Sith Empire vs Galactic Empire

[Wolfninjajedi]

Except, the Death Star is the worst super-weapon to bring to a blaster fight. It either takes out a planet, or a Single Capital Ship with its primary weapon. It has almost no effectiveness in an overall battle. And the first Death Star had an easily exploitable weakness, the 2nd one was never fully completed, and the third one was destroyed as well. It's rather a sad track record.

 

Also, the Galactic Empire only had the one super-weapon. The Imperial Remnant under Reborn Emperor Palpatine would have several other ones. And they all pretty much did the same thing the Death Star did only in a different way. The Sith Empire had more Useful Super-Weapons that could be employed against fleets, starships in hyperspace or entire planets. They had a larger range of options and is overall more effective in a war.

 

I believe it was the Gauntlet that could destroy any ship while it was in hyperspace. What good is the GE Navy when it tries to travel to the warzone only to be annihilated before it even gets there? And if we're ignoring the whole Malgus Betrayal and other dissidents, then the Sith Empire does have does have the Stealth Armada, the Foundry, and the Dread Masters along with a cargo ship full of HK-51 droids.

 

The GE has like 10x greater numbers, but 9/10ths of that is complete fodder. That alone can end up being torn apart by just the Dread Masters. Even if you removed Super Weapons, the sheer number of Sith tip the scales invariably in the Sith Empire's favor. Also, the GE has a massive flaw in that the effectiveness of its military is almost entirely supported by Palpatine's Battle Meditation. If he is interrupted, killed, or disabled from supporting his forces across the galaxy, they all turn into a bunch of worthless chumps who ended up being spanked to high-heaven by the Rebels who were still outnumbered 6-1.

 

When Vitiate was killed, the SE military didn't collapse. It wasn't affected at all. The only ones who were were the Emperor's Children and the Hand who'd then proceed to prepare a new vessel for the Emperor's essence. The Dark Council and the Ministers were unaffected and maintained control over their military forces.

 

How does the Death Star not have any impact on a space battle? The 2nd one took out two capital ships within minutes. Yeah...except the 1st Death Star could only be destroyed by those who are able to use The Force to actually know where to fire torpedos.

 

At the end of it all the SE don't have ships like X-wings that can do what they did nor have I seen that the Supermacy fighters have torpedos. They could use their bombers sure, but I haven't seen anything impressive from either their bombers or their fighters that could actually do damage unlike the X-wing which is vastly superior.

 

You're right the 2nd one was never completed, but you know what else? Palpatine wanted the RA to get their hands on the plans, it was the only reason they were even able to take it down anyway...the same with the 1st one. Even then the 2nd DS was only destroyed because the Imperial Fleet went all outta wack, when before they were destroying the Rebel fleet.

 

Actually no, the Imperial Remnant wasn't the Galactic Empire it was a seperate faction. The Imperial Remnant was formed in 12 ABY, which was the same time the Galactic Empire dissolved. So yes, the Galactic Empire would still have the super weapons that it had later on.

 

9/10ths of the Galatic Empire's military being fodder?....Really? They were only supported by Palpatine during the Battle of Endor and just in the space battle, not all around the galaxy.

 

Shockingly...Stormtroopers and the GE military are actually effective! Otherwise throughout the whole GCW they wouldn't have won any battles and the GE wouldn't waste resources of 2 years of training Stormtroopers. , they even won battles when Luke and co were around.

 

Also I don't think we're including named or big characters in this, so Dread Masters and all them are just out of here.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

And the first Death Star had an easily exploitable weakness,

 

Only to those who know about it.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Only to those who know about it.

 

Plus it took someone with The Force to be able to let the torpdeos go at the right moment(which I don't think the SE had force sensitive pilots in their starfighter corps unless I'm missing something), and also of course...well having proton torpedos. The Supremacy fighters that the SE have don't have proton torpedos just laser cannons as far as I know, there also isn't anything in regards to the specs on the ship...the same with the bombers really.

 

Even if the SE somehow manages to destroy a Death Star, they still have to contend with the 2nd one which was bigger in size, more firepower, quicker recharge time on the super laser, better accuracy and so on.

 

Then there is also the other super weapons, such as the Eclipse super dreadnaughts, Galaxy Gun, World Devastators, so on so forth.

 

Ships? I haven't seen any other ship that is used by the SE fleets other than the Supermacy and bombers. Meanwhile the GE has for starfighters, the various TIE models. It's the same with the larger and bigger cruisers.

 

So on and so on.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Plus it took someone with The Force to be able to let the torpdeos go at the right moment(which I don't think the SE had force sensitive pilots in their starfighter corps unless I'm missing something), and also of course...well having proton torpedos. The Supremacy fighters that the SE have don't have proton torpedos just laser cannons as far as I know, there also isn't anything in regards to the specs on the ship...the same with the bombers really.

 

Even if the SE somehow manages to destroy a Death Star, they still have to contend with the 2nd one which was bigger in size, more firepower, quicker recharge time on the super laser, better accuracy and so on.

 

Then there is also the other super weapons, such as the Eclipse super dreadnaughts, Galaxy Gun, World Devastators, so on so forth.

 

Ships? I haven't seen any other ship that is used by the SE fleets other than the Supermacy and bombers. Meanwhile the GE has for starfighters, the various TIE models. It's the same with the larger and bigger cruisers.

 

So on and so on.

 

People talk about the Galaxy Gun being overpowered, which it is, but let's give the World Devastators some credit. If you don't make an analysis thread on them, I will.

 

Edit: No! Don't do it, Wolf. I'm doing it!

Edited December 6, 2013 by Aurbere

[Wolfninjajedi]

People talk about the Galaxy Gun being overpowered, which it is, but let's give the World Devastators some credit. If you don't make an analysis thread on them, I will.

 

Edit: No! Don't do it, Wolf. I'm doing it!

 

But I wanted to do it! It's ok though you can do it, i'll pick another super weapon. Though I actually find the WD's quite interesting in their design specs. But jeez...I must be reading too many other comics, I still can't see anything OP in the SWU compared to what other comic universes have. I mean sure if you just narrow it down to the SWU it could be OP, but I still don't see it cause I compare it to other stuff from other comics....maybe I should stop reading other comics lol. :p

Edited December 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

But I wanted to do it! It's ok though you can do it, i'll pick another super weapon. Though I actually find the WD's quite interesting in their design specs. But jeez...I must be reading too many other comics, I still can't see anything OP in the SWU compared to what other comic universes have. I mean sure if you just narrow it down to the SWU it could be OP, but I still don't see it cause I compare it to other stuff from other comics....maybe I should stop reading other comics lol. :p

 

Well, when you see Superman lift

, Star Wars looks pretty tame.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well, when you see Superman lift

, Star Wars looks pretty tame.

 

Also lets not forget the Ultimate Nulifier, the Infinity Gauntlet, Dr. Doom's tech, so on and so forth. Though Superman lifting that much IIRC was he absorbed so much sun that it was killing him(or well that is what is leaded to believe)...but yeah that is still a ridiculous feat.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Also lets not forget the Ultimate Nulifier, the Infinity Gauntlet, Dr. Doom's tech, so on and so forth. Though Superman lifting that much IIRC was he absorbed so much sun that it was killing him(or well that is what is leaded to believe)...but yeah that is still a ridiculous feat.

 

I think you're right about that. Star Wars is pretty tame.

 

But back on topic, GE wins.

[Silenceo]

I do have a few questions regarding the World Devastators however, using their molecular furnaces, is there a limit to what they can synthesize? Besides having the schematics for it i mean. For example, if the World Devastator was well developed and had the schematics for say...a Phase 2 Dark Trooper exoskeleton/droid...could it produce one? Or would it be unable to create the Phrik required to build it? Or would it just take a really long time?

[Beniboybling]

Ships? I haven't seen any other ship that is used by the SE fleets other than the Supermacy and bombers. Meanwhile the GE has for starfighters, the various TIE models. It's the same with the larger and bigger cruisers.

 

So on and so on.

Well actually thanks to Galactic Starfighter we know quite a bit more about the Empire's starfighter composition. Including gunships, scouts and strike fighters. Some info here.

 

And you do actually get to assist in space battles as a Sith Lord, which has happened in lore before so I assume yes. Whether they flew in small fighters I can't be sure, but there are plenty of ways to destroy the Death Star.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Only to those who know about it.

Well lets not forget that they do have a highly sophisticated intelligence arm.

 

They could also probably just shoot it with a counter-superweapon. Or just shoot it really. BDZ that superlaser.

 

Heck if they do have that Emperor's Shadow thingy they could just pulverize it in hyperspace.

 

Altogether I concur with the idea that the Death Star is not a very practical weapon, its massive and therefore super slow can only fire at one target at a time over a long period and the output really doesn't end up being worth it - it can blow up planets (not very useful for anything other than sowing terror) and pot shot a ship every now and then.

 

Like someone else said, the Sith Empire has those capabilities in the Ascendant Spear and that other weapon, but these weapons are more flexible, can be moved around and applied rapidly etc. etc.

 

EDIT: Heck they could just board the thing and blow it up from the inside, or sabotage it.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

I do have a few questions regarding the World Devastators however, using their molecular furnaces, is there a limit to what they can synthesize? Besides having the schematics for it i mean. For example, if the World Devastator was well developed and had the schematics for say...a Phase 2 Dark Trooper exoskeleton/droid...could it produce one? Or would it be unable to create the Phrik required to build it? Or would it just take a really long time?

 

As far as I know, no they didn't have limits other than they could only make droids, starfighters, starships, speeders. So given they could make droids, they probably could make Dark Troopers if given the schematics.

 

Well actually thanks to Galactic Starfighter we know quite a bit more about the Empire's starfighter composition. Including gunships, scouts and strike fighters. Some info here.

 

And you do actually get to assist in space battles as a Sith Lord, which has happened in lore before so I assume yes. Whether they flew in small fighters I can't be sure, but there are plenty of ways to destroy the Death Star.

 

Well until some actual canon info is out there in regards to those ships, I think i'll just stick with what is up now for the SE's ships. Also yes as a Sith Lord you can get in and support the fleets, but I am assuming for this case were not including any big names and besides as you said, don't know if the SE have force sensitive pilots in their starfighter corps.

 

As for the SE Super weapons....while they are more manuverable, remember that for the most part. They are just on big ships, that could just easily be destroyed moreso than the Death Stars. The biggest weapon the SE has requires 3 parts to put together, one of those parts gets destroyed...then well no more super weapon.

 

As for the Gauntlet, while it's all impressive and everything we can't just assume that the GE could just target the DSs while in hyperspace and destroy them.....their biggest things that the SE seem to destroy are ships and they got 1 super weapon that requires 3 moving parts to destroy a planet.

 

Also the 2nd DS could destroy ships rather quick if you recall Beni. So every now and then, is more like every couple of minutes.

 

But then lets say the SE does somehow destroy the 2 Death Stars, not like the SE would go unscathed because if they arrive with one of their own super weapons to destroy it. The DSs could just destroy their super weapons right back.

 

Even if not, it's not like the GE doesn't have other super weapons to use.

 

Another thing...if the Republic could locate these Super Weapons that the SE uses, then I am sure that the GE Imperial Intelligence would be able to do the same with their vast reach across the galaxy.

 

But then again...neither side would probably use their Super Weapons right out the gate.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Why can't we assume the hyperspace superweapon couldn't destroy the Death Star? Its designed to destroy vessels in hyperspace is it not? And anyway there are many ways as I said to destroy such a massive target, it could just be boarded and shutdown for one. Or subject to massive and overwhelming fire.

 

In fact I'd theorize that the Desolator itself could be used for that exact purpose. It cannot of course ignite the Death Star's not existence atmosphere but I'd say its superlaser would have a good chance of penetrating its 'crust' and the Shock Drum would be devastatingly effective at ripping it apart from the inside - as it is specifically design to damage and destroy mechanical devices. It would certainly be enough to destroy the superlaser.

 

Indeed all they'd need to do is win the space battle the Death Star is present in, and it would be as good as finished.

 

And the fact that it can be mounted on a capital ships makes it all the more powerful, because that means it can be mass-produced. Given time the Sith Empire would be no doubt capable of replicating the weapon and fixing it on over vessels, and the Silencer could and was mounted on multiple vessels. And it can tear apart fleets.

 

Indeed without a weakened powerbase and the Republic hunting down and destroying their projects the Sith will be far more capable of producing these weapons before they become known to their enemies. On top of that the Galactic Empire doesn't have Jedi to call upon to take these threats down.

 

Which is another thing, the more superior Sith Lords and Darth's wield considerably power and just just lead elite task forces to take over planets single handedly and assassinate important individuals - and the Galactic Empire would be more or else powerless to stop them, just look how Galen Marek single handedly tore them to shreds.

[Beniboybling]

I'd like to point out that one of the flaws with the galaxy gun is the lack of knowledge on targets, territories within Sith Space and the Unknown Regions would likely be either completely unknown to them, or they simply wouldn't be aware of the Sith presence on the planet - which could give the Empire enough to to track it down and destroy it.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Why can't we assume the hyperspace superweapon couldn't destroy the Death Star? Its designed to destroy vessels in hyperspace is it not? And anyway there are many ways as I said to destroy such a massive target, it could just be boarded and shutdown for one. Or subject to massive and overwhelming fire.

 

In fact I'd theorize that the Desolator itself could be used for that exact purpose. It cannot of course ignite the Death Star's not existence atmosphere but I'd say its superlaser would have a good chance of penetrating its 'crust' and the Shock Drum would be devastatingly effective at ripping it apart from the inside - as it is specifically design to damage and destroy mechanical devices. It would certainly be enough to destroy the superlaser.

 

Indeed all they'd need to do is win the space battle the Death Star is present in, and it would be as good as finished.

 

And the fact that it can be mounted on a capital ships makes it all the more powerful, because that means it can be mass-produced. Given time the Sith Empire would be no doubt capable of replicating the weapon and fixing it on over vessels, and the Silencer could and was mounted on multiple vessels. And it can tear apart fleets.

 

Indeed without a weakened powerbase and the Republic hunting down and destroying their projects the Sith will be far more capable of producing these weapons before they become known to their enemies. On top of that the Galactic Empire doesn't have Jedi to call upon to take these threats down.

 

Which is another thing, the more superior Sith Lords and Darth's wield considerably power and just just lead elite task forces to take over planets single handedly and assassinate important individuals - and the Galactic Empire would be more or else powerless to stop them, just look how Galen Marek single handedly tore them to shreds.

 

Because the SE has only destroyed mere ships with it, not something the size of a moon plus the fact the Death Stars have shields that protect them against energy weaponry(limited, but even so), plus the giant hull of Quadanium steel.

 

I mean a blaster could punch through Titanum, but are you gonna assume that it would be able to punch through better quality steels?

 

As for boarding it and shutting it down, good luck with getting to do that considering it has a large defense both inside and out.

 

I don't see how the SE could win a space battle considering their fleet ships and starfighters, comparing them with the GE ships and starfighters.

 

They can only be mass produced quickly thanks to the Sun Razor which even then takes time(about a year), all the GE would need to do is find it and destroy it. The GE don't need Jedi, you know they do have themselves Dark Jedi and Inquisitors and others that can use The Force. Not that they have a lot of numbers of these, but still.

 

There is also more than 1 way to skin a cat, as it were. So there can be other ways in finding them.

 

Again Beni, I don't think were including big names for this battle here. Otherwise...well the GE is gonna have some pretty big guys to call upon.

 

Also I'm pretty sure Galen Marek is gonna be superior to some no name Sith who hasn't shown anything.

 

Not every Sith/Jedi is some powerhouse you know, some don't even have that great of powers or anything really. So why should we guess that they should?

Edited December 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Because the SE has only destroyed mere ships with it, not something the size of a moon plus the fact the Death Stars have shields that protect them against energy weaponry(limited, but even so), plus the giant hull of Quadanium steel.

 

I mean a blaster could punch through Titanum, but are you gonna assume that it would be able to punch through better quality steels?

 

As for boarding it and shutting it down, good luck with getting to do that considering it has a large defense both inside and out.

 

I don't see how the SE could win a space battle considering their fleet ships and starfighters, comparing them with the GE ships and starfighters.

 

They can only be mass produced quickly thanks to the Sun Razor which even then takes time(about a year), all the GE would need to do is find it and destroy it. The GE don't need Jedi, you know they do have themselves Dark Jedi and Inquisitors and others that can use The Force. Not that they have a lot of numbers of these, but still.

 

There is also more than 1 way to skin a cat, as it were. So there can be other ways in finding them.

 

Again Beni, I don't think were including big names for this battle here. Otherwise...well the GE is gonna have some pretty big guys to call upon.

 

Also I'm pretty sure Galen Marek is gonna be superior to some no name Sith who hasn't shown anything.

 

Not every Sith/Jedi is some powerhouse you know, some don't even have that great of powers or anything really. So why should we guess that they should?

Well it depends on how exactly it works, hyperspace is a very volatile space and it could use that to its advantage.

 

Concerning its defenses I doubt a strike team of Sith Lords will have trouble taking down a few hundred Stomtroopers - that supposedly "tight" security didn't prevent the Big Three running around willy nilly or Kenobi shutting down its tractor beam generators, Its certainly got a lot of defenses on the outside but all they have to do is smuggle themselves in.

 

But like I said, in the end all they had to do is destroy its escort and then blow it to pieces.

 

Concerning space battles in general, I'm still considering that if these empire's existed in the same era, they would have the same level of technology, its just illogical to operate without that. And in that case the Sith Empire is just as formidable and has a wide range of fighters, the Empire only surpasses them in that category with experimental and such and in reality those were rarely used and not present at every space battle.

 

And then of course we have to consider things like boarding parties, one of two powerful Sith could commandeer and entire vessel, and then of course we have battle meditation which I'm sure is something that some Sith possessed. And while the Sith themselves may not be integrated into the Starfighter corps they did have powerful vessels designed to engage in space battle, which they did, which gives the Sith another edge.

 

And then we've got the likelihood of superior pilots and naval officers given their extremely militarized society, as opposed to the expansive morass of rabble the Galactic Empire picks from.

 

And that's without considering their superweapons and vessels such as the Ascendant Spear which in all honesty could probably take down an entire Imperial Fleet with little difficulty. I think all in all they have a good a chance as any.

 

And I never made any mention of "big names"* I'm just talking about Darth's in general. Sith Lords trained as warriors alone were very powerful, just look at the feats of Lord Adraas for example. Now consider how powerful a Darth could be. No they do not compare to Galen Marek but he was one guy, if one incredibly powerful Force User is literally unstoppable against the forces of the Empire, who practically brought out everything they had and none of it was enough to even slow him down, think how much damage a dozen or more Sith could do.

 

Anyway lets deal with the facts here rather than throwing around silly words liked "named characters" and before you no it "fodder" which have no bearing from an in-universe perspective and are purely artistic licenses:

 

Millions strive to become Sith, but many prove to weak to earn the honor. Among the powerful survivors, only the most stalwart and aggressive warriors possess the relentless tenacity to lead the forefront of the Empire's war. Charging into the fray with fearsome battle cries and deadly lightsabers, Sith warriors break their enemies with sheer dominating will and crush any foe who doesn't flee from their unforgiving march. The most triumphant warriors inspire legions of allies with fear and reverence. Under Sith command, bolstered armies fight with roused passion and pride, often decimating superior numbers with their indomitable assaults. Whether striking for the Empire's glory or for personal renown, there is no more dominating than that of the Sith warrior.

 

Yes they are power houses and yes they are strong in the Force. And really the Galactic Empire has little to defend against them, unless they can surround them with overwhelming numbers a few Sith or less could storm any facility and take it down with ease. And in such closed spaces the Empire just can't apply its full numbers.

 

Essentially they are any army of Special Forces - accept better.

 

*Though I think we should consider everyone accept Sidious and the Sith Emperor, who are just OPed.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Edit: You know what, just forget it because were not gonna get anywhere with this. Lets just let this go into the abyss. Edited December 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Selenial]

I'd like to point out that one of the flaws with the galaxy gun is the lack of knowledge on targets, territories within Sith Space and the Unknown Regions would likely be either completely unknown to them, or they simply wouldn't be aware of the Sith presence on the planet - which could give the Empire enough to to track it down and destroy it.

 

Wait, so Palpatine has no idea of Korriban and Dromund Kaas?

 

There's absolutely no way the Sith Empire would win this, but I agree with Wolf, this is going nowhere, let's end this.

[Beniboybling]

Wait, so Palpatine has no idea of Korriban and Dromund Kaas?

 

There's absolutely no way the Sith Empire would win this, but I agree with Wolf, this is going nowhere, let's end this.

Like I said, some planets they are aware of, some they just won't be aware the Sith occupy. The Galactic Empire wouldn't really know much about what planets in Sith Space the Empire occupies, and they'd know even less about the Unknown Regions - these worlds are not out in the open.

 

And do you really think Sidious is going to fire the galaxy gun on such a well of dark side power?

 

And there are many ways the Sith Empire could win this, fewer ways in which people can be convinced that the Galactic Empire isn't invincible. But hey if peeps aren't interested in having this debate, I won't push.

[Selenial]

Like I said, some planets they are aware of, some they just won't be aware the Sith occupy. The Galactic Empire wouldn't really know much about what planets in Sith Space the Empire occupies, and they'd know even less about the Unknown Regions - these worlds are not out in the open.

 

And do you really think Sidious is going to fire the galaxy gun on such a well of dark side power?

 

And there are many ways the Sith Empire could win this, fewer ways in which people can be convinced that the Galactic Empire isn't invincible. But hey if peeps aren't interested in having this debate, I won't push.

 

I think the problem with the debate is that we dont have a proper Arbiter, and even if any of us were to take over it'd be no different. Pretty much everyone in this thread is Biased to their favorite side of Canon

 

Oh and Yes, Palpatine would happily destroy Wells of Dark Side power, he was happy wiping out Yavin IV...

 

And he need only the threat of destruction to throw the Sith Empire into complete surrender, it was actually a plant he Republic planned to utilize in the war...

[Beniboybling]

I think the problem with the debate is that we dont have a proper Arbiter, and even if any of us were to take over it'd be no different. Pretty much everyone in this thread is Biased to their favorite side of Canon

 

Oh and Yes, Palpatine would happily destroy Wells of Dark Side power, he was happy wiping out Yavin IV...

 

And he need only the threat of destruction to throw the Sith Empire into complete surrender, it was actually a plant he Republic planned to utilize in the war...

Yavin IV... Korriban. I don't know. Heck is there even any evidence to suggest that he was aware of the power on Yavin, which lets face it wasn't exactly pervading. And he did visit Korriban quite a few times, which is like the birth place of the Sith. You don't just blow that up. Anyway Sidious doesn't actually know whether the Sith occupy these worlds. Guessing probably isn't a good idea when we are talking about the obliteration of planets.

 

And that's the thing, Sidious uses the Tarkin Doctrine which means waving big superweapons about in everyone's faces. This means that the Sith won't have to spend time finding them, they'll just follow the signs, and really if a rag tag bunch of rebels weren't put off by the threat of the Death Star - an Empire of Sith who don't understand the meaning of surrender or submission will fight to their last dying breath.

 

Also consider that when Sidious started firing the Galaxy Gun willy nilly, he's own men turned against him.

[Aurbere]

They could also probably just shoot it with a counter-superweapon. Or just shoot it really. BDZ that superlaser.

 

Jan Dodonna thought of that. Said it was a hopeless endeavor.

 

Remember that the Death Star is more than just a giant superlaser. It has a lot of turbolasers and a ton of starfighters.

[Beniboybling]

Jan Dodonna thought of that. Said it was a hopeless endeavor.

 

Remember that the Death Star is more than just a giant superlaser. It has a lot of turbolasers and a ton of starfighters.

Ha! It can't withstand firepower of

magnatude!

[Aurbere]

Ha! It can't withstand firepower of

magnatude!

 

So what? It's a competition to see who fires first?

[Beniboybling]

So what? It's a competition to see who fires first?

Yup, accept the Silencer can creep up from behind. And the Death Star takes 24 hours to recharge.