Holocron Legacy

[DarthTHC]

A dev did make that statement 7 months ago, but there has been NOTHING further from any dev about legacy datacrons.

 

Is it possible that they'd like to offer legacy datacrons for CC's? Is it possible that they have not so far figured out how to offer legacy datacrons for CC's without it being P2W, or Pay for PVP advantage? Who knows?

 

Is it possible that that statement was made to pacify the "entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd? Is it possible that this was a "soft no"? Who knows?

 

IMO, the lack of anything further from the devs and the fact that datacrons still need to be EARNED PER CHARACTER would point to no legacy datacrons, whether the reason is due to P2W considerations, or simply design philosophy.

 

No. The developers never make statements for that reason.

 

Your words on this topic seem highly emotional and bordering on incendiary. That's... troubling. I hope you're OK.

[Seireeni]

A dev did make that statement 7 months ago, but there has been NOTHING further from any dev about legacy datacrons.

 

Is it possible that they'd like to offer legacy datacrons for CC's? Is it possible that they have not so far figured out how to offer legacy datacrons for CC's without it being P2W, or Pay for PVP advantage? Who knows?

 

Is it possible that that statement was made to pacify the "entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd? Is it possible that this was a "soft no"? Who knows?

 

IMO, the lack of anything further from the devs and the fact that datacrons still need to be EARNED PER CHARACTER would point to no legacy datacrons, whether the reason is due to P2W considerations, or simply design philosophy.

 

Or they are priorising and this is not on the top of the "to do"-list. Not to mention that seems to be one dev's personal opinion about things, "pretty high on his personal wishlist". Doesn't mean all the devs would agree with it.

 

Can't see how that would be "soft no", though. Avoiding to actually say anything, sure, but "soft no" would be something like "we'd love you to have it, but due technical issues it's impossible for now".

[DarthTHC]

What is the stat bonus to meaningful stats from getting all Datacrons?

 

From another thread:

 

So the 'crons in sum total give you +40 to your "main" stat and +50 to Endurance.

 

I don't PvP so I'll need someone who does to help me out with these...

 

What is the total amount of meaningful stats that the 'crons buff that a character has with typical / mid-range WZ gear?

 

What is the total amount of meaningful stats that 'crons buff that a character has with high-end WZ gear?

 

What I'm getting at....

 

As far as PvP goes, is the benefit of the 'crons nothing more than a rounding error?

 

I found it telling that nobody in the "It would DESTROY the SANCTITY of PVP!" crowd would answer my questions so I did some searches & stuff.

 

As it turns out, you'll have a "naked" main stat of 420 at 55th level and an Endurance of 380-410.

 

Let's take a look at the Conqueror Challenger set for stats.

 

Ear: 137 STR, 145 END

Implant (x2): 137 STR, 145 END (x2)

Boots: 136 STR, 146 END

Bracer: 136 STR, 110 END

Gloves: 136 STR, 146 END

Head: 136 STR, 146 END

Legs: 136 STR, 146 END

Main Hand: 136 STR, 146 END

Off Hand: 136 STR, 146 END

Chest: 136 STR, 146 END

Waist: 136 STR, 110 END

 

Grand total: 2,055 STR and around 2,072 END

 

The benefit of the 'crons is 40 STR, which is TWO PERCENT of overall stats. The benefit of the 'crons is 50 END which is TWO POINT FOUR PERCENT of overall stat.

 

It's a rounding error. Its impact on PvP should be far less discernable than player skill.

 

Why are we complaining about this again?

[Ratajack]

I found it telling that nobody in the "It would DESTROY the SANCTITY of PVP!" crowd would answer my questions so I did some searches & stuff.

 

As it turns out, you'll have a "naked" main stat of 420 at 55th level and an Endurance of 380-410.

 

Let's take a look at the Conqueror Challenger set for stats.

 

Ear: 137 STR, 145 END

Implant (x2): 137 STR, 145 END (x2)

Boots: 136 STR, 146 END

Bracer: 136 STR, 110 END

Gloves: 136 STR, 146 END

Head: 136 STR, 146 END

Legs: 136 STR, 146 END

Main Hand: 136 STR, 146 END

Off Hand: 136 STR, 146 END

Chest: 136 STR, 146 END

Waist: 136 STR, 110 END

 

Grand total: 2,055 STR and around 2,072 END

 

The benefit of the 'crons is 40 STR, which is TWO PERCENT of overall stats. The benefit of the 'crons is 50 END which is TWO POINT FOUR PERCENT of overall stat.

 

It's a rounding error. Its impact on PvP should be far less discernable than player skill.

Why are we complaining about this again?

 

Why is the "entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible crowd" so concerned about having with those "miniscule" bonuses (the ones that should have less impact on PVP than player skill) on their alts if they are not willing to find them with those alts?

[DarthTHC]

Why is the "entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible crowd" so concerned about having with those "miniscule" bonuses (the ones that should have less impact on PVP than player skill) on their alts if they are not willing to find them with those alts?

 

Why do they want to have experience bonuses? Rocket boots? Access to speeders at level 10?

 

Why should we have group finder for flash points and war zones and shuttles to take us there once they pop?

 

Why not create a treadmill add-on for the game and force people to walk while they play? If they walk far enough, they get such-and-such a bonus. If they run, they get more.

 

Converse: Why force people to do the same thing over and over and over again? Especially when that thing was meant to be a reward for exploration, which is a player rather than character impact? (That is, once the player knows how to get there and has seen the sights, there is no more "wow" factor for that player in solving the puzzle or seeing the sight again.)

 

It is fortunate for the game that the developers do not think as you do, or the game would be tedious, boring, and unplayable.

[Ratajack]

Why do they want to have experience bonuses? Rocket boots? Access to speeders at level 10?

 

Why should we have group finder for flash points and war zones and shuttles to take us there once they pop?

 

Why not create a treadmill add-on for the game and force people to walk while they play? If they walk far enough, they get such-and-such a bonus. If they run, they get more.

 

Converse: Why force people to do the same thing over and over and over again? Especially when that thing was meant to be a reward for exploration, which is a player rather than character impact? (That is, once the player knows how to get there and has seen the sights, there is no more "wow" factor for that player in solving the puzzle or seeing the sight again.)

 

It is fortunate for the game that the developers do not think as you do, or the game would be tedious, boring, and unplayable.

 

 

Exploration is a CHARACTER impact. Fully exploring an area on ONE character does NOT reveal that map for any other characters. It only applies to the character that did the exploring. Therefore, since those datacron bonuses are meant to be a reward for exploration, an activity that is CHARACTER BASED, shouldn't those rewards be character based also?

[DarthTHC]

Exploration is a CHARACTER impact. Fully exploring an area on ONE character does NOT reveal that map for any other characters. It only applies to the character that did the exploring. Therefore, since those datacron bonuses are meant to be a reward for exploration, an activity that is CHARACTER BASED, shouldn't those rewards be character based also?

 

Now you're twisting logic.

 

If you, Ratajack, have made it to the 'cron back behind that big beastie by the startport on Dromund Kaas, then you, Ratajack, have gained the benefit of that exploration. The only thing that will happen if you do it again is you'll see the same thing again. Do the same thing again. You will experience nothing new.

 

The purpose of a game is to entertain the player.

 

Why can I earn commendations on my level 55 Shadow, buy level 27 gear mods with them, and ship those level 27 gear mods to my Operative?

Edited December 11, 2013 by DarthTHC

[Ratajack]

Now you're twisting logic.

 

If you, Ratajack, have made it to the 'cron back behind that big beastie by the startport on Dromund Kaas, then you, Ratajack, have gained the benefit of that exploration. The only thing that will happen if you do it again is you'll see the same thing again. Do the same thing again. You will experience nothing new.

 

The purpose of a game is to entertain the player.

 

Why can I earn commendations on my level 55 Shadow, buy level 27 gear mods with them, and ship those level 27 gear mods to my Operative?

 

 

Possibly because there is only ONE set of mods that you are purchasing and shipping.

 

You cannot purchase A SINGLE set of mods with your main and have EVERY character on your account, present and future, get an equivalent set of mods.

 

Those mods also do not give PERMANENT stat boosts to your CHARACTER'S stats. They increase your character's stats, but only while those mods are in an equipped piece of gear. Those datacron stat bonuses would be in effect even if your character is naked.

[Anzel]

The pro-Legacy Datacron people always seem to say this yet have no problem doing the same dailies/flashpoints/raids/levelng missions/etc over and over and over again. It feels like it's just one giant hypocritical conspiracy theory cuz I can't believe they don't see this giant flaw in their logic.

 

Wow, that's a generalization, a massive assumption and an unnecessary insult thrown in for good measure.

 

I don't like repeating the same content over and over and over again. Period. I don't need, nor was I seeking your agreement or approval. I pay to play this game and I pay for my right to express my opinion here, which I am ENTITLED to.

 

It's too bad that people like you are part of the community but I guess you need to do whatever you need to do to feel tough and superior. Great job.

[DarthTHC]

Possibly because there is only ONE set of mods that you are purchasing and shipping.

 

You cannot purchase A SINGLE set of mods with your main and have EVERY character on your account, present and future, get an equivalent set of mods.

 

Those mods also do not give PERMANENT stat boosts to your CHARACTER'S stats. They increase your character's stats, but only while those mods are in an equipped piece of gear. Those datacron stat bonuses would be in effect even if your character is naked.

 

I'm still having trouble understanding your motivation for arguing against this tedium-reliever.

 

Could you perhaps word it in the context of enhancing the player experience or enhancing EA revenue?

[morfius]

May we try again...

This is not Super Mario or SWG ... get it damn it.

Jump around on same route again and again in this game is NOT FUN, waiting an hour turning left & right to avoid kick due to inactivity in this game is NOT FUN!

Doing it once ... well, doing it 12-22 times ... surely NOT!

Jumping and waiting are not well implemented, they are not part of game play and serve no object...

Legacy system to bypass jumping & waiting nonsense will be highly appreciated.

It may not be a simple unlock, not because of all that hardcore competition/elitist jerk crap in those treads - but to have original system level, discovery, time and money sinks.

There is much options that can be used, from quest chains, via legacy containers up to legacy grapple that allows jumping/waiting bypass.

[branmakmuffin]

I found it telling that nobody in the "It would DESTROY the SANCTITY of PVP!" crowd would answer my questions so I did some searches & stuff.

Grand total: 2,055 STR and around 2,072 END

 

The benefit of the 'crons is 40 STR, which is TWO PERCENT of overall stats. The benefit of the 'crons is 50 END which is TWO POINT FOUR PERCENT of overall stat.

 

It's a rounding error. Its impact on PvP should be far less discernable than player skill.

 

Why are we complaining about this again?

Exactly. The benefit is so minimal, as you point out, that lacking it is irrelevant. Therefore not having the datacron stat boosts is no big deal and no changes to the system need be made.

 

May we try again...

This is not Super Mario or SWG ... get it damn it.

Jump around on same route again and again in this game is NOT FUN, waiting an hour turning left & right to avoid kick due to inactivity in this game is NOT FUN!

Then don't do it. Get it damn it.

Edited December 12, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[DarthTHC]

Exactly. The benefit is so minimal, as you point out, that lacking it is irrelevant. Therefore not having the datacron stat boosts is no big deal and no changes to the system need be made.

 

 

Right. So if the benefit is so minimal, what exactly is your argument against implementing the feature? Can't be PvP - the stats are irrelevant to the equation.

 

Is it that you like that the game adds tedious elements that some players find way too challenging to do multiple times given the combination of computer specs, network latency, and possible physical handicaps?

 

In other words, what does it hurt to implement this request?

Edited December 12, 2013 by DarthTHC

[branmakmuffin]

Right. So if the benefit is so minimal, what exactly is your argument against implementing the feature? Can't be PvP - the stats are irrelevant to the equation.

Right, so if the benefit is minimal what exactly is your argument for implementing this feature? Can't be PvP. The stats are irrelevant to the equation.

 

If the benefits are minimal, the only reason to do it is to satisfy some players' "OCD." That's not a reason to make any change.

Edited December 12, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[DarthTHC]

Right, so if the benefit is minimal what exactly is your argument for implementing this feature? Can't be PvP. The stats are irrelevant to the equation.

 

If the benefits are minimal, the only reason to do it is to satisfy some players' "OCD." That's not a reason to make any change.

 

Answer mine and I'll answer yours. What's your best, most rational, most eloquent argument against?

[branmakmuffin]

Answer mine and I'll answer yours. What's your best, most rational, most eloquent argument against?

You're the one who wants the new feature. I'm happy with things as they are.

[Ratajack]

May we try again...

This is not Super Mario or SWG ... get it damn it.

Jump around on same route again and again in this game is NOT FUN, waiting an hour turning left & right to avoid kick due to inactivity in this game is NOT FUN!

Doing it once ... well, doing it 12-22 times ... surely NOT!

Jumping and waiting are not well implemented, they are not part of game play and serve no object...

Legacy system to bypass jumping & waiting nonsense will be highly appreciated.

It may not be a simple unlock, not because of all that hardcore competition/elitist jerk crap in those treads - but to have original system level, discovery, time and money sinks.

There is much options that can be used, from quest chains, via legacy containers up to legacy grapple that allows jumping/waiting bypass.

 

If you are asking that BW make some changes to the datacrons to reduce the amount of jumping, etc. needed to reach the datacrons, that I would support, as long as each character still needs to find the datacrons to receive the stat bonuses.

 

If you are asking to be able to find the datacrons on ONE character and receive those stat bonuses on EVERY character, present and future, that I do not support.

[branmakmuffin]

As far as jumping goes. some people like jumping. They don't want to play a "platform" game, but they want to exercise their "twitch" skills a bit. The hard-to-reach datacrons is a small reward for that. And for those who don't like it, the only thing not getting each and every datacron affects is their "OCD."

[Ratajack]

Right. So if the benefit is so minimal, what exactly is your argument against implementing the feature? Can't be PvP - the stats are irrelevant to the equation.

 

Is it that you like that the game adds tedious elements that some players find way too challenging to do multiple times given the combination of computer specs, network latency, and possible physical handicaps?

 

In other words, what does it hurt to implement this request?

 

What about the people that find leveling, doing OPS or PVP too tedious or challenging yet do those things multiple times, in spite of the combination of computer specs, network latency and possible physical handicaps, to receive the benefits those activities provide?

 

In other words, what does it hurt to make it so that no one EVER has to do anything more than once. Everyone has SOMETHING about the game that they do not like or that they find "unfun" or tedious.

 

Once a player reaches max level, shouldn't they be able to create max level characters so they don't have to go through the tedium of the leveling process? Once a player obtains a piece of gear through PVP or OPS, shouldn't their other characters, present and future, automatically be given an equivalent piece of gear so that they do not have to go through the tedium of those activities again? Once a player gets their companions to max affection and gains all the companion unlocks once, shouldn't all their other present and future character's companions automatically reach max affection and be automatically unlocked? The list goes on and on.

 

No one would be forced to use any of the above legacy unlocks. They would all be optional. If a player enjoys leveling, they would not have to create max level characters. They could create level 1 characters and still go through the leveling process. If a player likes doing OPS or PVP, they could delete those pieces of gear that were "gifted" to alts and run the OPS or WZ's to get them on each alt. They could even add a toggle for companion affection and unlocks so that a player could choose to actually go through that process, as well. The list goes on and on.

[Ratajack]

As far as jumping goes. some people like jumping. They don't want to play a "platform" game, but they want to exercise their "twitch" skills a bit. The hard-to-reach datacrons is a small reward for that. And for those who don't like it, the only thing not getting each and every datacron affects is their "OCD."

 

Some people do like jumping. I understand that not all people do, however.

 

Like you, I believe that the datacron bonuses should be earned by each character and not a single character for an entire legacy or account. I understand some of the frustration experienced by many players, as I have experienced the same frustration. That does not stop me from doing what I have to do to obtain those bonuses, though.

 

I'm just wondering if a way to make it easier to obtain the datacrons on alts, but still require that they BE obtained by those alts is possible or would be accepted by the "have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd.

 

Might it be possible for BW to implement some way to make it easier to obtain the datacrons which could be unlocked by combination of legacy level and a single character having found all the datacrons for each faction?

 

The suggestion of a grapple might make it easier for those who have trouble jumping to complete the jumps or obtain the datacrons on the sandcrawler. The grapple unlock could be faction specific, require a single character on that faction to have found all the datacrons and the grapple could be made BOP so each character would have to purchase it.

[Vandicus]

Answer mine and I'll answer yours. What's your best, most rational, most eloquent argument against?

 

My most rational argument against it is that it removes content rewards for other people. Currently, the group of people who regularly go after datacrons for the stat bonus(which given is probably not all that large a group) only receives the reward of the stat bonus for their efforts. Removing that reward would be akin to removing gear drops from raids or commendations from pvp for that group of people. Again, they are a very small group of people, but we're still talking about something that dramatically affects that gameplay experience.

 

I wouldn't mind having datacron bonuses on all characters, but I'm not supporting the removal of content rewards for these people, even though I don't play the content.

[Ratajack]

My most rational argument against it is that it removes content rewards for other people. Currently, the group of people who regularly go after datacrons for the stat bonus(which given is probably not all that large a group) only receives the reward of the stat bonus for their efforts. Removing that reward would be akin to removing gear drops from raids or commendations from pvp for that group of people. Again, they are a very small group of people, but we're still talking about something that dramatically affects that gameplay experience.

 

I wouldn't mind having datacron bonuses on all characters, but I'm not supporting the removal of content rewards for these people, even though I don't play the content.

 

Well said.

[Duniss]

My most rational argument against it is that it removes content rewards for other people. Currently, the group of people who regularly go after datacrons for the stat bonus(which given is probably not all that large a group) only receives the reward of the stat bonus for their efforts. Removing that reward would be akin to removing gear drops from raids or commendations from pvp for that group of people. Again, they are a very small group of people, but we're still talking about something that dramatically affects that gameplay experience.

 

I wouldn't mind having datacron bonuses on all characters, but I'm not supporting the removal of content rewards for these people, even though I don't play the content.

I have 3 max lvl on pub side bunch on of alts imp side lvl 15 to lvl 52 have goten all datacrons on pub side 3 times already there few I havent bother to colect on imp side. My legacy is 50 for more then year and a half but they havent added any new perks for high lvl legacy for god knows how long... And idea of going for those datacrons again for some alt its not fun at all. Legacy unlock for datacrons is an awsome idea and I dont realy mind if they make it for max lvl or as soon as you create new alt but its a great idea. My proposal would be reduce datacrons unlock cost if more then one alt already have it so that people who worked so hard to get those datacrons would get smothing out of it.

[Ratajack]

I have 3 max lvl on pub side bunch on of alts imp side lvl 15 to lvl 52 have goten all datacrons on pub side 3 times already there few I havent bother to colect on imp side. My legacy is 50 for more then year and a half but they havent added any new perks for high lvl legacy for god knows how long... And idea of going for those datacrons again for some alt its not fun at all. Legacy unlock for datacrons is an awsome idea and I dont realy mind if they make it for max lvl or as soon as you create new alt but its a great idea. My proposal would be reduce datacrons unlock cost if more then one alt already have it so that people who worked so hard to get those datacrons would get smothing out of it.

 

 

The datacrons are completely OPTIONAL. The bonuses have been called a "rounding error", implying that they are minimal and insignificant. The lack of those bonuses will have minimal impact on a player's game.

 

If you do not want to find the datacrons again, then don't. Those who choose not to find the datacrons on a specific character should expect and be willing to do without those stat bonuses on that character, not expect to have them for no other reason than "I did it x times on x characters".

[Duniss]

The datacrons are completely OPTIONAL. The bonuses have been called a "rounding error", implying that they are minimal and insignificant. The lack of those bonuses will have minimal impact on a player's game.

 

If you do not want to find the datacrons again, then don't. Those who choose not to find the datacrons on a specific character should expect and be willing to do without those stat bonuses on that character, not expect to have them for no other reason than "I did it x times on x characters".

Yea thats the point im not going to. I just gona wait for bw to add that perk or continue playing whiout them. As far as understand bw thinks that this would be a good adition to a game.