Scouts

[RassMatass]

How the hell is it possible to be literally 2shot by scouts in a starfighter almost fully upgraded?? Its pathetic and stupid. Scouts running around from end of the map to the other doing as much as 100k dmg a fight IS BEYOND stupid.

[Armonddd]

This only happens when the scout has burst lasers and is good enough to get most of his shots at close range.

 

Skill more, I guess.

[Eldrenath]

Scouts can do this, but it isn't easy and it certainly doesn't happen all the time. It typically means burst laser + blaster overcharge + Bypass + plus VERY close range and often means a lucky crit or two in the mix. I've done it many times in my scout, but I certainly can't do it every time. You have to get a non-moving target (gunship usually) that is unaware that someone has gotten right on them, and you have to have your skills off cooldown.

 

Scouts can get a ton of damage, but NO ONE is regularly getting 100k damage. There are certainly some that have (the GSF records thread shows this) but it also shows that some of the top 5 damage spots were done in gunships--so it isn't just scouts that can post 100k damage. And gunships can truly one shot you. From 15k. While you're moving. So this isn't an issue with scouts.

 

Yes, scouts can move all over the map, but gunships can post these numbers and don't have to move all over the map due to their range capability.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Eldrenath

[mr_sim]

This only happens when the scout has burst lasers and is good enough to get most of his shots at close range.

 

^^This. Though I'm no scout pilot I think they are using stacked buffs/abilities.

 

It only comes from the flashfire/sting not the other scout class.

 

While there are some strong feelings about GS, mostly from tin metal scouts I suspect. This scout Super burst is probably at the top of the needs to be nerfed list.

 

Is Bioware aware of it? I have no idea.

 

To those who think this is not something that needs a nerf. Just consider:

 

- it diminishes gameplay enjoyment for other classes.

- it is not vital for a scouts gameplay.

[Eldrenath]

While there are some strong feelings about GS, mostly from tin metal scouts I suspect. This scout Super burst is probably at the top of the needs to be nerfed list.

 

Is Bioware aware of it? I have no idea.

 

To those who think this is not something that needs a nerf. Just consider:

 

- it diminishes gameplay enjoyment for other classes.

- it is not vital for a scouts gameplay.

 

100% disagree. Why is the scout 1-shot in need of a nerf before gunship 1-shot? As to your two closing points, many, MANY people have posted that gunship 1-shots diminish their enjoyment. And if 1-shots are not vital for scouts then they are also not vital for gunships. It's also a lot tougher to get this 1-shot off with a scout because you have to be RIGHT on them while gunships can do it from 15k while their enemy is completely unaware. Good gunship pilots pay attention to their surroundings and charging right up to them from 20k away isn't easy, they'll notice you coming and bolt. Even the best scout pilot can easily be caught unaware by a gunship 15k away with sensor dampening.

 

I'm not saying gunships need a nerf here--I'm just saying why complain about scouts and say they need a nerf when gunships cause the same problems you are describing? Seems selective.

 

What about gunships using scope to immediately halt barrel rolls whenever they want? Getting the full effect of the ion cannon slow from only tapping a target with no charge?

[Fractalsponge]

I don't believe any scout pilot at present can be "caught unawares" by a gunship at 15km except that they didn't see them on their HUD or minimap. Sensor dampening does not work past 15km, so even if I have 11.5km dampening and you have 17.5km sensors, you'll still see me at 15km, which is a bit annoying for a class that is supposed to run on surprise and ambush. This is on the Known Issues list.

[Armonddd]

^^This. Though I'm no scout pilot I think they are using stacked buffs/abilities.

 

It only comes from the flashfire/sting not the other scout class.

 

Not entirely true. The Novadive and Blackbolt can do significant damage with rocket pods... if you're amazing at scout. I dunno how Aya does it, but he does.

 

I'd also like to point out that Bypass is far from the only cooldown that's used for big numbers. Concentrated Fire is my current favorite, actually.

[Cordarn]

Well im going to guess you were flying in a straight line like some people ive encountered. And im sure you getting two shot is exaggerated since it takes multiple direct hits just to break shields.

[mr_sim]

100% disagree. Why is the scout 1-shot in need of a nerf before gunship 1-shot? As to your two closing points, many, MANY people have posted that gunship 1-shots diminish their enjoyment. And if 1-shots are not vital for scouts then they are also not vital for gunships. It's also a lot tougher to get this 1-shot off with a scout because you have to be RIGHT on them while gunships can do it from 15k while their enemy is completely unaware. Good gunship pilots pay attention to their surroundings and charging right up to them from 20k away isn't easy, they'll notice you coming and bolt. Even the best scout pilot can easily be caught unaware by a gunship 15k away with sensor dampening.

 

I'm not saying gunships need a nerf here--I'm just saying why complain about scouts and say they need a nerf when gunships cause the same problems you are describing? Seems selective.

 

What about gunships using scope to immediately halt barrel rolls whenever they want? Getting the full effect of the ion cannon slow from only tapping a target with no charge?

 

First off, GS only one shot scouts with any regularity. It simply doesn't happen enough to strikers or other GS and when it does it's epic level RNG events with buffs active. No it's not the same as only one class is victim and this represents a mechanic, there is a solution. that solution is a one ore 2 man team for counter GS operations. GS do not capture control points they only add fire support. A gunship cannot be effective unless it has fighters protecting it's role.

 

Scouts on the other hand are both objective and dogfighter craft. Where GS respond poorly to being targeted and attacked, aka GS can't dogfight. Scouts always dogfight. More to point is that while GS one shot scouts a vehicle with next to no armor/shields, they do not one shot strikers. This makes sense Scouts get a one shot as penalty for their being light craft, there are many benefits to them being light craft too but dying easy must be the cost.

 

The fact is that scout burst does not discriminate it is equally effective against all classes, which is wrong. More over I have seen pilots effectively and consistently repeat this effect, it is not rare, and if the pilot is so skilled they will be able to adapt to the loss of it.

Now Hear this if nothing else. I do believe scouts depend on burst dps, in fact I think it is vital and loss of burst dps would diminish the class. However the burst is simply over cranked by a margin and simply needs a downward adjustment. It will be at perfect level when a flashfire can drop in on a Striker and burn away most of him but not all of him before he has a chance to break off. By break off I don't mean get away necessarily but simply that the flashfire needs to line up his shot again to finish the striker off. that would be Balanced.

[Cordarn]

To those who think this is not something that needs a nerf. Just consider:

 

- it diminishes gameplay enjoyment for other classes.

- it is not vital for a scouts gameplay.

 

If it kills you it's "OP" to people because "OMG I GOT KILLED THATS NOT SUPPOSE TO HAPPEN THAT PERSON IS AN OP HACKER!"

 

Suuure it diminishes gameplay enjoyment for other classes, but did you know anyone who liked it when they got killed for any reason? It diminishes my gameplay enjoyment when I get kill by a strike/gunship

 

Without the decent amount of fire power the scout is useless save for capping first then its screwed over because it can neither fend for itself or defend anything.

 

Seriously the people who call out for nerf basically are saying this, "This thing killed me and thats not fair because its not suppose to kill me and I want an easy kill not a challenge so please nerf this." and while their at it they say this, "Oh and just nerf (insert whatever here) not strike/gunship because I play those a lot."

 

Complainers in a nutshell.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Cordarn

[mr_sim]

Not entirely true. The Novadive and Blackbolt can do significant damage with rocket pods... if you're amazing at scout. I dunno how Aya does it, but he does.

 

Listen if any Scout kills someone with Rocket pods he deserves any reward he asks for. That is not easy to do, requires an inordinate amount of rockets + luck + Skill. This isn't really what were talking about though and rockets are fine, though they might need a 25% or so reduction in ammo capacity but that is a whole other discussion.

[mr_sim]

If it kills you it's "OP" to people because "OMG I GOT KILLED THATS NOT SUPPOSE TO HAPPEN THAT PERSON IS AN OP HACKER!"

 

Suuure it diminishes gameplay enjoyment for other classes, but did you know anyone who liked it when they got killed for any reason?

 

Without the decent amount of fire power the scout is useless save for capping first then its screwed over because it can neither fend for itself or defend anything.

 

Seriously the people who call out for nerf basically are saying this, "This thing killed me and thats not fair because its not suppose to kill me and I want an easy kill not a challenge so please nerf this." and while their at it they say this, "Oh and just nerf (insert whatever here) not strike/gunship because I play those a lot."

 

Complainers in a nutshell.

 

See my reply I was writing at the same time, it's the post right above the one quoted here.

 

What you have to understand it's a needs of the many out weight the needs of the few case. If anything that is not vital to a class is making players quit GSF then it is in the interest of more people that it be adjusted. I can say with confidence that it is unlikely that flashfire pilots will quit GSF if they lose the ability to kill a striker in 2 seconds flat and it takes them a whole 8 seconds.

 

As for the GS thing. Honestly I'm a striker pilot, Striker vs GS gameplay is very balanced I die to as many skilled GS pilots as I kill. So this isn't my crusade.

 

I personally don't mind dying my share, my best match ever enjoyment wise was 2 solid teams and we lost but by the closest of margins, oh and there weren''t many Flashfires in the fight on either side.

[Sharee]

I don't believe any scout pilot at present can be "caught unawares" by a gunship at 15km except that they didn't see them on their HUD or minimap .

 

There is no warning beep "A gunship just entered at 15km". It appears as a dot on a radar that is already full of dots. Unless you do nothing but constantly hammer TAB cycling through all enemies in range, it is very well possible to be caught unaware.

[mr_sim]

There is no warning beep "A gunship just entered at 15km". It appears as a dot on a radar that is already full of dots. Unless you do nothing but constantly hammer TAB cycling through all enemies in range, it is very well possible to be caught unaware.

 

which is why countering GS is a big part of gameplay, same with submarines in WWII, you commit effort to prevent dying form the unseen enemy.

[Armonddd]

which is why countering GS is a big part of gameplay, same with submarines in WWII, you commit effort to prevent dying form the unseen enemy.

 

Yeah, but real life isn't fun. Games are supposed to be fun.

[Brewski]

Yeah, but real life isn't fun. Games are supposed to be fun.

 

I consider finding, tracking and killing gunships to be great fun. Why do you want to take the fun out of my game?

 

Gunships are a mechanic meant to add variability and diversity to the game so it doesn't become the same old turning war near the objective you get when all you have are scouts and strikers. When add bombers and infiltrators even more diversity will exist, and this is a good thing.

 

The existence of these mechanics makes people have to think. You can't just rush in blindly with guns blazing and expect to win. This is the reason we aren't all flying the same ship.

 

To the OP I would say the same thing. Scouts can be countered. I die more to well played strikers than anything else now. There may be tweaks needed, like to Bypass, but no single class of ship is OP at the moment. (Just some of the players. )

[Sharee]

I consider finding, tracking and killing gunships to be great fun. Why do you want to take the fun out of my game?

 

Gunships are a mechanic meant to add variability and diversity to the game so it doesn't become the same old turning war near the objective you get when all you have are scouts and strikers. When add bombers and infiltrators even more diversity will exist, and this is a good thing.

 

The existence of these mechanics makes people have to think. You can't just rush in blindly with guns blazing and expect to win. This is the reason we aren't all flying the same ship.

 

To the OP I would say the same thing. Scouts can be countered. I die more to well played strikers than anything else now. There may be tweaks needed, like to Bypass, but no single class of ship is OP at the moment. (Just some of the players. )

 

Agreed, the only problem i have with gunships is that due to their nature, if you kill one then you have to exclusively kill it over and over for the rest of the match, otherwise it will kill *you* over and over.

[GooseGrims]

If anything that is not vital to a class is making players quit GSF then it is in the interest of more people that it be adjusted. I can say with confidence that it is unlikely that flashfire pilots will quit GSF if they lose the ability to kill a striker in 2 seconds flat and it takes them a whole 8 seconds.

 

first off i would like some facts that ppl are quitting GSF because of this beyond your word.

 

second any ship can kill any other ship very quickly given the right circumstances.

 

got one thread QQing about scouts having evasion and being able to escape, this one you have ppl QQing that they shouldnt be able to do any real dps.

 

basically what you guys want are paper targets floating around space so you can get a higher kill count.

 

i kill plenty of scouts and GS's in my pike, i kill plenty of strikers and GS's in my flashfire (dont have gunship) and i get killed plenty by all 3 types, this takes me to an old saying, you win some you lose some.

 

im not saying nothing in GSF needs adjustments and/or buffs/nerfs but we cant know that cause all this is, is a bunch of QQ. this ship killed me when i was using this ship that shouldnt happen, more info would help. were you at full shields/hull or was your hull red? were you using directional shield and they hit you from the other end? were you sitting at a sat twiddling your thumbs and they got the jump on you?

 

from my exp it takes alot more than 1-2 shots to get through a shield and bypass only bypasses 35% of the shield.

and since the build scouts are using that tears ships up uses rapids im more inclined to believe that you either A) already took a great bit of dmg or B) werent paying attention or C) tried to run away from the scout, which strikers cant do, and GS's have a hard time doing (unless they are among the ones that park near the capital ship).

[Eldrenath]

First off, GS only one shot scouts with any regularity. It simply doesn't happen enough to strikers or other GS and when it does it's epic level RNG events with buffs active. No it's not the same as only one class is victim and this represents a mechanic, there is a solution. that solution is a one ore 2 man team for counter GS operations. GS do not capture control points they only add fire support. A gunship cannot be effective unless it has fighters protecting it's role.

 

Scouts on the other hand are both objective and dogfighter craft. Where GS respond poorly to being targeted and attacked, aka GS can't dogfight. Scouts always dogfight. More to point is that while GS one shot scouts a vehicle with next to no armor/shields, they do not one shot strikers. This makes sense Scouts get a one shot as penalty for their being light craft, there are many benefits to them being light craft too but dying easy must be the cost.

 

The fact is that scout burst does not discriminate it is equally effective against all classes, which is wrong. More over I have seen pilots effectively and consistently repeat this effect, it is not rare, and if the pilot is so skilled they will be able to adapt to the loss of it.

Now Hear this if nothing else. I do believe scouts depend on burst dps, in fact I think it is vital and loss of burst dps would diminish the class. However the burst is simply over cranked by a margin and simply needs a downward adjustment. It will be at perfect level when a flashfire can drop in on a Striker and burn away most of him but not all of him before he has a chance to break off. By break off I don't mean get away necessarily but simply that the flashfire needs to line up his shot again to finish the striker off. that would be Balanced.

 

There are some good points here, and I cannot say there isn't some validity, but I dispute one thing. Scouts can take out other scouts really quick, and gunships as well. But when I'm in my strike I VERY rarely get taken down that fast by a scout--even the best scouts. That's NOT to say that the best scouts (or indeed any scout) cannot get me down--just that it is exceedingly rare for it to happen so fast that I cannot react. Strike fighters do not have the maneuverability of a scout or the firepower of a gunship but they definitely have much higher survivability.

 

Gunships are supposed to be glass cannons--its the way to counterbalance the fact that 2 or 3 gunships parked and shooting at an objective while also covering each other are nearly impossible to dislodge. If there are 2 covering each other with a single dogfighter to run interference they are EXTREMELY hard to dislodge. Plus they have literally broken mechanics like the scope stop for barrel roll and uncharged ion cannon providing the full slow.

 

Considering all of these factors, this entire thread seems to be gunshippers being upset that they are not the only ones that can take out people in a split second. Scouts can do it to gunships, gunships can do it to scouts. CAn scouts take out gunships in a split second? Absolutely, with bypass or concentrated fire. But they are absolutely susceptible to being blown up just as quickly (and just as often) by gunships.

[Armonddd]

I consider finding, tracking and killing gunships to be great fun. Why do you want to take the fun out of my game?

 

Oh, I 100% agree with that. The game would get boring quickly if it weren't for that aspect of gunships.

 

The reason I sat they're bad and I don't like them is because their worst weapon is the one that doesn't ban a player from the game on hit. That's poor design and no fun to play against.

[Cordarn]

There are some good points here, and I cannot say there isn't some validity, but I dispute one thing. Scouts can take out other scouts really quick, and gunships as well. But when I'm in my strike I VERY rarely get taken down that fast by a scout--even the best scouts. That's NOT to say that the best scouts (or indeed any scout) cannot get me down--just that it is exceedingly rare for it to happen so fast that I cannot react. Strike fighters do not have the maneuverability of a scout or the firepower of a gunship but they definitely have much higher survivability.

 

Gunships are supposed to be glass cannons--its the way to counterbalance the fact that 2 or 3 gunships parked and shooting at an objective while also covering each other are nearly impossible to dislodge. If there are 2 covering each other with a single dogfighter to run interference they are EXTREMELY hard to dislodge. Plus they have literally broken mechanics like the scope stop for barrel roll and uncharged ion cannon providing the full slow.

 

Considering all of these factors, this entire thread seems to be gunshippers being upset that they are not the only ones that can take out people in a split second. Scouts can do it to gunships, gunships can do it to scouts. CAn scouts take out gunships in a split second? Absolutely, with bypass or concentrated fire. But they are absolutely susceptible to being blown up just as quickly (and just as often) by gunships.

 

Indeed, I have never once in my experience in a scout or fighting one ever gotten taken out as fast as he is saying bringing me to the conclusion of him over exaggerating greatly to try and drive home is point. The only way I think for that to happen with 5 second flat is for him to fly in a straight line and the scout clicked his weapons buff.

 

As for me ive specced entirely into evasion. I use the retro thrusters (that make me go backwards for a short time) and light cannons and get along well, but as I said Ive never actually blown someone up within 2-5 seconds of the engagement unless they were flying perfectly straight.

[JadedJasper]

Stike Fighters pop about as fast as Scouts if you use Bypass. Often faster, since they generally have less Evasion.

[Fractalsponge]

Stike Fighters pop about as fast as Scouts if you use Bypass. Often faster, since they generally have less Evasion.

 

I can crisp a strike fighter pretty damn quickly on my scout even without bypass. How frequently it happens depends on crits/positioning/etc. But the potential for a scout to kill a strike that quickly is definitely there.

[JacenKalo]

 

What you have to understand it's a needs of the many out weight the needs of the few case. If anything that is not vital to a class is making players quit GSF then it is in the interest of more people that it be adjusted..

 

I don't see how the gunship's ability to fairly consistently be able to 1 shot or very easily 2 shot an opponent is any different from the scout's not nearly as easy method of getting 1 shot or 2 shot kills. If you've ever played a scout you know that it requires a tremendous amount of primary weapon accuracy and maneuvering skill. The gunship is literally a sit still and shoot class.

 

Secondly, more people complain about Gunships and their railguns than people who complain about scouts. Because it's a skill-less task in comparison with a dogfight with any pilot worth their wings.

 

Thirdly, your argument about the needs of the many is a bad argument in favor of nerfing scouts, because if you polled the community, I'd guarantee more people would want a GS nerf before a scout nerf.

 

On a side note: I've NEVER heard of anyone complaining about a scout. They have less powerful weapons, and to kill anything with them you either need to have a bad opponent or be extremely skillful. I can't get into a match where i don't hear a gunship complaint.

[Acdril]

i fail to see why scouts would need a nerf at all.

i have played my scout since early access, and now with upgrades i can rip apart a gunships in seconds, they dont see me coming.

rocket pods, burst laser and concentrated fire or bypass, also i run with maxed evasion and talos to boost it more. so i can get close without you knowing.

on the other hand... if i am careless that same gunship will one shot me happily, should he be nerfed? no! i should pay attention and be expecting him, look at each player just before launch, know who the threats are and take the fight to them.

if we are going to nerf anybody, nerf strike fighters, they are not as stupid as gunships to just sit still whille i sneak up on them

 

toughen up people...

 

if you dont like dying, look away...