of general performance.

 

Almost anything would be better than damage numbers alone, though I am not discounting the fact that high damage scores help win matches. It's just that the focus on that above capturing and holding nodes costs me a few wins a night.

[archifikoss]

Almost anything would be better than damage numbers alone, though I am not discounting the fact that high damage scores help win matches. It's just that the focus on that above capturing and holding nodes costs me a few wins a night.

 

Yeah I agree fully... It is a mix of everything that leads to a good personal performance as well as a win for the team... And TBH objectives alone are not indicative of good play any more than damage numbers. I could simply chill out at a satellite that gets attacked like once in the entire game and still rack up objective points like nobody's business. It happens to me sometimes

[DroidDreamer]

Yeah I agree fully... It is a mix of everything that leads to a good personal performance as well as a win for the team... And TBH objectives alone are not indicative of good play any more than damage numbers. I could simply chill out at a satellite that gets attacked like once in the entire game and still rack up objective points like nobody's business. It happens to me sometimes

 

Keeping one guy on the node that's not in contention while the rest of the team fights at the node that is in contention is good objective-based play. I don't understand why people think leaving a node completely undefended is a good idea when you get points faster for holding two nodes in Domination. That's how you win. When I hold a node, I'm not chilling out. I usually call incs for other nodes, call inc if I have any, fight off and kill any attackers or hold out for support and prevent the cap in the mean time.

 

In close matches decided by 20 to 30 points out of 1,000, losing a node a couple of times by leaving it undefended or wandering off to try to cap the third node instead of holding the two nodes you have, is how you lose the game.

[archifikoss]

Keeping one guy on the node that's not in contention while the rest of the team fights at the node that is in contention is good objective-based play. I don't understand why people think leaving a node completely undefended is a good idea when you get points faster for holding two nodes in Domination. That's how you win. When I hold a node, I'm not chilling out. I usually call incs for other nodes, call inc if I have any, fight off and kill any attackers or hold out for support and prevent the cap in the mean time.

 

In close matches decided by 20 to 30 points out of 1,000, losing a node a couple of times by leaving it undefended or wandering off to try to cap the third node instead of holding the two nodes you have, is how you lose the game.

 

I do that too and most of the times I have a good amount of "work"... But sometimes it's just so quiet that I feel I could be doing more for my team. I play these games to win (or at worse lose with dignity), and whilst I do care about my own performance my team's victory comes first, even if it means sacrificing potential kills or even the excitement of feverish battles

[Sharee]

Keeping one guy on the node that's not in contention while the rest of the team fights at the node that is in contention is good objective-based play. I don't understand why people think leaving a node completely undefended is a good idea when you get points faster for holding two nodes in Domination.

 

The node has three turrets. When i cap, say, C in the open map, and no-one comes before C has all 3 turrets, I leave C and help attacking B. The trick is always keeping an eye on the C status indicator top-screen. If i see it blinking and losing turrets, i can be back at it in a couple of seconds (my flashfire is equipped with barrel roll and booster recharge module)

[DroidDreamer]

I do that too and most of the times I have a good amount of "work"... But sometimes it's just so quiet that I feel I could be doing more for my team. I play these games to win (or at worse lose with dignity), and whilst I do care about my own performance my team's victory comes first, even if it means sacrificing potential kills or even the excitement of feverish battles

 

Good man! Yeah, I play to win too. No one likes holding the node but that's how you win. I use my mini-map to call out incs on OTHER nodes and direct the team to hotspots, especially if I am on voice with a guildy and they are letting me know what's up.

 

The node has three turrets. When i cap, say, C in the open map, and no-one comes before C has all 3 turrets, I leave C and help attacking B. The trick is always keeping an eye on the C status indicator top-screen. If i see it blinking and losing turrets, i can be back at it in a couple of seconds (my flashfire is equipped with barrel roll and booster recharge module)

 

That's legit, though on my Sting, Quads + Blaster Overcharge and power to blasters helps me clear three turrets on an undefended node pretty quickly. Then I'll make good use of 'X' and hide under the node while I cap. It might be tough to get to the node in time. As you say, the trick is to use the status indicator. I find the flashing node indicator to be a bit weird. I'm not sure when/why it flashes. It's not just when the node is being capped.

[DarkeyedSeer]

Here's a screenshot for you: http://i.imgur.com/ApEw6yQ.jpg

 

What shield do you see me using there? Right. So please take your insults and stick them where the sun doesn't shine. Thank you.

 

it wasnt about you, your the person making about you its about everyone that uses a broken idea. yes i see you load out but your defending having RNG in a twitch game. i was not attacking you i was attacking anyone that thinks the idea of RNG in a twitch game is a good idea.

[Sharee]

but your defending having RNG in a twitch game.

 

Is there a set of laws somewhere that divide games into categories and strictly forbid any game to use any mechanic from a category that is not it's own?

 

Such as, "This game is in the 'TWITCH' category and thus it absolutely must not have any RNG elements"?

 

I am not aware of any such laws. As far as i am concerned, every game stands on it's own. Yes, there are twitch games that do not have any RNG in them. So? Good for them. This game is different.

 

Arguing 'this game must not have RNG because it is a twitch game and this OTHER twitch game does not have RNG either!' is nonsense. IMHO, of course.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Sharee