Remove 12 vs 12

[Morkatog]

Like the title said, remove 12vs12 in starfighter and stick to 8vs8.

 

I've been playing starfighter for a while now and find that the balance is quite alright in 8vs8, but it goes out of the window in 12vs12. Every time I play a 12 vs 12 match it's the same thing: it becomes a gunship match, followed by missile boats, and leaving no space for dogfighting strikefighters.

The maps just aren't large enough to support 12vs12 in a way that's competative for every ship setup.

When you try to get close with a strikefighter or scout you'll just get picked off by any of the other gunships / missile boats in the area.

While even that is combatable it requires a coordinated team effort which you'll never get unless you can shove in your 12 men premade.

 

Since it's hard to ask of your players that they only play 12vs12 premade, or that your players are actually willing to work as a team (at least 75% of the players aren't willing and most won't even speak English on EU servers) it's a lot nicer for everyone to just stick to 8vs8.

[Armonddd]

Please no, there aren't enough players to kill in 8v8.

[renegadeimp]

I disagree. 12v12 is fine as it is. Simply roll a character on another server, or get your servers GSF players to join a dedicated chat channel so you can all form a few premade groups and queue together. If the queues dont pop for all of you at teh same time, leave the queue and requeue till it does. You only need 6 premade groups for a 12v12, or 4 for an 8v8. It shouldnt be that hard to get 16+ players unless your server is dead.

[Morkatog]

I never felt like there was a lack of players to kill in 8vs8.

 

That said another alternative could be to add more objects along a route to a satellite which people can use to dodge gunships.

 

On a sidenote I've noticed that this problem mainly exists in the ice map.

[Armonddd]

I never felt like there was a lack of players to kill in 8vs8.

 

That said another alternative could be to add more objects along a route to a satellite which people can use to dodge gunships.

 

On a sidenote I've noticed that this problem mainly exists in the ice map.

 

Gunships are fairly easy to deal with if you don't just run straight up to them like a lemming. Erratic movements and cooldowns beat every form of camping in this game.

 

And what ice map are you talking about? I haven't seen any ice on either map.

[Itkovian]

12v12 is fine. The main different is that pre-mades can't make as much fo an impact in 12v12, and that's a GOOD thing. Of course, the implication is that it means the side with the most teamwork players will generally win, because a pre-made general can't win the match on its own if the other 8 just want to dogfight.

 

But either way, 12v12 is a good thing, and makes for more intense matches, and pug teamwork more important. That's a good thing, IMO.

[Lymain]

I prefer 12v12 over 8v8 by far, and I don't fly gunships (or missile boats, usually). It feels like there's too much running around and not enough actual fighting in 8v8.

[Armonddd]

12v12 is fine. The main different is that pre-mades can't make as much fo an impact in 12v12, and that's a GOOD thing.

 

That works until imps get a double premade... in the same match that pubs got a triple premade. (And yet we won anyway. Shrug.)

[Morkatog]

I forgot the name, but the map I was talking about is not the lost shipyard but that other one.

 

Gunships are easy to deal with, if they're solo or you have a team around you. If you're flying into a team of gunships and missile boats you will lose if you bring a team of strikefighters / scouts.

 

12vs12 is not fine because every fight feels too short. A player dies in less then 10 seconds whereas in 8vs8 you can actually have a dogfight 1vs1 that goes on for a minute, longer if you're lucky.

 

Also it's always missile boats and gunships on nr 1 in DPS all the time in 12vs12 with usually 2x more damage then the strikefighter. It's definately not because every single strikefighter player sux, it's a balance issue.

 

For that matter this sniper crap isn't supposed to be part of the star wars universe in the first place. Name me one movie, or a book in the extended universe where a similar mechanism is shown.

[Cashal]

I vote for 24 v 24! More carnage!

[-KeggER-]

This is an absolute no.

 

If anything, there should be 16v16, even 24v24... And group sizes need increased to 8.

[MCaliban]

I vote for 24 v 24! More carnage!

 

Give this man a hot fudge sundae.

[Slivovidze]

I don't care if I'm in 8v8 or 12v12. I don't fly a gunship or a missile boat. I fly a NovaDive. I score very good scores, no matter if 8v8 or 12v12. Myth busted.

 

I would also happily welcome 16v16 or even more, though.

[mr_sim]

I vote for 24 v 24! More carnage!

 

if fact Bioware Asked the code stability team how many players an instance could support, the answer was 24.

 

24 = 12 imperial + 12 republic.

 

This thread essentially is asking for something counter to Biowares vision as 12v12 is potentially smaller then they desired.

 

Also remember that other game modes will be coming and 12v12 will perform different in them. To the Original Poster, I recommend you wait for the more content to be released before reducing the ques can be considered.

[Ramalina]

What missile boats?

 

There are strike fighters with missiles and scouts with missiles. There are no missile boats with missiles.

 

This isn't to say that missile boats wouldn't be welcome in GS. Right now missiles are of marginal use against skilled pilots so a heavily missile dependent ship ( ie a free kill for other ship classes) would be a nice addition. Well, a nice addition for everyone except the people flying missile boats.

 

Of course, while it might seem silly that the missiles in GS have performance substantially inferior to air to air missiles designed and produced in the 1970s there is a reason for that. Effective missiles destroy dogfighting, not a good thing in a dogfighting based game.

 

Also it's not strictly speaking 12v12. It will work down to 6v6. It won't allow either side more than a 2 ship numerical advantage, but if there aren't a lot of people queuing or at least if they're not all joining the battle, it is entirely possible to have 8v8 matches.

[mr_sim]

What missile boats?

 

There are strike fighters with missiles and scouts with missiles. There are no missile boats with missiles.

 

I don't know exactly what the poster is talking about when he say missile boats either, but I offer this theory.

 

In Star Wars Tie Fighter, the final and ultimate Star fighter you receive access to was called the Missile Boat. In gam e lore it was designed as a natural counter to the Tie Defender. It incorporated 4 missile launchers, and a single laser cannon.

 

In GSF the Pike and Quell Strike fighters incorporate 4 missile launchers and a relatively weak laser armament. Just like the missile boat. Thought he missile boat had a larger weapons capacity and allowed linked(2 at a time) missile fire. A proper Missile boat analog would be:

 

- Quad laser cannons

- Cluster missiles

- any other missile type though best would be protorps(based on lore)

 

This^^ I my current loadout .

[DanNV]

Personally, I enjoy the 12 v 12 and wouldn't mind seeing something larger once there are sufficient players playing. Note, the current maps are too small for matches larger than 12 v 12. We'd need larger maps with objectives farther apart to make something bigger than 12 v 12 work.

[Armonddd]

Personally, I enjoy the 12 v 12 and wouldn't mind seeing something larger once there are sufficient players playing. Note, the current maps are too small for matches larger than 12 v 12. We'd need larger maps with objectives farther apart to make something bigger than 12 v 12 work.

 

Or more objectives. Or more capital ships (ones designed to be blown up). Or something like that.

[mattycutts]

hell no.

 

Most fun i have is in 12v12. wish for more 12v12 than 8v8.

[Morkatog]

Larger would work for me also. Either that or smaller, but 12vs12 is a bust and I'm surprised to see so many people who claim to have a different opinion.

 

In 12vs12 I'm never ever killed in a dogfight, it's always either missiles or gunships.

 

Since some people are confused about what I mean with missile boats: with the right setup you can build a ship with shield penetrating missiles that oneshots other players. I won't eleborate here on how to do it as I don't want to encourage anyone to do so, but I've also build my scout in such a manner. It works, and anyone who's done enough starfighter matches should at least have experienced what I'm talking about.

[ptwonline]

No, 12v12 is actually really, really good. Very intense.

[reclipsed]

Gunships are fairly easy to deal with if you don't just run straight up to them like a lemming. Erratic movements and cooldowns beat every form of camping in this game.

 

And what ice map are you talking about? I haven't seen any ice on either map.

 

I agree. But sometimes you're in the open and that Gunship is under 9k away and has a charge on you. What do you do? Do you try to run and get your butt blasted or do you bite the bullet and charge like keanu in the last samurai hoping to get RNG love.

 

I only try this on my Strike because I can take at least 2 shots and I've taken a few Gunships down with me doing the death boost

[Armonddd]

I agree. But sometimes you're in the open and that Gunship is under 9k away and has a charge on you. What do you do? Do you try to run and get your butt blasted or do you bite the bullet and charge like keanu in the last samurai hoping to get RNG love.

 

I pop Distortion Field.

[Ayershole]

I pop Distortion Field.

 

so much this. also, remove 12v12? really? get, or make, some friends that play this game. just because you suck, doesn't meant that 12v12 needs to go.

 

Your lack of skill/friends doesn't mean the space PvP needs to change.

[CaliJoe]

I never felt like there was a lack of players to kill in 8vs8.

 

That said another alternative could be to add more objects along a route to a satellite which people can use to dodge gunships.

 

On a sidenote I've noticed that this problem mainly exists in the ice map.

 

I agree. There's a lot of open space between the B satellite and A / C. Getting tagged by a gunship on the far side of a satellite, then attempting to cut the distance (lose every time) with all that open space. Frustrating.