Saber wielders game mechanics too punishing.

[Chaffery]

Started levling guardian and amount of knock backs, especially in Flashpoints is absolutely ridiculous.

 

That makes Vanguard in to best tank on Rep side, because Shadows also suffer from same mechanics.

What about balancing game mechanics that saber wielders game play wouldn't be so annoying and punishing?

 

I bet that Imp side mirror classes suffer from same annoyances.

Why intentionally harass peoples, it is stupid? Saber wielders too popular? Hey it is the Star Wars lore.

[ImpactHound]

Started levling guardian and amount of knock backs, especially in Flashpoints is absolutely ridiculous.

 

That makes Vanguard in to best tank on Rep side, because Shadows also suffer from same mechanics.

What about balancing game mechanics that saber wielders game play wouldn't be so annoying and punishing?

 

I bet that Imp side mirror classes suffer from same annoyances.

Why intentionally harass peoples, it is stupid? Saber wielders too popular? Hey it is the Star Wars lore.

 

I don't play force characters, so pardon my ignorance. Which advanced class or talent specializations allows the melee force users to force leap or teleport back to melee range, or pull the enemy back in range?

[gorstram]

I don't play force characters, so pardon my ignorance. Which advanced class or talent specializations allows the melee force users to force leap or teleport back to melee range, or pull the enemy back in range?

 

The only thing I can think of is the speed boost, post Storm, while the VG is getting hit. And if that is what the OP is worried about, let's not forget saber reflect for AoE aggro (if the mobs are ranged), saber throw, Awe to give the tank a moment to control the adds to get force sweep and cyclone slash. Guardians have a lot of tools at their disposal.

 

Now I don't play assassin/shadow so I can't speak to any of that, but I have extensive play knowledge of the Guardian and VG and I haven't had many issues with knockback impeding my ability to hold aggro with either advanced class.

Edited November 4, 2013 by gorstram

[Chaffery]

Mobs who have instant knock back are tuned for experienced players, don't expect that reaction in leveling FP's.

Guardian has few skills to stop casting and stun but because mob reaction is almost instant, my Force Kick misses time to time.

Also it depends from latency, currently reaction is very short, increasing a bit wouldn't hurt.

[gorstram]

Mobs who have instant knock back are tuned for experienced players, don't expect that reaction in leveling FP's.

Guardian has few skills to stop casting and stun but because mob reaction is almost instant, my Force Kick misses time to time.

Also it depends from latency, currently reaction is very short, increasing a bit wouldn't hurt.

 

Maybe if you could give some examples of the mobs you're referring to, we can give you some advice on how to deal with them.

[AlexDougherty]

I haven't finished the Guardian or done juggernaut yet, but the saber mechanics for sentinel and marauder are fine, very easy to get a good rotation going, it's just that with those two you have to hit hard and kill the enemy quickly.

 

The problem isn't the mechanics exactly, it's just that the saber weilding tanks don't do enough damage, which I think is a balance consideration.

[Chaffery]

Maybe if you could give some examples of the mobs you're referring to, we can give you some advice on how to deal with them.

 

Ok Cadeimu, Taral V droids, they have most annoying knock backs. Now I will be doing only Taral, till I can start doing Maelstrom.

[Chaffery]

I haven't finished the Guardian or done juggernaut yet, but the saber mechanics for sentinel and marauder are fine, very easy to get a good rotation going, it's just that with those two you have to hit hard and kill the enemy quickly.

 

The problem isn't the mechanics exactly, it's just that the saber weilding tanks don't do enough damage, which I think is a balance consideration.

Try tanking.

[mithrelkhaar]

Started levling guardian and amount of knock backs, especially in Flashpoints is absolutely ridiculous.

 

That makes Vanguard in to best tank on Rep side, because Shadows also suffer from same mechanics.

What about balancing game mechanics that saber wielders game play wouldn't be so annoying and punishing?

 

I bet that Imp side mirror classes suffer from same annoyances.

Why intentionally harass peoples, it is stupid? Saber wielders too popular? Hey it is the Star Wars lore.

 

Gotta say i disagree with this.

 

Having a Jedi Guardian, Jedi Shadow, Jedi Sentinel, and the other classes(and their imp counterparts) i don't find the game mechanics overly punishing towards melee. Knockbacks are part of most MMOs as far as mechanics go, and melee have to deal with this.

[gorstram]

I haven't finished the Guardian or done juggernaut yet, but the saber mechanics for sentinel and marauder are fine, very easy to get a good rotation going, it's just that with those two you have to hit hard and kill the enemy quickly.

 

The problem isn't the mechanics exactly, it's just that the saber weilding tanks don't do enough damage, which I think is a balance consideration.

 

I'd go even further and say that threat generation needs to be worked on. I think the devs missed an opportunity when they placed too much weight on the taunt mechanic. In most mmo's, taunt and it's AoE variant are supposed to be "Oh crap" buttons. What I would like to see is a bump in the threat of all abilities, and have guard not reduce the threat of the target by 25%, but GIVE that threat to the tank. This way, the DPS is helping the tank hold aggro on a mob.

 

As for the guardian tank, they can do some pretty decent damage with master strike, guardian strike. But the issue is multi-target threat, which can be pretty tough when cyclone slash eats up so much resources.

[Andryah]

Gotta say i disagree with this.

 

Having a Jedi Guardian, Jedi Shadow, Jedi Sentinel, and the other classes(and their imp counterparts) i don't find the game mechanics overly punishing towards melee. Knockbacks are part of most MMOs as far as mechanics go, and melee have to deal with this.

 

Agree with this assessment.

 

Knockbacks are short range with rare exceptions.

 

If you are the tank and get knocked back and have agro like you are supposed to.. the mob will follow you unless it is ranged. Most knockbacks are from ranged damage mobs though. If it's ranged...you simply move back into melee range.

 

If you get knocked back and do not have agro.. your move back in (or leap if you have that kind of skill) and re-engage. If you don't know how to do this by level 15.. no hope for you IMO.

 

Are knockbacks annoying? Yes. Are they common in today's MMOs? yes. Are they easy to overcome? Yes. If you are a tank that wants to lock your feet in place and hold your ground.. does it mean more work for you? Yes.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

I'd go even further and say that threat generation needs to be worked on.

 

I do agree that they need to improve threat generation mechanics. Either that.. or they did it on purpose to keep tanks on their toes and the rest of the group as well.

[Chaffery]

Are knockbacks annoying? Yes. Are they common in today's MMOs? yes. Are they easy to overcome? Yes. If you are a tank that wants to lock your feet in place and hold your ground.. does it mean more work for you? Yes.

This is the reason why so many saying that PC is dead, devs putting way too much sadism in to games and peoples refuse play them. That's why WoW is still unbeaten, because it has very good mechanics. At least till ICC, don't know what happen after that with raids.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Chaffery

[Chaffery]

I can read between lanes that it is mostly L2P, no.

So guardian to lv51 that I can run expansion crew missions and I'll be tanking with vanguard.

For me glowing sticks are not "must have".

That is all, thanks for attention.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Chaffery

[lpope]

I'd go even further and say that threat generation needs to be worked on. I think the devs missed an opportunity when they placed too much weight on the taunt mechanic. In most mmo's, taunt and it's AoE variant are supposed to be "Oh crap" buttons. What I would like to see is a bump in the threat of all abilities, and have guard not reduce the threat of the target by 25%, but GIVE that threat to the tank. This way, the DPS is helping the tank hold aggro on a mob.

 

As for the guardian tank, they can do some pretty decent damage with master strike, guardian strike. But the issue is multi-target threat, which can be pretty tough when cyclone slash eats up so much resources.

 

I tank a lot on all three ACs, and holding aggro on mobs and bosses is pretty easy. Only rarely do I lose threat and that is when we do aoe nukes to trash mobs. In those cases, you coordinate with your other tank on taunts. So from my perspective the threat generation doesn't need tweaked in either direction. And I only really use taunts after my first opening rotation on a OPS boss, in tank swap mechanics or in the few rare instances a trash mob gets loose.

 

Genearlly, if tanks are losing aggro then one or more of the following is true:

• Tank isn't doing an optimal threat rotation
  
• DPS vastly overgears the tank
  
• Tank isn't using attack adrenals in opening rotation
  
• High DPS isn't being guarded
  
• Tank needs to increase his accuracy (a lot of tanks shun accuracy, I personally like having some for the aggro gen)
  

 

I will admit changing guard to transfer 25% from a dps to a tank would be an interesting mechanic change, but I don't see the need.

 

Now, I will say knockbacks are annoying and quite frankly, they are really overdone. I'd rather the devs take some of the knockback abilities and change them to stuns and interrupts. Or perhaps they can come up with other mechanics that are more creative. My first thought heading into a mob / boss fight for a new operation should not be "Where are the solid walls / pillars / etc, so that I don't get knocked around".

[Cordarn]

Started levling guardian and amount of knock backs, especially in Flashpoints is absolutely ridiculous.

 

That makes Vanguard in to best tank on Rep side, because Shadows also suffer from same mechanics.

What about balancing game mechanics that saber wielders game play wouldn't be so annoying and punishing?

 

I bet that Imp side mirror classes suffer from same annoyances.

Why intentionally harass peoples, it is stupid? Saber wielders too popular? Hey it is the Star Wars lore.

 

Your judging tanking ability from knock backs? its a knock back get over it. Personally I prefer a guardian tank over a vanguard.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Cordarn

[Spatology]

Isn't there some spec you get immunity to CC after charge on juggs/guardians.

[Chaffery]

Your judging tanking ability from knock backs? its a knock back get over it. Personally I prefer a guardian tank over a vanguard.

I am comparing tanking quality to wasted time, vanguard does not have wasted time on running back, if leap is on CD.

And usually knock back has shorter distance than it is needed for leaping back, it is made so intentionally.

Someone in Bioware got in the hes head that if saber wielder then that player must be uber with kung-fu master reflexes.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Chaffery

[Chaffery]

Isn't there some spec you get immunity to CC after charge on juggs/guardians.

 

No charge yet but it is still short time, it is not enough kill golden elite droid, who spamming knock back every 20 or 30 seconds. Or maybe less, never timed knock back spams.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Chaffery

[Bowenator]

I am comparing tanking quality to wasted time, vanguard does not have wasted time on running back, if leap is on CD.

And usually knock back has shorter distance than it is needed for leaping back, it is made so intentionally.

Someone in Bioware got in the hes head that if saber wielder then that player must be uber with kung-fu master reflexes.

 

No one enjoys knockbacks. You could always open with a saber throw then leap after the knockback (which is typically right away on many mobs).

 

To paraphrase an infamous Bioware comment on another matter, "guardian tanking may require a higher skill level than many players are comfortable with."

 

I have all 3 tanks, and if you're looking for an easy experience, VGs/PTs are definitely the way to go.

[jedimasterjac]

With a 55 Vanguard, Assassin, and Juggernaut, I can assure you: Guardians/Juggernauts are greater than Vanguard. The knockbacks shouldn't be that detrimental.

[Chaffery]

No one enjoys knockbacks. You could always open with a saber throw then leap after the knockback (which is typically right away on many mobs).

 

To paraphrase an infamous Bioware comment on another matter, "guardian tanking may require a higher skill level than many players are comfortable with."

 

I have all 3 tanks, and if you're looking for an easy experience, VGs/PTs are definitely the way to go.

 

Lv33 guarian, still don't have saber throw and my friend who has lv33 sentinel, does have it, so I guess guardian has to live with out it.

When I soloing, then it is easy, first I send Kira and I leap in after knock back.

 

But Bioware comment, wondering why so few tanks, getting in to FP via group finder mostly takes max 5 seconds.

[Chaffery]

With a 55 Vanguard, Assassin, and Juggernaut, I can assure you: Guardians/Juggernauts are greater than Vanguard. The knockbacks shouldn't be that detrimental.

If honest, at lv33 I'm already so fed up, I even don't want try. Vanguard works fine for me, thanks to ranged tanking.

[BrianDavion]

Lv33 guarian, still don't have saber throw and my friend who has lv33 sentinel, does have it, so I guess guardian has to live with out it.

When I soloing, then it is easy, first I send Kira and I leap in after knock back.

 

But Bioware comment, wondering why so few tanks, getting in to FP via group finder mostly takes max 5 seconds.

 

you should have saber throw at that level i thought

Edited November 4, 2013 by BrianDavion

[Chaffery]

you should have saber throw at that level i thought

 

Then it is sentinel's stuff, been visiting trainer every level, unless I missed something.