Revan vs Darth Maul

[Silenceo]

And yet...Sideous does NOT wipe the floor with Maul yet he loses? Please insert missing logic here.

I mean, we actually see Darth Maul fight Darth Sideous, and he lasts longer than all but Master Windu, and he has his special fighting style that allows him to use a sith's power against him. Darth Maul has no such special force enhancing style, yet he is still able to at least withstand Sideous's assault longer than most. Mind you, Sideous still seriously out classes Maul in force ability, but historically in Star Wars, Saber > Force in many battles. I am by no means saying Maul could kill Sideous, just reminding everyone that force power doesn't always equal instant win. Unless you are Sideous...he is basically the exception. The force is a great weapon, but a opponenent that is skilled with the blade, and has enough defenses to not instantly be crushed can often pull off a victory due to keeping his target off balance enough to be unable to focus for large force attacks.

 

If Revan was to get some big force attacks off, how deadly would they really be? From what I have seen sure he can use both sides of the force, but it seems more like he can only use the light and dark side abilities that are ordinary and wide spread. Granted, no other has been able to even use the simplest of both sides at the same time, but do remember that these powers are not that devastating. Lightning is nothing new to Maul, and if i remember right, he was subjected to it during his training under Sideous *i may have miss heard that part though, so don't quote me on that* as well as his agility that allows him to dodge out of the way of things that most can't even see.

 

The quote stating how looking at Revan was like looking at the heart of the force...comparatively Revan has not achieved that many feats of force strength, his strength is more of an inner strength. Some of them are impressive, but none of them that are just stomp worthy.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Silenceo

[Xakthul]

Revan is so OP that he could literally fry and eat Maul if he wanted to. In the novel (god, I hate referencing Karpyshyn), he's shown as having that stupid lightning ward (more than once, too). Pre-KOTOR Revan is supposed to have been the the second or third greatest duelist in his Jedi order, and so I'm assuming that he's even better post KOTOR, at his prime.

 

We're counting KOTOR as canon too, right? For Revan's Force feats, etc...

Edited November 27, 2013 by Xakthul

[JaydedHunter]

stuff.

 

Sidious wiped the floor with Maul too lol.

[Silenceo]

Wiped the floor is what Sideous did to the jedi strike team.

 

Had a fight is what he did with Darth Maul.

 

Mostly it is in the duration and the intensity of the fight that defines it.

 

While Maul was subdued in the end of his fight with Sideous by lightning, do remember that Darth Sideous's lightning is more powerful than any other sith lords. While Maul clearly lost that fight, he was not a push over, and it is common knowledge that Darth Sideous can rip through anybodies force defenses if he so chooses due to just how strong he is in the force. Revan does not have this advantage.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Silenceo

[RTCBrad]

Revan is top 5 powerful force users, and top 5 lightsaber duellist, Maul would get curb stomped.

 

It's like comparing a native to a guy with a machine g u n, no contest.

 

The novel never outright states that Revan is more powerful than Surik, the Revan fans just act like Revan and Nyriss actually had a fight, he caught her in mid move and acted as a conduit, redirecting her power back at her, she didnt even have time to raise her own Force Barriers, that is my interpretation on the battle, dont claim I am twisting events and then claim that your version is the obvious truth. Then we have other sources pointing to her being a heroine in her own right, not just some Revan's lackey as you seem to be suggesting.

 

Everyone followed Revan because he started the movement to disobey the Jedi Council, but you are heavily suggesting she just bowed to his every wish and was merely a companion, if you think that you clearly havent read much about her, the KotOR CG outright depicts a moment on the Leviathan when she confronts him and severs all ties with him because of his turn to the Dark Side, she completely acts on her own in the second half of the war, she was her own general, she commanded her own part of the Republic fleet, even the Revan novel supports the fact that she was her own general, not just one of Revan's second hand commanders like Alek was.

 

She won the battle of Dxun, she won the wars over Serroco, she won the battle of Malachor V, Revan wasn't even there for two of them and in the last he didnt even show up until the battle was already won and Revan went on to battle Mandalore himself.

 

I am sick of hearing about how the Exile was just Revan's follower and nothing more, did all of you completely and utterly miss the entire point of KotOR 2? the Exile becoming her own hero and coming to terms with her role in the war, she led the war against the Sith in the Dark Wars, she didnt follow Revan, she chose to go and rescue her friend, just because she looked up to him doesnt mean she is just another companion.

 

And wow, you are still trying to argue Meetra is better than Revan, even after he easily destroyed a sith that Meetra and Scourge were getting owned by at the same time. Some serious Revan denial on this forum honestly. Sometimes it's very clear cut, this is one of those times. Not saying I agree with how weak they made her, but they made her considerably weaker than Revan that's it deal with it.

Edited November 27, 2013 by RTCBrad

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wiped the floor is what Sideous did to the jedi strike team.

 

Had a fight is what he did with Darth Maul.

 

Mostly it is in the duration and the intensity of the fight that defines it.

 

While Maul was subdued in the end of his fight with Sideous by lightning, do remember that Darth Sideous's lightning is more powerful than any other sith lords. While Maul clearly lost that fight, he was not a push over, and it is common knowledge that Darth Sideous can rip through anybodies force defenses if he so chooses due to just how strong he is in the force. Revan does not have this advantage.

 

1st off, were using TPM Maul not TCW

 

2nd, Sidious was holding back in that fight.

 

Though you're right that Maul does outclass Revan in saber ability and reaction/speed combat ability. Though seeing as were using TPM Maul, he just has a few mediocre Force feats....at least offensive wise his TK is just "eh". He has shown other abilities, but they are rather "eh" too...at least at this point.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Selenial]

1st off, were using TPM Maul not TCW

 

2nd, Sidious was holding back in that fight.

 

Though you're right that Maul does outclass Revan in saber ability and reaction/speed combat ability. Though seeing as were using TPM Maul, he just has a few mediocre Force feats....at least offensive wise his TK is just "eh". He has shown other abilities, but they are rather "eh" too...at least at this point.

 

 

 

We are, and he wasn't.

 

Maul pulled a large shuttle off a cliff and crashed it halfway through a battle...

[Wolfninjajedi]

We are, and he wasn't.

 

Maul pulled a large shuttle off a cliff and crashed it halfway through a battle...

 

Oh did the OP change it? Well then alright..

 

But yes Sidious was.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[LadyKulvax]

Oh did the OP change it? Well then alright..

 

But yes Sidious was.

 

I thought the same but read the literary version, he clearly wasnt.

 

And wow, you are still trying to argue Meetra is better than Revan, even after he easily destroyed a sith that Meetra and Scourge were getting owned by at the same time. Some serious Revan denial on this forum honestly. Sometimes it's very clear cut, this is one of those times. Not saying I agree with how weak they made her, but they made her considerably weaker than Revan that's it deal with it.

 

Read this Not let's stop derailing this thread shall we.

Edited November 27, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[Wolfninjajedi]

I thought the same but read the literary version, he clearly wasnt.

 

You mean this?

 

The unmarked shuttle landed on the royal palace’s platform, reserved for Mandalore’s rulers and their most important advisers. The ramp lowered and a hooded figure in dark robes descended. The commandos rushing to intercept him reached for their throats, gagging, and the cloaked figure swept past them without a sideways glance, gaze fixed straight ahead.

 

The feeling had begun as a faint stirring in the Force, like the tiniest ripple of something moving slowly through deep water, far away but drawing steadily closer. It intensified, until it felt like the Force itself was roiling, heaving like the sea in the grip of an enormous storm.

 

“I sense a presence,” Maul warned Savage. “A presence I haven’t felt since...”

And then Maul knew.

“Master,” he said, leaning forward on the throne.

The commandos guarding the royal chamber reached for their throats. As Maul watched, an unseen forced lifted them high in the air, then slammed them to the floor, where they lay motionless in their red-and-black armor. The doors opened, then closed behind a figure in dark robes. A deep cowl hid most of the face, leaving only a pale chin and a downturned mouth visible. To most eyes the man in those simple robes of rough cloth was unremarkable, just another being making his way in the universe. But to those who could feel the Force he was anything but ordinary. To them, he was a dark sun blazing with power that was simultaneously hypnotizing and terrifying to behold.

 

Darth Sidious, the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith, had come to Mandalore.

Savage stared at the new arrival in astonishment, transfixed by the sight. Maul felt himself leap from the throne, mechanical legs clacking down the steps and toward his old Master. The motion was almost automatic, involuntary. Maul’s earliest memories were of that hooded figure—his tests, his teachings, and also his torments. He had been Maul’s father, his protector, his torturer. He had been everything.

Maul halted before Sidious and kneeled, bowing his head.

“Master,” he said simply.

Sidious stopped. For a moment all was silent.

 

“I am most impressed to see you have survived your injuries,” he said, the voice as rough and cracked as Maul remembered.

“I used your training, Master,” Maul said. “And I have built all of this in hopes of returning to your side.”

Sidious lifted his head slightly, and Maul saw his yellow eyes beneath the hood. They were as cold as space.

“How unfortunate that you are attempting to deceive me,” Sidious said.

“Master?” Maul asked.

“You have become a rival,” Sidious declared.

 

He raised his arms and both Maul and Savage flew through the air, smashing into the elegantly patterned walls of the royal chamber and crashing to the floor. Maul sprang to his feet and ignited his lightsaber. Savage did the same. The two Zabraks stared grimly at the hooded figure. Sidious retrieved a pair of elegant-looking lightsabers from within the depths of his robes and ignited them. The blades turned his pale face a hellish red.

 

Maul and Savage didn’t waste time seeking an advantageous position. They simply charged, blades shimmering, trying to overpower Sidious with the animal ferocity of their attack. Sidious caught their sabers on his, the weapons howling and crackling where they touched. Maul saw that Savage was startled by the seemingly frail man’s enormous strength.

 

Maul stared at his Master’s face. He saw the strain as Sidious called upon the Force to keep the brothers at bay. But there was something else there, too—a terrible pleasure. Sidious began to grin.

The three-pronged duel between Sidious, and Maul and Savage had moved, like some deadly ballet, from the throne room to the steps of the palace. Sidious’s lightsabers twirled swiftly and elegantly, turning aside the furious blows Maul and Savage rained down upon him as the three Sith leapt and spun.

 

Maul had fought his Master many times, starting when he was little more than a child and continuing through his apprenticeship. His body bore innumerable scars from those duels—lessons in the peril of being too slow or two quick, too weak or too distracted. During Maul’s apprenticeship he had always known that Sidious had been willing to kill him. The Sith had not survived their centuries of exile by being sentimental, and a student who couldn’t stand against his Master in a mere training exercise was worse than useless—he was a waste of valuable resources better used elsewhere.

 

But Maul had never faced his Master when he was actually trying to kill him.

Maul had grown more powerful since the last time he’d been in Sidious’s presence, before the Neimoidian invasion of Naboo had turned disastrous and Obi-Wan had bested him inside the Theed power core. His hermitage on Lotho Minor, his lessons on Unbara, his restoration by Mother Talzin, and his training of Savage had all strengthened him, made him a more worthy vessel for the dark side to fill with its power.

 

But strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious. The Sith Lord was astonishingly fast and efficient, and the Force flowed through him effortlessly. His sabers stabbed and slashed through the smallest hole in an opponent’s guard, his movements never carried him a millimeter out of position, and he could sense every attack Maul and Savage made before it developed.

 

Maul tried to slash past Sidious’s guard, only to find his Master had given ground, causing Maul to extend his arms too far and leave himself slightly unbalanced. It was the smallest stumble, easily corrected, but Sidious saw it—and pounced before Maul could draw himself back. Snarling, he reached out with the Force and slammed Maul against the wall, leaving him lying stunned in a heap.

 

Savage knew the dangers of facing the Sith Lord alone, and pressed his attack before Sidious draw his hand back from Force-shoving Maul into the wall. Teeth bared, Savage windmilled his double saber, hoping to disarm Sidious or force him to give ground. If he did, that would allow the yellow-and-black Zabrak to follow his initial attack with a lightning-quick thrust that would penetrate Sidious’s defenses and wound or even kill him.

 

Maul tried to shake off his attack, rocketing up from the floor. Sidious neatly side-stepped Savage’s assault, drawing back as the massive Zabrak raised his double-bladed saber high to try to pummel him with it. Savage didn’t think Sidious was fast enough to take advantage of the brief opening in his defenses, but he was wrong.

Sidious rammed one of his blades through Savage’s black armor, the glowing crimson tip of the saber appearing between his shoulder blades. Savage gasped, his saber tumbling from his grasp. Sidious yanked his weapon back and Savage seemed to hang suspended for a moment, as if he were being levitated by with the Force. Then he crashed to the ground.

 

Sidious stepped back as Maul rushed to his fallen brother’s side. A mist seemed to rise from Savage’s body, emerging from his wounds and then from his eyes, ears, nose, and mouth. As Maul and Sidious watched, Savage’s horns shrank and the massive bands of muscle melted away from his chest and shoulders. The last misty remnants of Mother Talzin’s magic grew hazy and tattered, then dispersed and vanished, leaving the dying Savage lying in the shell of his now-oversized armor.

 

His eyes turned to Maul.

“Brother, I am an unworthy apprentice,” Savage said. “I am not like you. I never was.”

He took a last breath and lay still.

Maul looked up, saber in his grasp, and stared into Darth Sidious’s blazing eyes.

“Remember the first and only reality of the Sith,” Sidious said. “There can only be two, and you are no longer my apprentice. You have been replaced.”

 

Sidious raised his saber and flew at Maul, who parried desperately, his mechanical legs whirring as he sought to counter his former Master’s blows. Sidious’s sabers were a blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that.

 

Maul’s saber spun out of his hand, bouncing away across the floor. Then Sidious seized his former apprentice with the Force, hurling him against the wall. Maul’s vision swam. He tried to get up, but realized he was already in the air, held aloft by the Force. Sidious slammed him into the floor. Then Maul was off the ground again, legs kicking for purchase in empty air. He could taste blood in his mouth. His head hit the wall with a sickening crunch.

A rhyme crept into his head, a nagging sing-song bit of poetry.

 

Far above, far above,

We don’t know where we’ll fall.

Far above, far above.

What once was great is rendered small.

 

Maul could no longer remember where he had heard it, or what it meant. He was broken, helpless, useless.

“No,” Maul heard himself gasp. “Have mercy. Please...”

“There is no mercy,” Sidious said.

 

Bolts of energy ripped out from the Sith Lord’s fingers, tendrils of brilliant blue and purple that danced across Maul’s tattooed skin and ripped through his muscles, his organs. His mechanical legs convulsed, shorting out.

“You belong to me,” Sidious said. “Your existence is now perfectly meaningless.”

He stretched out his fingers and the energy tore through Maul again. Sidious watched the lightning build in intensity, his eyes unblinking, his teeth gritted in a triumphant, terrible smile.

 

Because....at the end, Sidious increases his speed and so forth overwhelming Maul, he was holding back on that, as shown here.

 

Sidious raised his saber and flew at Maul, who parried desperately, his mechanical legs whirring as he sought to counter his former Master’s blows. Sidious’s sabers were a blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that.

 

Maul’s saber spun out of his hand, bouncing away across the floor. Then Sidious seized his former apprentice with the Force, hurling him against the wall.

 

Am I saying it's not an impressive feat for Maul? No, but Sidious was clearly holding back against the two when he could have just blitzed and cut them apart with his speed and saber strikes.

 

Hell I don't even think Revan would be able to keep up with Sidious' speed before he started going faster in this duel anyway. So it's still impressive for Maul to do that.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[LadyKulvax]

You mean this?

 

 

 

Because....at the end, Sidious increases his speed and so forth overwhelming Maul, he was holding back on that, as shown here.

 

 

 

Am I saying it's not an impressive feat for Maul? No, but Sidious was clearly holding back against the two when he could have just blitzed and cut them apart with his speed and saber strikes.

 

Hell I don't even think Revan would be able to keep up with Sidious' speed before he started going faster in this duel anyway. So it's still impressive for Maul to do that.

 

Hmm good point, but I don't believe he was toying with them, this was clearly still an epic duel, Sidious likely didn't want to exert so much Dark Side power because that attracts a certain order's attention, even more so considering they were scouring the galaxy for him the entire time.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Hmm good point, but I don't believe he was toying with them, this was clearly still an epic duel, Sidious likely didn't want to exert so much Dark Side power because that attracts a certain order's attention, even more so considering they were scouring the galaxy for him the entire time.

 

Toying with them? Perhaps not, why would he? Hold back though? Yes.

[Aurbere]

Sidious wasn't toying with them, but the written account seems to indicate that he was holding back. A similar situation can be seen with the duels between Yoda and Dooku.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Anyway moving on with this, seeing as were going with TCW Maul now(I guess..) I can say he could win this better. Edited November 27, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Selenial]

One last point, the mere fact that Sidious had to exert his power is evidence of Mauls skills...

[Beniboybling]

One last point, the mere fact that Sidious had to exert his power is evidence of Mauls skills...

This, and good point about speed Wolf - however I don't think its ground to assume that he'll be too fast for Revan to handle given the fact that Revan is considerably more powerful than him.

 

Both Kenobi and Jinn after all were able to hold him off for like fifteen minutes.

[Wolfninjajedi]

This, and good point about speed Wolf - however I don't think its ground to assume that he'll be too fast for Revan to handle given the fact that Revan is considerably more powerful than him.

 

Both Kenobi and Jinn after all were able to hold him off for like fifteen minutes.

 

Yes together they were able to hold their own, but once they got separated you saw them falter. But that's TPM Maul, TCW is a whole other story.

[Beniboybling]

Yes together they were able to hold their own, but once they got separated you saw them falter. But that's TPM Maul, TCW is a whole other story.

Qui-Gon Jinn did most of the leg work and had him on the back foot the whole time (though of course Maul was leading him into a trap) and altogether didn't properly falter until the trap was sprung. And then Obi-Wan when and blitzed on the guy and cut his saber in half.

 

And of course while TCW Maul is more powerful, so is Revan in comparison to Kenobi and Jinn.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Qui-Gon Jinn did most of the leg work and had him on the back foot the whole time (though of course Maul was leading him into a trap) and altogether didn't properly falter until the trap was sprung. And then Obi-Wan when and blitzed on the guy and cut his saber in half.

 

And of course while TCW Maul is more powerful, so is Revan in comparison to Kenobi and Jinn.

 

Eh...Padawan Obi-Wan? Yes, ROTS Obi-Wan? Not so sure Revan is more powerful then that version.

 

As for Qui-Gon...perhaps, but mostly cause I can't really find anything in regards to what the Jedi Master is capable of other than one thing.

[Beniboybling]

...historically in Star Wars, Saber > Force in many battles.

Well actually I can't think of a single instance when that has been the case... yet quite a few where the opposite has been true. For example:

 

Darth Bane vs Kas'im, Darth Bane vs Darth Zannah, Galen Marek vs Darth Vader, Marek vs Shaak Ti, Baas vs Kun (the latter as a Padawan), Darth Malgus vs Kao Cen Darach, Anakin Skywalker vs Count Dooku, Ventress vs Unduli, Savage Oppress vs everyone, Yoda vs Palpatine... I could go on.

[Beniboybling]

Eh...Padawan Obi-Wan? Yes, ROTS Obi-Wan? Not so sure Revan is more powerful then that version.

 

As for Qui-Gon...perhaps, but mostly cause I can't really find anything in regards to what the Jedi Master is capable of other than one thing.

I'm speaking strictly in terms of the Force.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I'm speaking strictly in terms of the Force.

 

Ya so am I.

[Beniboybling]

Ya so am I.

Then yoosa craaaazzzy.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Then yoosa craaaazzzy.

 

Why's that?

 

Edit: Wait, actually they have roughly comparability so I would say they are equal in terms of Force ability.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Why's that?

 

Edit: Wait, actually they have roughly comparability so I would say they are equal in terms of Force ability.

Because Revan's showings in the Force vastly surpass that of Kenobi's?

 

There is a reason why he didn't make the REAL Most Powerful Jedi list and Revan did.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Beniboybling