The Infinite Empire vs. The Galatic Empire

[Beniboybling]

That is only the Interdictor class vessels, they still had the Republic fleet and other vessels to make up the rest of their navy.

I don't know, we never actually see them. Its more than likely they were simply discontinued and scrapped in favour of superior models...

 

Which itself is a testament to how quickly the Star Forge can produce.

 

Though we should consider that the Star Forge is unlikely to be their only ship building facility, and they would of course have a standing naval force, though we can only guess at the numbers.

[LadyKulvax]

I don't know, we never actually see them. Its more than likely they were simply discontinued and scrapped in favour of superior models...

 

Which itself is a testament to how quickly the Star Forge can produce.

 

Though we should consider that the Star Forge is unlikely to be their only ship building facility, and they would of course have a standing naval force, though we can only guess at the numbers.

 

The canon itself states that Darth Revan arrived at the head of a massive invasion fleet, it was two thirds of the entire Republic navy combined with ships built from the Star Forge, they were equally as powerful as the Republic's vessels, because obviously they used the same ships, I see no reason they'd just dump them.

[Beniboybling]

The canon itself states that Darth Revan arrived at the head of a massive invasion fleet, it was two thirds of the entire Republic navy combined with ships built from the Star Forge, they were equally as powerful as the Republic's vessels, because obviously they used the same ships, I see no reason they'd just dump them.

*shurg* Perhaps at the start but at least in KOTOR we see no Republic vessels. And ships were discontinued all the time, remembering that the vessels could be scrap for materials.

 

However when the Empire came to power they did just abandon many Venators...

[Aurbere]

*shurg* Perhaps at the start but at least in KOTOR we see no Republic vessels. And ships were discontinued all the time, remembering that the vessels could be scrap for materials.

 

However when the Empire came to power they did just abandon many Venators...

 

Well, how often do we see fleets in KOTOR?

[AlexDougherty]

Well, how often do we see fleets in KOTOR?

 

Three times, once above Taris, once when they capture Revan, and Once at the End.

Two fleets in Kotor 2, once at Onderon, and once when you lead the Mandaloreans to defeat Darth Nihilus.

 

Not that this proves anything, space is big, and even the largest fleet is relatively small.

[fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg]

I think we should be careful to make such broad assumptions about the Infinite Empire when we possess such little information on them, especially given the fact that what little information we have indicates the opposite.

 

The Infinite Empire technologically inferior? Is that not a contradiction in terms in itself? In terms of hyperspace technology perhaps but did the Empire ever discover have to terraform worlds? How to create factories of endless mass production? To create entirely new species? The Rakata were incredibly advanced and most of the Empire's technology originates from them, but fails to achieve their lofty heights. We cannot assume that they are simply a race of savages with a few flashy factories. All their technology is Force-based and because of that I'd assume it to be superior to anything non-force based and extremely potent when applied aggressively.

 

We know that they were armed with Force based energy shields and energy weapons which likely had similar properties to a lightsaber, and this was standard armament. And likely impenetrable via standard blaster technology. On top of that they could create laser beams out of the stuff, and I expect that was incredibly potent as well and significantly superior to any heavy weaponry the Empire had. And again this is standard armament, or so its implied. How do you feel an army of Force empowered beings all armed with effective lightsabers and impenetrable energy shields would fare against stormtroopers? I'd say they turn them into chopped liver, and then some.

 

Outside the scope of personal weaponry, we know the Rakata had planet destroying technology. And we know that they were powerful enough to imprison monsters such as the World Razer, and according to the Kwa were responsible for the downfall of the Celestials. The all powerful god like beings who could move star systems, the beings who the Rakata inherited technology from. A tenth of their power would be enough to rival the Empire, but clearly the Rakata had a lot more than that if the Celestials believed them a threat and were eventually proven right.

 

Now concerning Force sensitivity, I'd be interested to know where this concept originates that they were at all 'weak' in the Force when all evidence indicates they were in fact very powerful. One needs to be strong in the Force to be able to have every piece of one's technology sustained by it. And if immensely powerful beings such as Soa are any indication they were very strong indeed. Some more than others no doubt but overall likely superior to the average Force adept of the Empire, and I'm sure many could more than challenge Vader, Soa certainly could.

 

So what do we have here? A empire comprised entirely of powerful Force users armed with Force-based energy shields and practical lightsabers with technology so incredibly advanced that much of the Empire regarded it to be fabricated myth and possessing enough strength to destroy the most powerful race of beings the galaxy ever knew.

 

I'd say they have a pretty good chance against the Empire, I'd say they'd win.

I think he has you empire supporters there! Ouch:p

[Aurbere]

I think he has you empire supporters there! Ouch:p

 

Not really. He forgot to cover some things (topics that are being "resolved" in other posts).

[Beniboybling]

Not really. He forgot to cover some things (topics that are being "resolved" in other posts).

 

EDIT: No but really, this could well turn out to be like Reapers vs Everyone (accept the Reapers win) or the Vong invasion. They could very well be that much superior in terms of technology, and Force power.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Beniboybling

[AlexDougherty]

 

EDIT: No but really, this could well turn out to be like Reapers vs Everyone (accept the Reapers win) or the Vong invasion. They could very well be that much superior in terms of technology, and Force power.

 

My personal feeling is that while on the whole their Technology is superior, Rakata Tech has exploitable weaknesses, and that it would be much closer than anyone can imagine (as much as you can say that about imaginary technology levels) and extremely unpredictable.

[SyberJedi]

I would need more information on the Infinite Empire before I could make the call on this one.

[Marahtar]

I think one thing has yet to be noted on and that is that as powerful and amazing and both Empires were they were destroyed by far inferior forces, the only reason for this ( reaching back into my long lost star wars memory banks old nerd here) could be that it was the will of the living force and while each was in power the nature of the force and the galaxy was out of balance. so logically if the two were too fight (in some weird break in the time space continuum) it would be the will of the force who would win.

[Wolfninjajedi]

A question OP but does the GE have their named people and such, or is it just the nameless people vs nameless people?

 

On a note should everyone recall, the OR fleet did well against the Rakata fleet near the Starforge in Kotor 1 when Bastila's battle meditation went down, so I wouldn't say that

 

Rakata ships > All other ships

 

Now I know what you're thinking

 

"But it's said that the fleet was in disarray!"

 

Which yes...not the point though, point being is they were only destroying the OR fleet when they were enhanced by Bastila's battle meditation.

 

Which brings the point of, how good was the fleet without said amp?

Edited November 20, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

I think one thing has yet to be noted on and that is that as powerful and amazing and both Empires were they were destroyed by far inferior forces, the only reason for this ( reaching back into my long lost star wars memory banks old nerd here) could be that it was the will of the living force and while each was in power the nature of the force and the galaxy was out of balance. so logically if the two were too fight (in some weird break in the time space continuum) it would be the will of the force who would win.

Well, the Rakata where defeated by a disease so...

[Beniboybling]

A question OP but does the GE have their named people and such, or is it just the nameless people vs nameless people?

 

On a note should everyone recall, the OR fleet did well against the Rakata fleet near the Starforge in Kotor 1 when Bastila's battle meditation went down, so I wouldn't say that

 

Rakata ships > All other ships

 

Now I know what you're thinking

 

"But it's said that the fleet was in disarray!"

 

Which yes...not the point though, point being is they were only destroying the OR fleet when they were enhanced by Bastila's battle meditation.

 

Which brings the point of, how good was the fleet without said amp?

Lets also consider that these weren't Rakata ships, they simply had Rakatan tech incorporated into their design. Rakatan ships are likely even better.

 

Indeed anyone who upgrades their gear with Rakata tech always gets a considerable edge it seems.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Lets also consider that these weren't Rakata ships, they simply had Rakatan tech incorporated into their design. Rakatan ships are likely even better.

 

Indeed anyone who upgrades their gear with Rakata tech always gets a considerable edge it seems.

 

Ok but what are the Rakatan ships?.....Because what I have looked up....their ships are incredibly vague.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Ok but what are the Rakatan ships?.....Because what I have looked up....their ships are incredibly vague.

Well, we don't really know. This is all speculation really.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well, we don't really know. This is all speculation really.

 

So then how are we suppose to say that the Rakata are better then everyone else then, if it's all speculation? Anyone could just come and pull **** outta their *** and say what is what!

[Beniboybling]

So then how are we suppose to say that the Rakata are better then everyone else then, if it's all speculation? Anyone could just come and pull **** outta their *** and say what is what!

Its called theory.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Its called theory.

 

That's no fun! I deal in facts, not theories! <<.....Am sure that is a quote from something.

[Aurbere]

The only Rakatan ships that I'm aware of are skipships the Rakata used to span the galaxy. The Essential Guide to Warfare makes mention of these ships possessing disruptor fields to 'devastate worlds.'

[Beniboybling]

The only Rakatan ships that I'm aware of are skipships the Rakata used to span the galaxy. The Essential Guide to Warfare makes mention of these ships possessing disruptor fields to 'devastate worlds.'

Well I found this on Wookieepedia.

 

It says they are equipped with energy weapons... anyone thinking what I'm thinking.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well considering all I could find were

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rakatan_ship

 

Those and one of them was sabotaged....not sure how durable they would hold. But seeing as Aurbere said they could "devastate worlds" then...

 

Of course Aurbere when they say "devastate worlds" are they speaking of destroying it? Or are they speaking of like a Base Delta Zero?

 

Do the ships have anything else going for them? Armor? Weapons? Equipment?

Edited November 21, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Well considering all I could find were

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rakatan_ship

 

Those and one of them was sabotaged....not sure how durable they would hold. But seeing as Aurbere said they could "devastate worlds" then...

 

Of course Aurbere when they say "devastate worlds" are they speaking of destroying it? Or are they speaking of like a Base Delta Zero?

 

Do the ships have anything else going for them? Armor? Weapons? Equipment?

 

It's very vague. It just says that they devastated worlds with disruptor fields, but even that is vague because the book was listing what they did to take over the galaxy. It didn't actually say that their ships used disruptor fields.

[Wolfninjajedi]

It's very vague. It just says that they devastated worlds with disruptor fields, but even that is vague because the book was listing what they did to take over the galaxy. It didn't actually say that their ships used disruptor fields.

 

So then were back to square one on their fleets....

 

Now what about ground units/tech?

Edited November 21, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[AlexDougherty]

Well considering all I could find were

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rakatan_ship

 

Those and one of them was sabotaged....not sure how durable they would hold. But seeing as Aurbere said they could "devastate worlds" then...

 

Of course Aurbere when they say "devastate worlds" are they speaking of destroying it? Or are they speaking of like a Base Delta Zero?

 

Do the ships have anything else going for them? Armor? Weapons? Equipment?

 

Didn't Kotor say they turned the surface of Tattooine (which had been a forest world) into glass via orbital bombardment, which was why Tattooine metals were flawed in some inexplicable way. That would indicate a level of technology at least on par with Palpatine's fleet, possibly higher since the deterioration of Metal on Tattooine could be nano-tech or residue of some sort of molecular disintegrator.

 

Troop wise, they left behind robots that were capable of limited self-reasoning, and armed with functioning blaster type weapons, and these had had no maintainence for centuries. I think it's safe to assume they kept the best robots with them, and with regular maintainence they would be superior to the robots of Palpatine's era. Of course this is an assumption, and I will safely bow out to more accurate information.