Imagine if SWTOR launched with all of this...

[Lium]

• Space Combat (PvE)
  
• Space PvP (GS)
  
• Warzones
  
• Arenas
  
• Flashpoints (SM and HM)
  
• Story Mode, Hard Mode, and Nightmare Mode Operations
  
• Heroic Quests
  
• All content fully voiced
  
• Engaging quests that are cinematic
  
• Iconic classes and class stories
  
• Dailies
  
• Personal starship (like housing)
  
• Social Points system
  
• Datacrons
  
• Achievements and Codex entries
  
• Fully customizable gear (keep your same look for as long as you want it)
  
• Legacy System
  
• Collections
  
• Companions (including romance options and approval/disapproval system)
  
• Reputations
  
• Moral alignment (LS, DS, or neutral)
  
• Cool ground mounts
  

 

All wrapped up in an Old Republic era feel. Holy crap...this game has a LOT going on. I wonder if that would have been enough to stave off the naysayers if they delayed launch for another year or two to get it ALL IN. Probably not. But I feel like the game as it is now is closer to the vision of what the devs always meant it to be.

[Callaron]

Don't forget the groupfinder - another thing that was missing at the launch.

Not to mention all the QoL improvements they've made since then.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Callaron

[Sarfux]

Yap. I can imagine. But we have to stop talking about "should have had this at launch". Yes, it SHOULD have but it didn't. Just be glad it is all coming into the game now and it is growing.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day. It takes years. But when it is grown and established, THEN you will see the height of it's power

[GalacticKegger]

Don't forget the customizable UI! The original (today's default) was all we had. Personally it's December 2013, not December 2011. Good or bad I could not care less about what happened 2 years ago. It's always been a fun game, it's just a lot tighter, more robust and expansive now. Naysayers would have still found stuff to naysay about ... it's simply what they do. Edited December 5, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[Frostycore]

And you'd blow through all the content in 3 months, cancel your sub and not look back..

 

There's a reason they stage all this, so you keep your sub and keep coming back..

[somejerk]

And you'd blow through all the content in 3 months, cancel your sub and not look back..

 

There's a reason they stage all this, so you keep your sub and keep coming back..

 

Yeah and now they blow through it in a week.

[GalacticKegger]

And you'd blow through all the content in 3 months, cancel your sub and not look back..

 

There's a reason they stage all this, so you keep your sub and keep coming back..

Depends on one's definition of "all" imho. I have 8 level 55s and still haven't seen everything in the game. (Don't have a toon with all the datacrons either.) Other than playing 8 hours every day, the only way I see someone blowing through to uberdom in 3 months is by popping XP boosts like breath mints and taking the quest path of least resistance to get there.

 

That's like taking a drive in the country at 140mph and complaining there's nothing to see. If the main road were all there was then TOR would have disintegrated a long time ago. Games die quickly for players who do nothing but speed level; and they may well be better served reconsidering their choice of playing MMORPGs as a source of entertainment.

Edited December 5, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[Erasimus]

Personally I'm not sure how much difference it would have made. I just came back after a long absence and things have improved, but only incrementally and not in any real major way.

 

The game still has the best leveling experience of any of the MMOs I've played and still has less to do at end game than any of the other MMOs I've played and still play.

 

Space PvP or PvE isn't a big attraction for me or for many of the people I know that quit and still haven't come back. I know it is a big thing for the SWG fans and maybe Star Wars fans in general. But a lot of people are probably like myself. I've seen all the movies, in fact I'm more than old enough so I watched them when the were released But I'm not a "fan" and the game just being Star Wars is not enough.

 

IMO if the new content doesn't attract non-fans then, while it is a good thing for the SWG crew, it probably won't really help in the long run.

[Infernixx]

People forget that Rome is not built in a day.

[TheNahash]

People forget that Rome is not built in a day.

 

and even if it were, people would still complain

[Infernixx]

and even if it were, people would still complain

 

Undoubtedly so.

 

People forget that it took WoW late into its second expansion before creating a Group Finder and to the end of its third expansion to get a Group Finder for Raid groups.

[Rankyn]

if they delayed launch for another year or two to get it ALL IN.

There comes a point in game development when you absolutely have to launch because you aren't making any money.

Yes, you could hold your game back for another year or two to add more stuff, but then you'll have to hold it back even longer as you add more features that other games have added while you delayed just to stay competitive.

It's a never ending cycle and that's why they have to decide what features will be in at launch and which ones they'll continue working on post-launch.

 

Something to keep in mind when people complain about things that SWTOR doesn't (or didn't) have that other games do is that they often forget that those other games didn't have them at launch either.

[Nempo]

I was in alpha, closed beta, and open beta. The changes in just that time frame leading up to release made me sad...

 

I Miss beign able to kill companions (I would kill Quinn every...single...time) and I missed having the option for different companions (Praven for JK, Jaxxo for Trooper...to name 2 well known characters). I also miss the classes not being mirrors across the factions (they were more like opposites).

 

The game also used to be a whole lot more punishing. In closed beta, people would get to Voss and just start crying as soloing was so hard on Voss. I used to get amazed responses when people would see my Shadow soloing on Voss and H4's on every planet used to be just that...you needed 4 people to have a chance at it and those 4 people better have been a properly balanced group of tank/heal/2dps. The game was designed to actually try and kill you, by the time act 2 came you had to know how to stun/interrupt/jockey mobs. To see the game the way it is now where you can ignore your armor for 10 levels and still roll over content...it is kinda sad.

[TheNahash]

Undoubtedly so.

 

People forget that it took WoW late into its second expansion before creating a Group Finder and to the end of its third expansion to get a Group Finder for Raid groups.

 

Wow doesn't count.

Before WoW came along people were willing to accept certain shortcomings. After WoW made MMOs mainstream, anything that's released must have 10 years worth of content on Day 1, otherwise "it's crap".

 

PS: And no, I'm not saying WoW was the first MMO. But it was the first one that made it past the geeks and the warcraft nerd crowd.

[Sarfux]

People forget that Rome is not built in a day.

That's what I say and have said since alpha and beta on these forums. Don't copy me please Inferixx. But I am flattered *blushes*

 

I know it's not "my saying" or I didn't invent it. But I hope it wasn't copied from me.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Sarfux

[TravelersWay]

People forget that Rome is not built in a day.

 

How true. If they tried to launch with everything (and of course make it bug free), we would still be begging BioWare for a release date for this game. People need to realize that MMOs are ever evolving entities. What may be "standard" or "needed" at launch for one may not actually need to be a priority for another. However, if it is a feature that can improve the game, you can be sure it will be in there at some point. MMOs are designed to be played for years, and thus improvements can be spaced over that period of time.

 

The game also used to be a whole lot more punishing. In closed beta, people would get to Voss and just start crying as soloing was so hard on Voss. I used to get amazed responses when people would see my Shadow soloing on Voss and H4's on every planet used to be just that...you needed 4 people to have a chance at it and those 4 people better have been a properly balanced group of tank/heal/2dps. The game was designed to actually try and kill you, by the time act 2 came you had to know how to stun/interrupt/jockey mobs. To see the game the way it is now where you can ignore your armor for 10 levels and still roll over content...it is kinda sad.

 

Not really. The age of the catasser is over; the era of the grinder has passed, the days of the PKer have ended. I did the hardcore gaming thing for the first half of my 40+ years. I, for one (and actually for quite a few others I know and play with) am glad that those days are behind us and the age of the casual FUN gaming industry is in full throttle.

Edited December 5, 2013 by TravelersWay

[Infernixx]

That's what I say and have said since alpha and beta on these forums. Don't copy me please Inferixx. But I am flattered *blushes*

 

I know it's not "my saying" or I didn't invent it. But I hope it wasn't copied from me.

 

You needn't worry, the saying is fairly well known and used to describe situations like this. No copying intended.

[Sarfux]

You needn't worry, the saying is fairly well known and used to describe situations like this. No copying intended.

 

Very fine. Glad we talked about it Infernixx You know what I mean by it then

[Infernixx]

Very fine. Glad we talked about it Infernixx You know what I mean by it then

 

Oh, that I do. You can always tell the MMOs that are having trouble as they begin to throw everything they have at their players. Free characters, free levels, free gifts, just please please come back and play our game...

 

The ones that do well are those that are 'steady' in their releasing of new content and steady at improving existing content.

 

Example: For those who didn't know, the Developers added in a good bit of new music to established content. No mention of it, but there it is. Also, my load times are considerably quicker than what they were before the patch. I don't know if it's something they did, but I haven't changed a thing on my end this week.

 

Do they have issues still? Oh sure. Are they game-breaking? Nah. So, I'm good with them being steady at fixing and releasing new stuff. That's the sign of a long-term plan and the sign of a healthy company.

[Pietrastor]

I was in alpha, closed beta, and open beta. The changes in just that time frame leading up to release made me sad...

 

I Miss beign able to kill companions (I would kill Quinn every...single...time) and I missed having the option for different companions (Praven for JK, Jaxxo for Trooper...to name 2 well known characters). I also miss the classes not being mirrors across the factions (they were more like opposites).

 

The game also used to be a whole lot more punishing. In closed beta, people would get to Voss and just start crying as soloing was so hard on Voss. I used to get amazed responses when people would see my Shadow soloing on Voss and H4's on every planet used to be just that...you needed 4 people to have a chance at it and those 4 people better have been a properly balanced group of tank/heal/2dps. The game was designed to actually try and kill you, by the time act 2 came you had to know how to stun/interrupt/jockey mobs. To see the game the way it is now where you can ignore your armor for 10 levels and still roll over content...it is kinda sad.

How were Coruscant/Dromund like when they were still main hubs in alpha/beta before fleets got created?

[Sarfux]

Oh, that I do. You can always tell the MMOs that are having trouble as they begin to throw everything they have at their players. Free characters, free levels, free gifts, just please please come back and play our game...

 

The ones that do well are those that are 'steady' in their releasing of new content and steady at improving existing content.

 

Example: For those who didn't know, the Developers added in a good bit of new music to established content. No mention of it, but there it is. Also, my load times are considerably quicker than what they were before the patch. I don't know if it's something they did, but I haven't changed a thing on my end this week.

 

Do they have issues still? Oh sure. Are they game-breaking? Nah. So, I'm good with them being steady at fixing and releasing new stuff. That's the sign of a long-term plan and the sign of a healthy company.

 

Well said.

[DarthDymond]

I agree with others here that there's no constructive point in "what-could-have-been"ing, they pushed this out for a Christmas release and have admitted that they underestimated how fast MMO players tend to burn through content (which baffles me to this day, seems like basic market research on that should have been a basic part of development). But if we're going Monday-Morning Quarterback it anyway for fun:

 

* The only features this game really should have launched with but didn't were [in priority order]: the Group Finder, UI Customization, and a finished Karagga's Palace Op (with both KP and Eternity Vault Ops having Hard Modes and Nightmare Modes that were significantly more challenging than they actually were).

 

*Explosive Conquest should have been released with Story Mode and Hard Mode about two months sooner than it was, with its Nightmare Mode released a couple months afterwards.

 

*Once they realized Open-World PVP on Ilum was a complete bust, they should have made it a priority and pushed out an attempt at fixing/replacing it (and really the Ilum problem and a fix should have been handled through Beta) OR they should have made sure Ranked PVP was ready within a month of launch (Update 1.1 came out less than a month after launch).

 

After that, the steady flow of content we got was pretty darn good, which is what you need to keep an MMO moving forward. They should have sprinkled in two more Warzones though, so that we didn't have that ridiculous 11-month gap between Ancient Hypergate and the Arenas.

 

No matter how good the game was, a portion of the internet would still have been gleefully bashing the game, (haters and trolls are real, though not everyone who has problems with a game is one,) and subscription numbers would have still have spiked at the beginning and dropped off some in the first few months (that's just the nature of Subscription games and MMO gamer turnover).

 

BUT the general gamer population's impression would not have been "TOR = TORtanic" if it hadn't been for the perception that the game was seriously lacking End Game content and some absolutely basic MMO features like Group Finder and UI Customization (or at least allowing add-ons for the latter).

 

The most vocal commentators, professional and amateur, and the players who were already integrated into the wider MMO community were the ones who felt the lack of these features/content the most, since they were the ones who had come to expect them in an MMO. This game brought in a lot of new BioWare, KotOR and Star Wars fans into the MMO sphere, but specifically because they were new to the genre they weren't the ones positioned to shape public opinion about it.

 

I enjoy the hell out of this game, and have been a sub since launch, so I'm glad to see that its found its niche and is doing well, even if it didn't end up being the "WoW-killer" it was being hyped as pre-launch.

Edited December 5, 2013 by DarthDymond

[keysmachine]

topics like this amuse me.

 

you could have 1000's of hours of content. SOMEBODY will blow through it in the least amount of time and then promptly gather his locust horde and invade the general forums claiming the game sucks and there's nothing to do.

 

not a single MMO is immune to this. which is why even the allmighty WILDSTAR will fall flat on its face. people will get over the shiny new mmo feeling burn through content arrive at the end of said content in 4 days and then say.. now what.

 

happens every. single. time.

[JimG]

MMOs are intended to be a constantly developing and updated thing. They are never in a final state. Reasonable people should have expected that at launch.

[Bugattiboy]

So what you're saying is imagine if EA waited an extra 2 years and launched it with the features and polish expected of them and a MMO?