Selenial Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Selenial is correct that Marek was on the back foot for most of the fight, and his only offensive attacks were mainly force-based and focused on the Sarlaac in a desperate attempt to off balance her. Which is Odd, if you think about it. Marek was never trained in Soresu, (he was designed to be a purely offensive machine,) he learned what he did from Obi-Wans training module on Proxy. And yet he managed to use it to hold off Ti's relentless assault long enough to tire her out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) He was trained in Soresu by Lord Vader.... just like the three other lightsaber forms he's taught. Oh and Marek was well beyond Ventress in Force prowess, one only needs to look through the entire novel to see that Marek pulls off far more impressive feats with the Force than Ventress does. I don't see how you got that Marek on Felucia = Prime Ventress, that's a wild guess if I ever saw one. Edited January 22, 2014 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 He was trained in Soresu by Lord Vader.... just like the three other lightsaber forms he's taught. Oh and Marek was well beyond Ventress in Force prowess, one only needs to look through the entire novel to see that Marek pulls off far more impressive feats with the Force than Ventress does. I don't see how you got that Marek on Felucia = Prime Ventress, that's a wild guess if I ever saw one. Soresu was self taught, mainly from Kenobis combat module. Reason being, Vader knew that if Galen wasn't taught Soresu he wouldn't stand a chance against his master. Really? Because all Marek has shown up to that point is the odd Lightning and Force pushs if I remember correctly. Though if you have an example, point it out to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Soresu was self taught, mainly from Kenobis combat module. Reason being, Vader knew that if Galen wasn't taught Soresu he wouldn't stand a chance against his master. Really? Because all Marek has shown up to that point is the odd Lightning and Force pushs if I remember correctly. Though if you have an example, point it out to me. "Lord Vader trained his acolyte in four of the Lightsaber Forms, but Starkiller's focus remained the Sith Form of Juyo." The TFU CG disagrees with your assessment. His gouts of Sith Lightning alone put him above Ventress, it's a Force Power she was never able to grasp and one that he excelled at: "Many a Jedi were unprepared for Starkiller's cones of Lightning, many were over-whelmed by his storm-like onslaughts and it was the sole ability his Sith Master was wary of." But to go further into his abilities: Dark Rage, Force Wave, Tutaminis & varying degrees of ever more impressive displays of Telekinesis are all listed as abilities that came naturally to him from the early years of his training. Marek might not show-case these abilities as much as he does in the game but he does have them and he does use them, his ever expanding feats of Telekinesis, pushing himself to the brink of his abilities are stated as the reasons he doesn't just drop dead after guiding down that Star Destroyer. Now if we do take in other versions of the fight, Shaak Ti not only uses Tutaminis to block Marek's own Force attacks, but she even uses balls of Kinetite in an attempt to, effectively, block him the **** up. Edited January 22, 2014 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The duel between Ventress and Anakin on Kamino is exactly what I was reffering to. That was before she trained to counteract that, that exact move, overpowering through Saber Lock, is the only way she's been defeated by Jedi that I can recall. And towards the end of her fighting career she grew in strenght Physically, and got rid of that. Basically, what happened to her in that duel doesn't happen any more. Marek was not in his prime during that duel, I'd say Marek then, was about the same Power as Ventress. I say this because Marek grew with power with each mission, all the way to the death star, and even if he only went up in power 5%, that's still a massive difference in Force Energy. I know it's hard to understand what I'm trying to say here, but summed up it's basically that if Marek truly got more powerful as he said with each mission, He can't have been far off ventress near the start of his career. Also, I highly doubt Marek used Juyo during that duel. Unfortunately, you havn't read the passage, but he was on the backfoot the entire time, He was obviously using Soresu. He used Soresu to hold off Rahm Kota's attacks long enough to tire him out, that's probably what he did to Ti as well. And Ventress' Makashi wasn't Orthodox in the slightest, other wise the Jedi like Unduli wouldn't have had such trouble with her. And do we have any evidence to support that? I'd strongly disagree. Not only had Marek's training under Vader been completed but one does not go from being the same power level as Ventress to being able to influence Star Destroyers within the space of a few months. That and by this point Marek's mastery over the Force has already demonstrated itself to be superior to Ventress'. Noting that his career started when he was a child, the events of TFU are his final tests. My point was that Ventress doesn't possess the same raw power as Marek. I suspect Ti, whether through recognizing his form or simply his ability, released the power of her opponent, power that she - being an inferior Force User and perhaps even lightsaber duelist, knew she could not withstand if unleashed and allowed to build. Ventress possesses no such power, and therefore Shaak Ti will not expend her energy keeping her on the defense. Unduli was a master of Soresu, she had no knowledge of Makashi. Nor was Unduli overwhelmed either way, it was Ventress' superior speed that led to her defeat, not her inferior lightsaber skills. Regardless, Ti is a master of Makashi, and it doesn't matter how unorthodox her style was (which it really wasn't) it has the core components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) And do we have any evidence to support that? No direct quotes (about bladelock specifically) but we see Anakin obliterate her with Power strike on Kamino and Yavin, and then Dooku do the same on Rattatak. However later on in her life, we see her hold a bladelock with 2 Jedi (Ahsoka and Unduli) at once, and not lose any ground, and then we see her compete with Savage Opress in a bladelock (You know, the force enhanced Dathomiri Knightbrother) and actually win. I'd strongly disagree. Not only had Marek's training under Vader been completed but one does not go from being the same power level as Ventress to being able to influence Star Destroyers within the space of a few months. That and by this point Marek's mastery over the Force has already demonstrated itself to be superior to Ventress'. Noting that his career started when he was a child, the events of TFU are his final tests. Then again it seems I need to make my point once more. Look at it this way. Vader was supposedly 80% of Sidious' power, yet the difference between what the two could do was astronomical. Ventress has brought down Cavern Rooftops before, and in a few months I have no doubt someone who grew as rapidly as starkiller, could go from that to Influencing a Star Destroyer. Also, Ventress has shown some impressive force feats, Force Rage, Force Speed, Force Grip, shattering a cavern, and Force Crush if you count it (Was about to use it to stop Master Fay's heart before she was stopped) My point was that Ventress doesn't possess the same raw power as Marek. I suspect Ti, whether through recognizing his form or simply his ability, released the power of her opponent, power that she - being an inferior Force User and perhaps even lightsaber duelist, knew she could not withstand if unleashed and allowed to build. Ventress possesses no such power, and therefore Shaak Ti will not expend her energy keeping her on the defense. Raw power doesn't mean much, it's how you manage to apply it in duels that counts. Unduli was a master of Soresu, she had no knowledge of Makashi. Nor was Unduli overwhelmed either way, it was Ventress' superior speed that led to her defeat, not her inferior lightsaber skills. Regardless, Ti is a master of Makashi, and it doesn't matter how unorthodox her style was (which it really wasn't) it has the core components. Well, Soresu was derived as a way of making a more defensive form of Makashi, so they obviously shared roots. And of course, all jedi went through training in basic forms, at least enough to be able to recognize them. Also, Unduli actually criticized Ventress' style, said it was Unrefined, Amateurish and Sloppy, and she believed it to. Couldn't make these observations without knowing the Style. Edited January 22, 2014 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Well, Soresu was derived as a way of making a more defensive form of Makashi, so they obviously shared roots. And of course, all jedi went through training in basic forms, at least enough to be able to recognize them. Also, Unduli actually criticized Ventress' style, said it was Unrefined, Amateurish and Sloppy, and she believed it to. Couldn't make these observations without knowing the Style. That's not what Unduli was talking about. Unduli recognized Dooku's fighting style in Ventresse's lightsaber fighting. Unduli said that compared to Dooku's style, Ventress was unrefined, amateurish, and sloppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) I think it's time for everyone to start posting their final arguments. (Bonus points for scenarios!!! ) Edited January 23, 2014 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) The opponents stare each other down in the arena, Ventress with a sly silky walk with a grin covering her face, Shaak Ti however takes no notice of the Dark Jedi's mind games and sits in a meditative state. Ventress scans her opponent and thinks the Jedi a fool, relying on her vaunted light side to protect her, she has killed Jedi Masters before and very quickly, she will add another to her collection. The moment the battle is commenced however, Ventress is surprised, small balls of blue energy start appearing around her, the moment she goes for a backflip, they explode in balls of lightning, injuring her, however the surprise only sends Ventress into a rage, attempting to fight power with power, she goes for a Force Push to smash the Jedi Master backwards into a Nexu's skeletal remains, hoping to impale the master before the fight even starts. However, Ventress is surprised when Shaak Ti's reply is simply to stand and place her hands out, she absorbs the Night Sister's attempt and unleashes a Force Push of her own, Ventress immediately goes on the defensive, using an acrobatic leap to land on the top of a freshly killed Rancor's body, the moment she lands however, Shaak Ti, now dis-robed, is following in her wake, her masterful display of Ataru easily allowing her to follow up the grey assassin's defensive posture. Hoping to catch the Togruta off guard she spins into her own Makashi style, blades of red clashing with Shaak Ti's blue, however Ventress is stunned when she reverses one of her attempts at a counter-attack with her own contentious opportunity strike, Ventress however spins out of the attack, kicking the Togruta in the back and using a Force Leap to regroup, landing squarely in the center, she observes the Jedi's own graceful twirl in the air, seeing the blade squarely pointed at her, she takes a stance for a Makashi Riposte but is sent reeling when Shaak Ti plunges her lightsaber into the floor and causes a Force Tremor. Maintaining the attack, Master Ti easily parries her opponent's Makashi attacks, her own mastery of the Form completely catching the Dathomiri off-guard, only Dooku had shown such foot-work and she was no match for her master. Realising that she was quickly losing this fight she does a spinning wheel-kick to knock the Jedi Master off her feet, connection her blades at the hilt, she goes for a pure double-bladed defensive posture, hoping that the strange angle of her blades will keep the Jedi Master at bay. But the Jedi Master does not go for an immediate assault, instead the skeletal remains and the carcasses of dead beasts are being thrown at Ventress, keeping her off concentration, seeing the immediate opening, Shaak Ti flies in at immense speed and cuts at the centre of the Dathomiri's blade, but both of the women take cuts to the abdomen as the blades split apart, Shaak Ti then relies on her ability in Force Bolster to hold off the pain but Ventress is sent reeling by the attack, grasping her stomach she goes for a Force Choke retaliation but this proves in-effective on the Togruta's powerful Force Barriers. Shaak Ti moves in for the kill, Ventress attempts to ignore the pain with blind rage, using both her lightsabers to go in for a finishing move herself, however the rage she is flung into, to keep herself alive keeps her mentally un-balanced, Shaak Ti sees the fatal mistake, as they twirl blades, Shaak Ti goes for a piercing attack to the abdomen, Ventress predictably attempts to block and attack simultaneously, using sun djem, Shaak Ti twirls her blade around and both removes four of Ventress' fingers and destroys the lightsaber. Ventress screams in pain with the loss of most of her right hand, in an instinctive display of Force Wave, she manages to catch the Togruta in mid flight, sending her flying backwards, Ventress goes into retreat, hoping to hide, she uses the Force to blast at the Desert itself, causing a minor sandstorm, she switches off her remaining blade, hoping to hide within one of the dead beast's ribcage, slipping into a trance, realising her only hope is to heal her abdomen. Shaak Ti however uses her natural gift with ultra sonic waves to hear the deactivation of Ventress' lightsaber, sensing the Dark Jedi's groans and pains, she sees the carcass that Asajj is taking cover in and instead of immediately going in for the kill, she meditates and then unleashes Kinetite, surrounding the corpse with balls of lightning energy, unleashing them on the corpse itself, all the Togruta senses are the agonising screams of her opponent as she is electrocuted to death inside her own cover, finally sensing her death through the Force. The Jedi collapses, using what little reserves of Force Energy she has left to remain in a healing state, Gamorrean Guards come marching in as the crowd cheers and the holo-vids replay the fight, Hutts laughing, fights breaking out as bets are lost and won, the Jedi Master is dragged out of the arena barely alive. Edited January 24, 2014 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 A very good scenario, Rayla! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sell-dog Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) A very good scenario, Rayla! I agree, LadyKulvax you should use this scenario as part of your resume to write a SW Novel! Edited January 24, 2014 by sell-dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Grrr, Now I've got to go all story mode. Won't be as good as Rayla's, but meh, let's do this Blazing light erupts in the Arena, Limestone sand gleams white under the intense beams of the Battlezone arena. 2 landmarks stand tall against the barren wasteland, an elegant Togruta blade by her side, and a dathomiri witch, somehow emanating an aura of darkness in this blistering light. In a split second, 3 blades ignite, the Jedi Master taking an early acrobatic spin and launching herself at Ventress, pressing the two down in a Saber Lock. Ventress' twin blades hold steady, as she pushes the Jedi back, aided with the Force. The two glance blows, prodding and testing their opponents defenses. After a mere minute of glancing blows, Shaak Ti realizes how this battle must play out. The two duelists specialized in Makashi, and it would take each other quite some time to break through their Opponents defense, but Ti knows Ventress isn't versed in Ataru, and that is where she will Fall. Ti presses the offence, her Ataru stance forcing Ventress on the back foot, but Ventress has faced aggressive Jedi before, Skywalker and Kenobi had both attacked her in similar ways. Ventress had learned her lesson. She slowly lures Shaak Ti back, with each blow a new step backwards, all the way to the rusty and withering bones of a deceased Krayt Dragon. All this time, Ventress is taunting Ti... "Do you think you'll be able to call on the force once I've separated your head from your body?" "I almost feel bad for those Jedi during Knightfall, if only they had a competent master to save them..." In due time they reached the bones, which Ventress had mapped out clearly in her head on the way down. She had made sure to bring glancing blows back to Ti, a quick strike with her second blade, to keep the Jedi on her toes and focused on the duel, not Ventress' plan. As they reach the Ruin, Ventress reaches out with the force, she leaps back onto a rib, and collapses the rest, bringing the bones all towards Ti. Ti however predicted this, she slams her saber into the ground and erupts a Force Tremor. The last standing rib, with Ventress perched atop, begins to fall. She leaps back into the fray. "I will destroy you Jedi filth, you were a lonely master and a terrible teacher. Your padawans died in disgrace, how do you think you can challenge ME?" Ti smirks, though the sudden reminder of her Padawans deaths brings shame, and a slight tear to her eye. To cover up, she retorts: "I may have let my Padawans down, but at least they were worthy of tutelage, at least I didn't feel the need to abandon them, let them die at the hands of my enemies, like your master did to you..." Only too late did Ti realize her mistake. Both Force users had been exhausted by their previous displays of Power, but Ti had just re-fueled Ventress in a Dark Rage. Ventress lashed out with the Force, launching Ti into a nearby boulder. She struggled to Rise, she called on the force to heal her feeble frame. Ventress launched herself at Ti, slashing and pulsing with Rage, she sliced Ti on her bear arm, and upper shoulder. All Ti could see was a haze of Red, like fire, surrounding the Dark Acolyte. She retaliated to the best of her ability, as the two both tried desperately to end their Foe, Ti managed to Graze ventress in the chest. Usually a blow that would force a Jedi/Sith on the defensive, Ventress shrugs it off, her Rage is fueled into a Sith Trance, allowing her to reduce the pain until she kills Ti. The Jedi, exhausted, cannot withstand the assault anymore, Ventress disarms her, and her two crimson blades slice across Ti's chest like sabers through Ice. Ti is no more. Ventress falls to her knees, and is forced into her Sith Trance to stay alive. She lives to fight another day... PS: I put the Sith Battle Trance in just to even the odds, she showed herself capable in her last battle. That has yet to be rendered non canon, but it probably will be soon. This battle would have favored ventress either way IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 I thought it was good, Sel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I thought it was good, Sel. Meh, not my best. I usually re-write fan fictions about 4 times before I post them, but it seems there's too much Shaak Ti support to waste time on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Meh, not my best. I usually re-write fan fictions about 4 times before I post them, but it seems there's too much Shaak Ti support to waste time on it Well, I've been thinking of writing fan-fic esque scenarios, but I usually rewrite mine too. Anyway, I'll post the final decision tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 While I work on the decision, I have something (besides writing scenarios for those who want to) for all of you to do. I have several matches written up and I would like the people to weigh in on which match should be featured next. I will post a list of one character from each match written. Darth Plagueis Darth Malak Agen Kolar Exar Kun Darth Bane Kit Fisto The next match will be posted on Monday, so you have plenty of time to vote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Eh none of them really interest me lol. But I guess.....Plagueis? He has some nice stuff. Edited January 24, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 While I work on the decision, I have something (besides writing scenarios for those who want to) for all of you to do. I have several matches written up and I would like the people to weigh in on which match should be featured next. I will post a list of one character from each match written. Darth Plagueis Darth Malak Agen Kolar Exar Kun Darth Bane Kit Fisto The next match will be posted on Monday, so you have plenty of time to vote! Exar Kun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Exar Kun. Only because I have a boat load of information, boy will that be fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Probably Plageuis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Hmm, I would think Plagueis would be an interesting subject. But who would he face?!?! Edited January 24, 2014 by ShadowMudkip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hmm, I would think Plagueis would be an interesting subject. But who would he face?!?! I'm keeping their opponents secret so people don't try to jump the gun on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I'm keeping their opponents secret so people don't try to jump the gun on me. AKA you are playing it smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Lol if it's Plageuis vs Kun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Lol if it's Plageuis vs Kun... Trust me, it's not. Each name posted is one half of their own match. Though that would be a good match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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