Confusing Weapon damage Tooltips

[Phantasym]

Am I the only one confused by weapon damage tool tips?

 

For example, Light Laser Cannon says its favored by pilots who like to fight at close range, twin linked for high damage and increased power consumption, but damage output drops drastically with distance.

 

Quad Laser Cannon says "Gold Standard of laser cannon design, fires alternating pairs of bolts from 4 cannon barrels dealing considerably more damage then standard lasers while maintaining formidable accuracy and rage of fire, its biggest downside is power consumption."

 

If you look at the stats of those though The range for close range for both of those as well as regular laser cannons if 500m, the mid range is 3000m and the only difference is light has a max range of 4000m and the others have 5000m. In all cases it would seem the light would deal more damage its damage is considerable higher over quad at short range, 975 vs 848, at mid its 770 vs 787 and short is 624 vs 638 which seems very little of the drop off at longer range it describes . It also has higher tracking accuracy and firing arc then regular and a considerable higher rate of fire 180 RPMS vs 150 RPMS.

 

Maybe I don't understand and interpret the numbers correctly since I never see numbers in higher then 200-300 when shooting another ship with anything but a rail gun. Wouldn't even at the longer range the 624 at 180 RPMS out damage the 638 at 150 RPMS, or does the damage numbers already calculate in the rate of fire or something?

 

It is very confusing to compare weapons and figure out what to use, is the quad shooting 4 bolts instead of 2 bolts so its higher damage even at lower rate of fire, or does the rate of fire greatly increase the damage as you would expect.

 

Please someone from Bioware clarify what these tooltip numbers mean and how to interpret them.

[Itkovian]

There are a lot of very crunchy numbers when you look at the detailed tooltips for weapons.

 

Range/Damage/Accuracy all play significant roles, as do the various upgrades these weapons can gain.

 

Concerning quads, their main advantage is the longer range, coupled with a good accuracy I believe.

 

Either way, there is a lot of variety with the different weapons, and there's no real "best" weapon.

[Lurtzello]

I think you have misinterpreted something: the 975 vs 848, 770 vs 787 and 624 vs 638 represent DPS, not damage per shot. In fact, unless I've misread them, in the tooltips we are never given the damage per shot, just the overall DPS. Edited December 4, 2013 by Lurtzello

[Vandicus]

I think you have misinterpreted something: the 975 vs 848, 770 vs 787 and 624 vs 638 represent DPS, not damage per shot. In fact, unless I've misread them, in the tooltips we are never given the damage per shot, just the overall DPS.

 

^

 

It should also be noted that quad laser cannons offer an additional 1km of range.

[IIMaliceII]

Weapon Arcs and accuracy drop off play a part as well. I have found for turning battles Rapid Fire Lasers (larger arc and lower accuracy drop of then Light Lasers) hit more than Light Lasers. So for a fast turning in close battle Rapid Fire will give you more DPS.

[Phantasym]

I am not really looking for a best weapon per say, I understand they all have different play styles.

What I am looking for us a way to compare the real amounts of damage you can expect them to do and the benefits and negatives of them.

 

The tool tip and the damage you see are no where near the same while firing on any ship. The rate of fire makes it difficult for me to tell if I am getting increase damage for the range penalty on one weapon or not.

 

Do weapons that fire slower deal bigger burst damage, logic says yes, like heavy laser on star fighter vs the standard but the tool tips seem to indicate the opposite.

 

Also it looks like all weapons regardless of the range of a laser, have the same 500m for short range, Wouldn't you expect a heavy range laser to have say a short range of 1000m instead of 500 and a medium that's bigger as well. From the charts on dulfy which is all I can view while at work, they all have the exact same short range and medium range and only max range changes, but all have different damages.

 

Rate of fire is the most confusing thing of all if they all deal very similar damage then if you can fire off 5 bolts in a second vs 2 in a second you will deal a ton more damage. It looks like the one with the slowest rate of fire (Burst) also has the lowest damage rate at its 4000m max much lower then even light with that same range, or other guns that can shoot farther and faster.

 

What I would expect to see would be for example, Light laser cannon deals 150 damage at max range per bolt, fires x bolts per second or per minute. it deals 350 dmg per bolt at super close range and same rate of fire. Heavy laser has half that rate of fire but can deal say 400 damage at close range and 310 at long range per bolt.

 

That would let me see that heavy laser deals less damage per second at close range then the short range light laser, but the same or more at long range plus has a longer max range and would be intuitive to read.

[Phantasym]

I think you have misinterpreted something: the 975 vs 848, 770 vs 787 and 624 vs 638 represent DPS, not damage per shot. In fact, unless I've misread them, in the tooltips we are never given the damage per shot, just the overall DPS.

 

That clarify's things somewhat. It means that the rate of fire is already taken into account. I am not sure why they list rate of fire separately if its already included as part of DPS.

 

I understand how the fire arc and tracking accuracy work. Though I am still disturbed by the fact that even longer range weapons have the same short and medium range. I would say over 95% of battles take place outside of 500m.

[AlrikFassbauer]

There are a lot of very crunchy numbers when you look at the detailed tooltips for weapons.

 

Problem is : I have a light Dyscalculia. Meaning : I can't make up much out of it. I need to be able to compare it. Like with ground character gear.

[Uber_the_Goober]

I think you have misinterpreted something: the 975 vs 848, 770 vs 787 and 624 vs 638 represent DPS, not damage per shot. In fact, unless I've misread them, in the tooltips we are never given the damage per shot, just the overall DPS.

 

Do you mean to actually say damage per SECOND? If I just sat and blasted an unmoving enemy, I'd do 975 damage points each second to them? Really?

 

...

 

My accuracy must be hella bad...

[Vandicus]

Do you mean to actually say damage per SECOND? If I just sat and blasted an unmoving enemy, I'd do 975 damage points each second to them? Really?

 

...

 

My accuracy must be hella bad...

 

Don't feel bad. If you look at the scoreboard accuracy of 30% and higher is really good.

[Hitomo_x]

What I would expect to see would be for example, [...].

 

That would let me see that heavy laser deals less damage per second at close range then the short range light laser, but the same or more at long range plus has a longer max range and would be intuitive to read.

 

you hover the mouse over the items on the left side of the Hangar where all the components are grouped in categories and you get all these stats ... I had no Problem making the informed decision you are looking for

[Itkovian]

That clarify's things somewhat. It means that the rate of fire is already taken into account. I am not sure why they list rate of fire separately if its already included as part of DPS.

 

I understand how the fire arc and tracking accuracy work. Though I am still disturbed by the fact that even longer range weapons have the same short and medium range. I would say over 95% of battles take place outside of 500m.

 

Rate of fire is very important: a weapon with a high refire rate does less damage per hit, BUT is much more forgiving when you miss. Try the Rapid-Fire Laser, then the burst laser, you'll see there's a huge difference and handling.

 

As for that ranges, I'm not sure what the problem is. Short range is short, yes, but you'll find that the extra 1km (or 2, with the heavy laser) makes quite a difference.

[Yorumi]

I think what's confusing is that the default layouts on the ships seem to be by far the superior weapons. The rapid-fire and light laser cannons seem to be the only good weapons. Everything else seems inferior with the ion cannon being situationally useful.

 

For example the Quad trades more power draw, smaller firing arc, more tracking accuracy loss and nearly half the rate of fire of the rapid. It gains only a very tiny dps boost at med and long range which is most likely offset by the tracking accuracy and the fact that it's much harder to hit a smaller target with a slow firing weapon(ie a target farther away).

[Itkovian]

I think what's confusing is that the default layouts on the ships seem to be by far the superior weapons. The rapid-fire and light laser cannons seem to be the only good weapons. Everything else seems inferior with the ion cannon being situationally useful.

 

For example the Quad trades more power draw, smaller firing arc, more tracking accuracy loss and nearly half the rate of fire of the rapid. It gains only a very tiny dps boost at med and long range which is most likely offset by the tracking accuracy and the fact that it's much harder to hit a smaller target with a slow firing weapon(ie a target farther away).

 

I don't know about that, that extra KM makes a big difference... and doesn't the accuracy scale better for the Quad at long ranges?

 

And actually, hitting targets at longer range is EASIER not harder. There's less angular displacement at longer range, so it's easier to keep the cursor steady on the leading crosshairs.

[Vandicus]

I think what's confusing is that the default layouts on the ships seem to be by far the superior weapons. The rapid-fire and light laser cannons seem to be the only good weapons. Everything else seems inferior with the ion cannon being situationally useful.

 

For example the Quad trades more power draw, smaller firing arc, more tracking accuracy loss and nearly half the rate of fire of the rapid. It gains only a very tiny dps boost at med and long range which is most likely offset by the tracking accuracy and the fact that it's much harder to hit a smaller target with a slow firing weapon(ie a target farther away).

 

An extra 1km of range is, again, nothing to sneeze at. That means you've effectively engaged the enemy 25% longer than he has you, assuming you both make a full pass on each other.

 

On a strike fighter being able to get a range just shy of 7km is hilarious against scouts who attempt to make head-to-head passes.

[Lurtzello]

Do you mean to actually say damage per SECOND? If I just sat and blasted an unmoving enemy, I'd do 975 damage points each second to them? Really?

 

...

 

My accuracy must be hella bad...

 

Well, the tooltips say "DPS" and I interpreted it as Damage per Second, maybe it is Damage per Semester

Anyway, that damage doesn't take into account how much is absorbed by the enemy's armor.

[Phantasym]

you hover the mouse over the items on the left side of the Hangar where all the components are grouped in categories and you get all these stats ... I had no Problem making the informed decision you are looking for

 

I know how to find the tool tips, that's where I got the numbers from, its interpreting them correctly to evaluate the positive and negative of each weapon that is the issue.

[Phantasym]

Well, the tooltips say "DPS" and I interpreted it as Damage per Second, maybe it is Damage per Semester

Anyway, that damage doesn't take into account how much is absorbed by the enemy's armor.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but don't most ships start out with 5% or 0% damage reduction, wouldn't that mean in general you should see close to 900 damage per second at close range. I don't think I have ever seen that kind of damage even with several hits in a row.

[Yorumi]

An extra 1km of range is, again, nothing to sneeze at. That means you've effectively engaged the enemy 25% longer than he has you, assuming you both make a full pass on each other.

 

On a strike fighter being able to get a range just shy of 7km is hilarious against scouts who attempt to make head-to-head passes.

 

I did forget about the extra max range. But that rate of fire is still painfully slow on anything not dumb enough to make a head on pass. I'm not writing anything off right away, not without more testing, it's just weird that with every other part I can understand where they're useful. However, with guns it's just hard to see why I'd want to trade that much firing rate for a small range boost. I suppose it might make more sense when we have bombers so there's more heavy targets to take down.

[Phantasym]

Rate of fire is very important: a weapon with a high refire rate does less damage per hit, BUT is much more forgiving when you miss. Try the Rapid-Fire Laser, then the burst laser, you'll see there's a huge difference and handling.

 

As for that ranges, I'm not sure what the problem is. Short range is short, yes, but you'll find that the extra 1km (or 2, with the heavy laser) makes quite a difference.

 

I have tried the light lasers the quad laser and the heavy laser and I can see the difference in how quickly they fire. What is hard to figure out is if by firing slower you are still dealing similar damage over the same time period, which the charts and tool tips seem to indicate should be similar within 100 dps of each other if you are accurate. For this to me true, I would expect to see hits twice as hard with those slower firing weapons when you hit but didn't notice that happening.

 

As far as the range thing, I don't disagree that 1k extra range is nothing to laugh at being able to engage sooner is a good advantage. My objection is that the "long range" laser has the same fall off as the short range one. They describe the short range weapons are falling off quickly so you would expect to see something like 500m short range, 2500m medium and 4000m max. The weapons described as having better range and accuracy over distance I would expect the short range high damage to be 0-1000m, and then say medium to be up to 4000m and long to be up to 6000m while the mid range weapon might have similar stats to current with the 3000m mid range and 5000m max. regardless of using short or long range weapon right now if you want to be doing the most efficient damage that weapon can do you have to be firing at what is the basically melee range.

[Hitomo_x]

dont be so theoretical ...

 

maybe you noticed the extreme dynamic nature of the space.fights

 

there are shild zones, there are different damge to shields and hull,

there are Special skills People activate just in situations they got under fire

 

what matters is the range of the weapon wich is often tied to the fire rate / reload Speed

 

everything else, really is there to Balance These different range weapons out against

each other and different ship.roles

 

fast ship -> short range / high / fire rate / high energy consumption for weapons

 

slow ship -> Long range / slow fire rate / high energy consupmtion for engines

 

thats the xtremes and you can adjust your ship between those to as you see fit

inside the limitations of the ships.role

 

when you look at the different lasercannons Keep the values for Shooting.angle and tracking.speed and

precision reduction in mind ... next to the distance they matter the most when it Comes to

Supporting your playstyle

 

regards

[Phantasym]

If my play style and skill was more conductive to high burst damage, slow fire but accurate shots, say still dog fighting in a scout or fighter but instead of holding down the trigger and laying down fire and lots of small hits to hit once every 3-5 seconds with a higher damage attack which weapon would I choose?

 

It looks like from tool tips I should still pick the light laser which are highest damage instead of say heavy laser as long as I can stay under 3000m

[Vandicus]

If my play style and skill was more conductive to high burst damage, slow fire but accurate shots, say still dog fighting in a scout or fighter but instead of holding down the trigger and laying down fire and lots of small hits to hit once every 3-5 seconds with a higher damage attack which weapon would I choose?

 

It looks like from tool tips I should still pick the light laser which are highest damage instead of say heavy laser as long as I can stay under 3000m

 

Lighter lasers do less damage per hit. They do more dps in closer ranges though.

 

DPS is not damage per shot, but damage per second(and of course does not factor in enemy defenses/evasion etc.)

[renegadeimp]

You dont pick the bad weapon sets for the weapons. You pick them for the inherent skill bonuses they give when you go into the skill trees.