mr_sim Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 If I pay money, I can upgrade a desired ship faster than someone strictly playing. The daily/weekly rewards give ship req across your fleet which you can easily convert to fleet req and upgrade your desired ship faster. Maybe not pay to win, but certainly pay for a short term advantage. I get that things will even out eventually. Honestly Don't know why people are in such a hurry. What are you going to be playing towards in your maxed out ships anyway? One thing Grind is good for is it makes gameplay have more value most of the time, yes there are games that require too much grinding but GSF is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_sim Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 The one thing that has kept me from doing the double then splurge route is this.... I have no idea what the new zones will require. I could screw myself if Imax my scout by stripping my other ships, then the new zones are not scout friendly. Or GS or whatever. I dont know yet so I am Upgrading as I go and trying to make sure I save my CCs for what I want. Just because you pay, doesnt mean you win. Some people pay to bank. Others pay to max faster. You play to win. Scout might not be the best example as only way I can think of that they have disadvantage is if the whole map was one big maze because scout can't turn all that well under power, See: Scouts crashing into everything. but certainly you could see a map with limited sight lines that make a GS job really suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itkovian Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 If I pay money, I can upgrade a desired ship faster than someone strictly playing. The daily/weekly rewards give ship req across your fleet which you can easily convert to fleet req and upgrade your desired ship faster. Maybe not pay to win, but certainly pay for a short term advantage. I get that things will even out eventually. It's pay for convenience, and pay to skip the grind. This is standard fare for F2P games, and anyone who can't stomach that shouldn't be looking at F2P games in the first place. Seriously, they ALL have some mechanism to monetize speeding up the grind. If anything Req conversions isn't so bad since it only allows you to funnel reqs to a single ship, it doesn't grant you extra reqs. Either way, none of the microtransactions involved in GSF actually confer paying players anything that other players won't be able to get for free, and as such is not Pay To Win. Not that this will stop people from complaining, because of course EVERY major F2P game has its own P2W complaint threads. Some people jsut don't get F2P games are still meant to be for-profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEATHICIDE Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Coming out, as stated by the devs will be several new unlockable ships, along with entire new classes of ships, such as the bomber, able to lay minetraps and replenish friendly players' ammo as well as repair damage. There will also be several cartel market ships such as the two we have currently. Due to info text on certain abilities, it is also rather obvious that one of the other classes is some sort of ship that has a stealth cloaking ability. So right there at bare minimum, that is 2 more ships people are going to want to pay for, and we have no idea how many more variants of strikefighters, scouts and gunships will be up for grabs, but if it's a minimum of only 1 each, and assuming the unlock charge is still 5000FR, then right there over night players will want 25000FR just to have one each of the new ships to try out. Converting SR to FR just to spend it on your fav current ship is a double bad idea if you care about whats coming around the bend. (Especially if certain ship(s) get a nerf to their perceived OPness and all of a sudden you have to rely on pure skillzzzz and want to ditch said ship for something a little more durable in wake of your leetness being taken away) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 i know right... they're complaining about something that can be equated to "Pay to be on Par", but definitely not "to win" as that second scout doesn't even require CC to buy, it takes Fleet Req which you earn by playing the game, so nothing is being sold for real money that does not have an in-game acquirable equivalent... What is even more funny is when two people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about start slamming some other guy for not knowing what hes talking about, and its the same subject. GSF has pay 2 win, it may not be very detrimental but its still pay 2 win. there is no such thing as "Pay to be on par" lol , it might help you justify to yourself spending a bunch of money to make yourself better and you didn't get better but that doesn't make it a real thing. If they had Ultimate coms for sale on the cartel it would be considered p2w, this is the same thing. I don't really care about the p2w aspect of GSF, like I said its not really detrimental to the game. Gouging subscribers for more money I have a real problem with and GSF is full of all kinds of tricks to try to bleed more money from subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattycutts Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 What is even more funny is when two people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about start slamming some other guy for not knowing what hes talking about, and its the same subject. GSF has pay 2 win, it may not be very detrimental but its still pay 2 win. there is no such thing as "Pay to be on par" lol , it might help you justify to yourself spending a bunch of money to make yourself better and you didn't get better but that doesn't make it a real thing. If they had Ultimate coms for sale on the cartel it would be considered p2w, this is the same thing. I don't really care about the p2w aspect of GSF, like I said its not really detrimental to the game. Gouging subscribers for more money I have a real problem with and GSF is full of all kinds of tricks to try to bleed more money from subs. Ok, if Player A buys everything he can from cartel market, transfers all ship req's he can into fleet, then you have player B that uses zero money, zero cartel coins, can player B end up at a point where player A has no advantage? answer is they would be on par, only difference is Player A would have more ships (unless player B buys them off gtn for credits). so wheres the pay to win? pay to win refers to a player have a advantage of buying something that no one in game can get without real money and has superior abilities/stats etc. so from that player A and player B can end up with same. this is far from p2w. speed boosts dont count as p2w since EVERY f2p mmo has convience boosts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) couldn't have said it better... no P2W as 2 players can arrive at the same point by taking different routs to the goal... there's a big difference between buying convenience and buying raw power/superiority... Edited January 3, 2014 by Elly_Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itkovian Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 couldn't have said it better... no P2W as 2 players can arrive at the same point by taking different routs to the goal... there's a big difference between buying convenience and buying raw power/superiority... Correct. But people will still wail about P2W. That's how it is in every competitive F2P game out there. So long as people can pay for anything that is not purely cosmetic, people will complain. And even then they'll complain about how experience the cosmetics are. That's just the nature of the beast, with people not getting that F2P games depend on the grind-skipping microtransactions as one of their main revenue streams. Without these, we wouldn't have F2P games in the first place. But seriously, if you want P2W, look at WoT's Gold Ammo. THAT is pay to win: a concrete bonus to damage that only people who dish out money can get. GSF doesn't have ANYTHING like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Ok, if Player A buys everything he can from cartel market, transfers all ship req's he can into fleet, then you have player B that uses zero money, zero cartel coins, can player B end up at a point where player A has no advantage? answer is they would be on par, only difference is Player A would have more ships (unless player B buys them off gtn for credits). so wheres the pay to win? pay to win refers to a player have a advantage of buying something that no one in game can get without real money and has superior abilities/stats etc. so from that player A and player B can end up with same. this is far from p2w. speed boosts dont count as p2w since EVERY f2p mmo has convience boosts. I think the problem you guys are having is just inexperience. If Bioware started selling ultimate com gear on the cartel market people would have a fit. But it would be the same thing they are doing in GSF, people could still earn full com gear by doing dailies and raids. P2W doesn't just mean the only way to get good gear is to pay real money for it. it also means buying competitive gear with real money that you did not earn. And this is not a regular "speed boost", in end game pvp or pve there is no "speed boost" that will effect your gameplay, in gsf there is. Like I said before its not that big of a deal, it doesn't really break the game. It just drains money from bad players who hope they can buy their way to staying alive and its a money grab on subscribers who have nothing else they can do with ship req on maxed out ships. But its still p2w. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashal Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Question: This issue right now about the "Pay to Win" people. . . They are talking about people who max out ships quicker than others by using cartel coins to fleet req?? So let's fast forward to two people who have been playing 3 - 4 months. . . One using cartel coins, the other just playing a ship normally. Wouldn't they both have maxed ships at that point? Edited January 3, 2014 by Cashal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itkovian Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Question: This issue right now about the "Pay to Win" people. . . They are talking about people who max out ships quicker than others by using cartel coins to fleet req?? So let's fast forward to two people who have been playing 3 - 4 months. . . One using cartel coins, the other just playing a ship normally. Wouldn't they both have maxed ships at that point? Of course they would... because it's not P2W. It's pay for convenience, or reduce the grind. Completely standard fare in competitive F2P games. But like I said, people will always complain about this, and it doesn't matter. It's part of what makes competitive F2P games like GSF profitable, and it's not going to go away. You see the same things in games like MWO or WoT. Why is there a way to pay to speed up the grind? Because we're getting GSF for free, and the devs aren't a charity. This is how they recoup their development cost and can make a profit on their investment. If we had to pay to get the expansion, that'd be another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmors Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) It's not pay to win but pay to upgrade faster. You still have to actually play to upgrade your ships at a decent pace. Most good free to play games have that kind of factor in it where you can pay to lessen the grind. Edited January 3, 2014 by Philmors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rileysoph Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 This. In my opinion GSF has several issues, but Pay to Win is not one of them. Yes, fully upgraded ship vs. basic loadout ship leads (or may lead) to unbalanced matches, but there the problem lies in matchmaking, not in the ability to buy upgrades faster. Pay2UpgradeFaster = getting better stuff than others before they do and killing them with better stuff = pay2win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmors Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Pay2UpgradeFaster = getting better stuff than others before they do and killing them with better stuff = pay2win No it is not. Pay2Win is when you can buy end game stuff. You can't actually buy the upgrades for your ships, you still have to work for them. Now if you could actually buy the ship upgrades with cartel coins without even playing GSF then it would be Pay2Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Pay2UpgradeFaster = getting better stuff than others before they do and killing them with better stuff = pay2win by that logic someone who subscribed a year ago is paying to win compared to the person that subscribed today... so maybe every time a new person gets a sub we should reset everyone that played before them to zero, ya know in fairness... Edited January 3, 2014 by Elly_Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Starfighter is absolutely pay to win at least at the early goings. Cartel coins make it easier to upgrade your ships which make it easier to win. so lame You are 100% incorrect. Pay to win would be, cartel coins for req. Merely converting ship req into fleet req lets you upgrade one ship a bit faster than others, at the cost of that ship itself. I think this complaint is really silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattycutts Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I think the problem you guys are having is just inexperience. If Bioware started selling ultimate com gear on the cartel market people would have a fit. But it would be the same thing they are doing in GSF, people could still earn full com gear by doing dailies and raids. P2W doesn't just mean the only way to get good gear is to pay real money for it. it also means buying competitive gear with real money that you did not earn. And this is not a regular "speed boost", in end game pvp or pve there is no "speed boost" that will effect your gameplay, in gsf there is. Like I said before its not that big of a deal, it doesn't really break the game. It just drains money from bad players who hope they can buy their way to staying alive and its a money grab on subscribers who have nothing else they can do with ship req on maxed out ships. But its still p2w. inexperience? ive been playing mmo's for many years, some great some not so great and most of them ending up f2p. I can log in right now on a unmodified ship and kick the crap out some of the fully geared ships, getting those ship req's to fleet ones does not give u a unfair edge. this gsf is about skill 1st and anyone says different lacks the skill coz most that complain about it are poorly skilled pilots that I see in game most nights on my team and on opposition. if you really that adamant its pay to win leave the game you are one of very few people that thinks its p2w, 99% of us all inexperienced and wrong? move along either put up or shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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