Aurbere Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Welcome back to The BattleZone! Due to time limitations on my part, matches will be posted in no particular order, so here is the first match of the Winner's Brackets! Lightsaber Skill: Asajj Ventress: Asajj Ventress was a surprisingly masterful duelist. She was originally trained in the Jedi arts by Ky Narec, a Jedi Master stranded on Rattatak, but his death caused her fall to the dark side and led to her eventual tutelage under Count Dooku. Ventress has displayed masterful skill in Jar’Kai dual-wielding and double-bladed lightsaber combat. She is also highly proficient in Makashi, Ataru, and Niman. Ataru featured heavily in her style, and she had little issue with incorporating Force attacks into her fighting style. Though her style was deemed sloppy and without tact by some, she has proven herself to be more than capable of holding her own against Jedi Masters. She has bested Jedi High Council members, and easily defeated multiple Jedi Masters simultaneously. She has even held her own against Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker on multiple occasions. Shaak Ti: Shaak Ti was considered to be one of the greatest swordmasters of her time. She was a master of Ataru and Makashi, blending the two styles together for a highly precise and acrobatic fighting style. Her mastery of Ataru allowed her to overcome Makashi’s lack of kinetic force in its attacks, and her mastery of Makashi allowed all of her attacks to be highly precise to the point that even her most reckless attacks were incredibly precise. The Niman principle of incorporating Force-based attacks in battle figured heavily in her style as she had little issue with using Force Pushes and Pulls to engage multiple opponents at a time. Shaak Ti’s skills were enough that she was able to hold her own against dozens of General Grievous’ IG-100 MagnaGuards. During the Battle of Coruscant, Ti displayed a high-level skill in Jar’Kai dual wielding, using her own lightsaber and an electrostaff to fend off Grievous’ bodyguards. Shaak Ti was more than a match for Darth Vader’s secret apprentice Galen Marek. Edge: Though Ventress may not be considered a ‘master’ of any Form, she has proven herself more than capable of holding her own against master duelists. Their skill sets are very similar, but in the end, Shaak Ti gets the edge because of her high-level mastery of Makashi and Ataru that allowed her to eliminate both of their weaknesses. However, the edge is by no means great. Physicality: Asajj Ventress: Asajj Ventress is a female Dathomirian in her prime. She is very acrobatic and very tough. She can suffer minor to potentially debilitating injuries with no detriment to her physical ability. Shaak Ti: Shaak Ti is an aging Togruta female, yet she is physically fit. She is very strong, highly agile, and incredibly tough. She has displayed incredible stamina, fighting a marathon lightsaber duel and engaging in drawn out conflicts on multiple occasions. She has even suffered blaster wounds to the chest and continued fighting. Her agility was incredible. She could maneuver the energy beams projected by a lightstorm chamber without suffering injury. Her cranial horns provide her with a sense of echolocation and give her precise information about her environment. Edge: The edge is obvious. Ti is a physically superior fighter. She has more than matched Ventress’ agility and toughness, and her natural Togruta physicality gives her an advantage. Mentality: Asajj Ventress: When Asajj Ventress’ Jedi mentor, Ky Narec, was slain, she believed that the Jedi had abandoned him there, leading her to develop a burning hatred for Jedi. As the Clone Wars progressed, that hatred became focused on Obi-Wan Kenobi. Though she was considered to be tactless when confronting Jedi, she has displayed great ingenuity on the battlefield. She is an excellent dueling tactician, often studying her opponent for weaknesses and then preying on that weakness. She was also adept at using the environment to her advantage, either leading opponents to places where she would have the advantage or using the environment as a weapon to achieve victory. Asajj Ventress was also a capable practitioner of the Sith Dun Moch tactic, using it in many of her battles, even causing one of her Jedi opponents to turn to the dark side and fight for her. However, she is also susceptible to taunts from her opponents. On multiple accounts, an opponent’s taunts have off-balanced her and sent her into a rage, usually causing her defeat. Shaak Ti: As a society, Togruta generally prefer to stay in groups. Because she joined the Jedi Order, she could not be with her people, and she struggled mentally because of this. Even more taxing on her mind was the loss of two of her students. However, she did eventually move past these traumas. Shaak Ti was widely considered to be one of the most cunning warriors in the Jedi Order, particularly by Mace Windu and Obi-Wan Kenobi. She was adept at using the surrounding environment to her advantage, and she was especially capable of proficient multi-tasking. During her duel with Galen Marek on Felucia, she fought him and controlled the massive sarlaac simultaneously. Ti was a capable user of Dun Moch. Her mental defense against such taunts was profound. During the Battle of Brentaal IV Ti encountered the woman who murdered one of her former Padawans. Throughout the battle, the woman consistently taunted her about the murder and Ti ignored her, keeping her cool and trying to keep her promise that she would get the woman out of the battle alive. Edge: Asajj Ventress is a capable dueling tactician, but she doesn’t take taunts well. On several occasions, she has been driven into a rage by her opponents. She would abandon tactical thinking for a rage-fueled offense, usually ending in her own defeat. On the other hand, Ti’s mind is sharp and she has proven herself capable of shrugging off taunts and insults and remaining focused. Ti’s calm mind and tactical ingenuity get her the edge. Force Abilities: Asajj Ventress: Despite her little training Asajj Ventress was a very powerful Force user. She was especially capable with Force-based physical enhancements that allowed her to perform the superhuman abilities that Force users are known for. Her Force Speed, in particular, was very impressive. She was capable of silently traversing an entire jungle and covertly eliminating a squad of clone troopers in a matter of minutes. She developed very powerful telekinetic abilities. She was capable of moving and throwing large heavy objects with ease, and even break through the Force defenses of other Force users to telekinetically assault them with powerful Force Pushes, Force Grips, and Force Chokes. She was even capable of using the Force to crush an opponent’s heart. Ventress was adept in using the Force to mentally manipulate others. She could use basic Jedi Mind Tricks to extract information from others and even use the Force to control animals. She was also proficient in the use of Quetek Meditation, a method to conceal oneself in the Force. The ability wasn’t perfect, someone actively looking for her could find her, but she was very thorough in covering her tracks. Ventress was also capable of reanimating the dead, a skill she used to revive dead Gungans to attack Obi-Wan Kenobi. Shaak Ti: Shaak Ti was widely considered to be one of the most powerful members of the Jedi Order. Naturally, Togrutas feel a deep connection to the Force. They are able to tap into it easier than most other species. Shaak Ti was no different, though her talents in the Force were more basic. Ti had developed a high-level mastery of telekinesis. Many of her displays were subtle, such as tying General Grievous’ cape to a maglev train during a brief period of respite, but her offensive displays were not lacking in power. She was more than capable of using telekinetic attacks to subdue multiple opponents at a time, or rip large objects from the ground to throw at opponents. She could even telekinetically manipulate her own lightsaber to attack enemies. Force-based telepathy and Mind Tricks were also in her repertoire. She was capable of maintaining a mental link with Felucia’s mega Sarlaac while simultaneously engaging Galen Marek. Ti was skilled capable of manipulating plant life, and she was also skilled in Tutaminis, using it to defend against lightsaber strikes. Edge: While Ti’s abilities are precise and powerful, Asajj Ventress is an incredibly powerful user of many basic and esoteric dark side abilities. Ti’s telepathic powers are unlikely to come into play, and Ventress’ telekinetic abilities are simply more powerful. It’s a case of refinement versus raw power. In this case, Asajj Ventress’ raw power gets the edge. Thoughts: This match's given edges were very difficult for me to judge, so I expect there will be differing opinions on the given edge. Just remember that they are my opinion only. So who will win? Who is truly superior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Tbh Aurbere, I prob would have given the dueling edge to Ventress considering her dueling accomplishments. I'm not really recalling anything spectacular for Ti as far as dueling goes. Anyway as for the fight itself....meh, neither of these chars suit my fancy so don't really care who wins. Edited January 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Tbh Aurbere, I prob would have given the dueling edge to Ventress considering her dueling accomplishments. I'm not really recalling anything spectacular for Ti as far as dueling goes. Anyway as for the fight itself....meh, neither of these chars suit my fancy so don't really care who wins. The lightsaber skill edge would have been minimal no matter who I picked, so I don't think it really matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The lightsaber skill edge would have been minimal no matter who I picked, so I don't think it really matters. How is it minimal? But /shrug whichever, I just thought i'd throw in my 2 cents. I'll let others debate for this on who wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 How is it minimal? But /shrug whichever, I just thought i'd throw in my 2 cents. I'll let others debate for this on who wins. Because I don't just focus on who they have faced unless they share a common foe. Which they don't. I have to focus on skillsets and overall lightsaber mastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'd probably see the fight being Very Even until the end, where I think the taunting nature of Jedi to Ventress would push Ventress into a Force Rage. We've seen this happen a couple of times towards her prime, and I think once Ti has done that there's no going back, Ventress would cripple her with a choke then execute her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'd probably see the fight being Very Even until the end, where I think the taunting nature of Jedi to Ventress would push Ventress into a Force Rage. We've seen this happen a couple of times towards her prime, and I think once Ti has done that there's no going back, Ventress would cripple her with a choke then execute her... I've been trying to find video examples of her Force Rage, but I can't. Care to point me to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I've been trying to find video examples of her Force Rage, but I can't. Care to point me to them? I can't find any Videos on youtube of the most prominent case, but the obvious one coming to mind is Ventress vs Skywalker and Kenobi in the hangar after she's betrayed. Chokes them both at the same time, probably would have killed them had the hangar not been hit, shaken, and exploded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I can't find any Videos on youtube of the most prominent case, but the obvious one coming to mind is Ventress vs Skywalker and Kenobi in the hangar after she's betrayed. Chokes them both at the same time, probably would have killed them had the hangar not been hit, shaken, and exploded. The reason I ask is because I want to know the circumstances surrounding those instances. Regarding your example, I'm not sure I can consider that display valid due to the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I think Shaak Ti has an enormous edge over Ventress due to her ability to 'Fight a lightsaber marathon'. Shaak Ti can most certainly out-last Ventress in Stamina, Endurance and Will and I am not convinced that any amount of rage on Ventress' part would effect the duel, why? because Starkiller is prone to fits of rage and constantly unleashes bouts of raw-power in his battles and against Shaak Ti this did him little good, she effectively committed suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Well Ti did have some help via that sarlacc thing. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483204-the_force_unleashed_042.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483205-the_force_unleashed_043.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483206-the_force_unleashed_044.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483207-the_force_unleashed_045.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483208-the_force_unleashed_046.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483209-the_force_unleashed_047.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483211-the_force_unleashed_048.jpg So...I don't see how that is gonna compare to this fight, unless Ti is gonna have some giant creature helping her out. Anyway...gonna stay outta this one as I said. Edited January 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Well Ti did have some help via that sarlacc thing. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483204-the_force_unleashed_042.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483205-the_force_unleashed_043.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483206-the_force_unleashed_044.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483207-the_force_unleashed_045.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483208-the_force_unleashed_046.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483209-the_force_unleashed_047.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1483211-the_force_unleashed_048.jpg So...I don't see how that is gonna compare to this fight, unless Ti is gonna have some giant creature helping her out. Anyway...gonna stay outta this one as I said. Nope. No Mega Sarlaac. As a reminder for everyone, here is a description of the arena: A massive domed structure rises from the swamps of Nal Hutta. The walls are made of solid twelve-inch thick durasteel lined with Cortosis ore. Using atmosphere and climate control technology from Dorin, the Hutts transformed the field of battle into a desert wasteland. The skeletons of mighty rancors, nexu, reek, and other creatures litter the field, serving as places of cover or traps to trip up combatants. At the center is a mound that will serve as the starting point for sentient fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Well that comic strip is certainly not how it is depicted in the novelisation, she more than weathers multiple major Force attacks from Starkiller and continues to fight on. The planet helping her or otherwise is irrelevant, my point was that Ventress' Rage is not nearly as powerful as Starkiller's brutal raw Force powers, which as the novelisation clearly depicts, she even deflects and sends back one of his own attacks and nearly knocks him out cold. Point being: Ventress' rage is not going to break Shaak Ti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Edit: No, no...I won't be sucked into this. Was just merely making a point about the sarlacc. NO!.../hits self. Stop getting sucked into this! I don't care who wins! Edited January 7, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Well that comic strip is certainly not how it is depicted in the novelisation, she more than weathers multiple major Force attacks from Starkiller and continues to fight on. The planet helping her or otherwise is irrelevant, my point was that Ventress' Rage is not nearly as powerful as Starkiller's brutal raw Force powers, which as the novelisation clearly depicts, she even deflects and sends back one of his own attacks and nearly knocks him out cold. Point being: Ventress' rage is not going to break Shaak Ti. What is the policy regarding contradictions between C-canon sources? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) What is the policy regarding contradictions between C-canon sources? What I am looking for, so far I have gotten Novel = Comic are the same. But I'm getting more into it, though TFU comic was written by the game writer of...well the game. So....? Also if there be a forum update or patch for the game tomorrow, this shall be my last night with you all! Edited January 7, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 What I am looking for, so far I have gotten Novel = Comic are the same. But I'm getting more into it, though TFU comic was written by the game writer of...well the game. So....? Also if there be a forum update or patch for the game tomorrow, this shall be my last night with you all! Personally, my first guess would be that discrepancies favor the books. And it's sad to see you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Personally, my first guess would be that discrepancies favor the books. And it's sad to see you go. I guess use the novel? Yeah? Well w/e, I was merely just pointing out that Ti had the sarlacc helping her out. She doesn't have a backup is my point. I guess we could follow both somehow since they are equal? Though I don't see why Ventress would need to rage to win. She seemed to do well against others without doing so. NO! STOP GETTING INTO THIS! /Slaps self. /Leaves thread for good now. I will not respond to that comment there. Edited January 7, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 I guess use the novel? Yeah? Well w/e, I was merely just pointing out that Ti had the sarlacc helping her out. She doesn't have a backup is my point. I guess we could follow both somehow since they are equal? Though I don't see why Ventress would need to rage to win. She seemed to do well against others without doing so. NO! STOP GETTING INTO THIS! /Slaps self. /Leaves thread for good now. I will not respond to that comment there. You're absolutely right. Shaak Ti doesn't have help here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Point being missed here, the belief was made earlier in the debate that Ventress' rage could overwhelm and kill Shaak Ti. I am pointing out that she has successfully defended against attacks from freaking Starkiller, a good Force Choke from Ventress isn't going to kill one of the best and when I say best i don't just mean 'master swordsman' like a bunch of others in the Order, I mean one of the best all around warriors in the entire Jedi Order at the time. Shaak Ti is an extremely intelligent, cunning and masterful warrior and has taken on immense opponents, whether it's dozens of Magna Guards, Starkiller or an army of droids, she has never been properly over-whelmed before. The only time when Shaak Ti ever decided to call it quits and fight another day was when Darth Vader and the entire freakin 501st marched into the Jedi Temple, she knew the Temple was doomed and there was nothing she could do, she had also had a vision that she had a larger role to play after the Order was destroyed and had visions of Felucia, that right there is the only time she's outright believed she had no chance. Beyond that occasion, she has performed like a tank several times. Edited January 7, 2014 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) As much as I hate to say it, Ventress loses again: Shaak Ti is the superior duelist and arguably has a stylistic edge over Ventress given that Ataru focuses on broad and powerful strokes, and she herself as a master of Makashi will be able to exploit the flaws in Ventress' technique nor will she be overcome by the sheer finesse of the style. Shaak Ti has a great deal of stamina and endurance and therefore is more than likely capable of weathering Ventress' Force based attacks, which other less capable individuals have done. Both Ti and Ventress are cunning duelists, which cancel each other out. Ventress simply doesn't have a leg to stand on in this situation. Edited January 7, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) As much as I hate to say it, Ventress loses again: Shaak Ti is the superior duelist and arguably has a stylistic edge over Ventress given that Ataru focuses on broad and powerful strokes, and she herself as a master of Makashi will be able to exploit the flaws in Ventress' technique nor will she be overcome by the sheer finesse of the style. Shaak Ti has a great deal of stamina and endurance and therefore is more than likely capable of weathering Ventress' Force based attacks, which other less capable individuals have done. Both Ti and Ventress are cunning duelists, which cancel each other out. Ventress simply doesn't have a leg to stand on in this situation. Pretty much what I was thinking, Shaak Ti almost over-whelmed Starkilller in their battle in a1 vs 1 lightsaber duel once Starkiller moved the battle far away enough from the Sarlacc, he had to retreat instead. The fact that Shaak Ti has the ability to overwhelm Starkiller on even ground speaks volumes considering Starkiller himself was more than a match for Vader. Ventress is utterly out-matched in the Force as well, Shaak Ti was so powerful that she was single-handedly stopping the entire planet of Felucia from becoming twisted and corrupt, she stopped the taint of the Dark Side, but when she died it quickly became a place of evil, now that is some serious Force power. Edited January 7, 2014 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 As much as I hate to say it, Ventress loses again: What do you mean 'again'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 What do you mean 'again'?Well she technically lost the duel with Maul, and was forced to retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Well she technically lost the duel with Maul, and was forced to retreat. Technically yes, but she did eventually win through tactical ingenuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts