Faction Balance through Faction Bonuses

[Brewski]

A common problem GSF seems to share with general PvP is faction imbalance. In general, one side will be stronger or more populous than the other, and as a result, will generally win more matches. As a result, that side will start to attract more players (everyone wants to be a winner) and the imbalance will get worse. This is not something unique to GSF, nor even to TOR, but happens in almost all two faction games with PvP.

 

On my server, The Shadowlands, it's the Republic that currently boasts the stronger GSF side. When queuing Republic, I get more wins and better requisition rewards than I do on the Empire side. The Republic is also the only side where I see training missions pitting a faction against itself. Once again, not unique to GSF or TOR, but still a problem that I would like to see addressed.

 

What I would propose is a bonus requisition system that is updated on a continuous basis. Based on the number of wins per faction (with same faction matches counting as a win for that faction) in the last hour, the faction currently at a disadvantage gets a bonus requisition multiplier. (Note: Does not affect credits or experience gains.) I don't have specific mathematical targets to hit, but I think adding a multiplier up to 150% for a faction at extreme disadvantage would be a fair option.

 

That way players who play both factions would have an incentive to play on the losing side. Losses would still get you roughly the same requisition levels as winning on the other side, and wins would give you a boost, allowing you to gear up faster and build strength on that side.

 

Over time, it would hopefully balance out faction differences by either getting the player level balanced, or at a minimum, allowing the disadvantaged faction faster gearing. Since everyone hits the same gear cap, there's no long term balance issue, so I can't really see a downside.

 

Thoughts?

[JPryde]

Thoughts?

How can an instanced scenario, where either 8vs8 or 12vs12 fight have any fanction imbalance?

 

If anything, the LOWER population will gain more matches in the same time, thus allowing that side to upgrade their ships faster. The larger population will spread on several matches against the same smaller group, so the same ammount of points is spread among a larger crowd.

 

To balance this issue, there is already ther training match, which allows Republic to fight Republic and Empire to fight Empire, if there is not enough enemies available.

 

So really I see absolutely no reason for any kind of bonus system as you suggested.

[Bleeters]

I'm sorry, but I don't really support a system designed to reward one faction for losing more often than the other. A lost game shouldn't be as rewarding as a win.

 

If one side is disadvantaged as such, it's because they're not playing as well as the other. That's not a gameplay mechanics issue.

[Lymain]

That way players who play both factions would have an incentive to play on the losing side. Losses would still get you roughly the same requisition levels as winning on the other side, and wins would give you a boost, allowing you to gear up faster and build strength on that side.

 

I like the thought of encouraging good pilots to fly for the weaker faction, but I don't like rewarding losing. It might work better if only the wins gave the boost, not the losses?

[Fractalwave]

On my server, The Shadowlands, it's the Republic that currently boasts the stronger GSF side. When queuing Republic, I get more wins and better requisition rewards than I do on the Empire side. The Republic is also the only side where I see training missions pitting a faction against itself. Once again, not unique to GSF or TOR, but still a problem that I would like to see addressed.

 

On my server, it was the Republic that was strong out of the gate. I've seen both Pub v Pub and Imp v Imp matches. So I don't think faction on faction is an issue. It's the matchmaking algorithm queuing up for whomever is available. The issues we see with matchmaking will reduce as more play, I think.

[Brewski]

How can an instanced scenario, where either 8vs8 or 12vs12 fight have any fanction imbalance?

Basically through the fact that the heavily populated and geared side pretty much owns the skies. Tonight, for example, the Empire could not win a match to save anything. Since the pubs had far more well skilled and geared pilots, they were being matched against far lesser skilled, geared and organized Empire teams. I played three matches, and despite the fact that I lead my team on nearly every category, we were owned by 900 points in two of the matches, and 600 in the third.

 

I don't deny the right of the pub teams to play as hard as possible. The req system rewards results more than effort, and they have every right to play to win. However, as a decently skilled/decently geared pilot who plays both factions I am faced with a choice. I can either:

1. Continue to play the losing side, scoring 500 reqs per match.
   
2. Switch to the winning faction and easily score 1500 reqs per match.
   

 

With that in mind, where is my motivation to stay? Since I leave and switch to the pub side, I widen the gap even more.

 

Now I know better matching will solve some of this, but the truth is, there will still be servers where one side clearly dominates. By providing an incentive for players in the losing faction you (in theory) spur people to play that side instead, equaling the playing field a bit.

 

It's also self balancing, as when the "losing" faction starts to win more more often, the bonus would lessen until it was gone.

 

In any event, I see a lot of new players on the Empire side throwing their hands up and quitting GSF because they can't catch a break, which is too bad, as it's a great expansion. I can hope that opening it to preferred players will solve a lot of this, but I'm thinking it will continue to be a problem, so I'm proposing an alternate solution.

[Brewski]

I like the thought of encouraging good pilots to fly for the weaker faction, but I don't like rewarding losing. It might work better if only the wins gave the boost, not the losses?

 

It would only work if wins ever happen, which on some nights they just don't. However, I agree it should equate to effort, but since you earn reqs for your own effort, it kind of balances out in my mind. If you do nothing, you get no bonus. (1.5 x 0 = 0) If you pull okay damage and manage a kill or an assist you get bumped up a bit for that. Still not to the levels the other side is getting, but it's at least something.

[GooseGrims]

i too play both factions and on the same server you do, i get about the same amount of wins on each side. some days i play my republic toon more, other days my empire toon. both of them have all 4 ships, both strikers and scouts (didnt sub soon enough for gunship and dont like the looks of the CC ships) none of them are fully upgraded but almost all 8 of them have all the tier 1 upgrades or better.

 

today i did notice alot of new players, when i was playing my empire toon about half of each team seemed pretty new and easy to pick off and i saw alot of self-destruct messages haha. and when i played my republic toon almost all the of first empire team i faced only had the first 2 ships, i assume most of these ppl were new cause we won 1000-9.

 

but there are also games on my republic toon where i see maliken and his buddies and they destroy us, i mean they spank us like a 4 year old in walmart. but i dont switch to my empire toon, i Q again and look for them, its facing ppl like that which is making me a better pilot each day. i just hope more ppl see it that way and dont get frustrated and quit.

 

i really miss the space pvp in SWG and this isnt the same, but its fun and brings back memories, esp the flashfire, reminds me of my old A-wing but ppl need to remember its pvp, you start late you are going to be at a disadvantage, but on a positive note the only disadvantage you will have really is learning how to control the ship while other ppl already know. some will pick it up faster than others but the upgrades arent that game breaking for a new pilot, i started a week late (been questing and doing ops more getting caught up on all i missed while i was gone) and i killed that kick*** player Maliken i mentioned ealier a few times, the ratio is probly 10.1 but i have killed them in an almost fully stock striker and scout. i play all my ships for atleast 2 full games everyday for the x2 and for upgrades.

 

all in all no i do not think there needs to be any added reward for a so called "imbalance" ppl just need to sit back and let the game and their piloting skill develop.

 

and brace yourself for jan and feb when we get a flood of new ppl haha,

[Sharee]

I like the thought of encouraging good pilots to fly for the weaker faction, but I don't like rewarding losing. It might work better if only the wins gave the boost, not the losses?

 

My personal best is 84000 damage with 26 kills. I consider myself a fairly good pilot. But there is a night-and-day difference in difficulty between flying my upgraded republic ships alongside excellent republic pilots, and switching to flying an imperial un-upgraded rustbucket flying alongside newbies.

 

It is extremely hard to get a win playing for the imp side, and hands-tied-behind-back easy to get a win for the rep side. Yet, i am more rewarded for flying the republic side!

 

I understand you not wanting to reward losing, but i think the reward given should take the above into consideration.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Sharee

[CKHelseth]

If anything, the LOWER population will gain more matches in the same time, thus allowing that side to upgrade their ships faster. The larger population will spread on several matches against the same smaller group, so the same ammount of points is spread among a larger crowd.

 

No, the larger faction will get matches against themselves as well. On BC the imps have less people playing. Nearly 2/3 of matches I play are pub vs. pub.

 

If there are less than 8 imps queued and 16 or more pubs queued, the pubs will play "training" matches repeatedly while the imps wait until they have 8.

[Lymain]

My personal best is 84000 damage with 26 kills. I consider myself a fairly good pilot. But there is a night-and-day difference in difficulty between flying my upgraded republic ships alongside excellent republic pilots, and switching to flying an imperial un-upgraded rustbucket flying alongside newbies.

 

It is extremely hard to get a win playing for the imp side, and hands-tied-behind-back easy to get a win for the rep side. Yet, i am more rewarded for flying the republic side!

 

I understand you not wanting to reward losing, but i think the reward given should take the above into consideration.

 

The issue is that just getting more people flying for the Imperials won't really do much to make the games more competitive. However, if you get the best Republic pilots playing their Imperial characters, the matches could be much more interesting.

 

It would be pretty terrible if the mentality on the Imperial side was basically, "Welp, we're going to lose (so might as well not even try to win), but at least we're getting extra req!" I'd rather see something like, "Ohhhh, those Republic aces are on our team now (or at least we don't see them on the Republic side), so we have a chance! Let's win this one!!!"

Edited December 26, 2013 by Lymain

[Brewski]

The issue is that just getting more people flying for the Imperials won't really do much to make the games more competitive. However, if you get the best Republic pilots playing their Imperial characters, the matches could be much more interesting.

 

It would be pretty terrible if the mentality on the Imperial side was basically, "Welp, we're going to lose (so might as well not even try to win), but at least we're getting extra req!" I'd rather see something like, "Ohhhh, those Republic aces are on our team now (or at least we don't see them on the Republic side), so we have a chance! Let's win this one!!!"

 

Actually, that's the point. To get players on the pub side to notice the bonus and get them to swap to their Empire alts so they can level them up faster. At this point, my Emp pilot is at about half the progression my pub pilot is for two reason. One, the empire loses way more matches than the pubs, and losses reward you with half the reqs. Two, since getting spanked every time the queue pops gets old quick, who wants to play past the daily?

 

Not that there aren't great Empire pilots out there, but they seem to play primarily as premades, meaning getting on their teams is a rare occurrence. Playing against them on the pub side can lead to some great matches. However, solo queuing on the emp side right now is pretty horrible. I played my requisite two matches today, and in one i was paired with 6 players with only two ships, and one with three. We scored 5 points, with 4 of them being my kills, while almost every player on their team had double digit kills. Once I was identified as the only experienced pilot on my team, I was pretty much hunted down the second I left the spawn zone.

 

How do you convince the Empire players in that match that there's any point in playing GSF?

 

As I stated (and a few others mentioned as well) matching will improve after GSF opens to preferred players in a few weeks. However, it still won't solve the gear gap that's widening every day.

 

Not that my solution has to be the one implemented. However, I do think there needs to be one of some kind to help the servers where the gap is widening.

[mr_sim]

Actually Bioware has been releasing Server PvP stats, one interpretation is that after a certain minimum point, the PvP population of on faction has an inverse relationship to the overall strength of the faction. Which actaully makes sense, You have a higher concentration of Veterans compounded by the fact that only PvP veterans are likely to bother to change factions.

 

PvP population balance is best observed by how many Simulated{faction vs itself) battles a faction has.

 

There is a balancing factor however, more simulated battles = more over number of PvP ques. Meaning more Training to non veteran players. My server(Jedi Covenant) seems to be seeing this happening at the moment, basically the massive influx of F2P joiners are now hitting their veteran stride and the larger PvP population Imp side is recovering ground on the other side, and we are much closer to neutral then we were.