Rail Shot on AP.... What is going on here?

[kaloonzu]

Okay, I'll get right down to the gist of it: I'm 95% certain that the autocrit we get with Advanced Prototype is broken. Now I'll elaborate.

 

I'm specced 8-36-2, you can look here (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZrsMMorRRkGGzZb.3). You can clearly see the autocrit is taken. So, for my stats: 30.56% tech crit chance, 29.50% range crit chance. RS is hitting for 2550-3010 on a typical hit. My surge is 65.2%. Here is what is happening (I tested this on Ops/Warzone dummies and in duels, just to be sure): my standard hit is doing anywhere between 2500-3000 damage on a typical hit. On an autocrit (which I know its doing, I parse)? 3700 TOPS. Anyone have any ideas? Is my basic understanding of how Surge works wrong? If I'm wrong, I'll shut up. But my guild mentor and I thought this was worth bringing to everyone's attention.

 

It should be worth noting that with this spec (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301bMZrkZfhrbdRrcfdz.3) my RS is critting for 4600-4800, and that is WAY higher than I would expect with my Surge rating, even including that 30% bonus critical damage I get from the skill tree.

[Iolus]

Are you hitting rocket punch to proc the autocrit? Edited October 26, 2013 by Iolus

[kaloonzu]

Yes, I'm using the RP autocrat proc. Am I misunderstanding how crit works? It does include ALL damage bonuses (power, aim bonus) in its calculations, right? From what you said Colors, it would seem so. Cant imagine hitting 5k without it.

[Iolus]

I just tested it and my RS crits above 5k with AP. Not sure whats going on.

[kaloonzu]

I just tested it and my RS crits above 5k with AP. Not sure whats going on.

 

Neither am I, and its beginning to irritate me. I tested again this morning, after a good right's sleep. There is definitely a disconnect between the math and the crit I'm hitting.

[Syberduh]

I assume you're not in ion cell?

[kaloonzu]

I assume you're not in ion cell?

 

No. I'm not on ion cell. I'm on hegc

[xXsgtstinkerXx]

Deleted...

 

Edit: RS doesn't hit for nearly as much in AP since not only do you get the extra 30% surge bonus in pyro, but you get an extra 9% total damage from the Rain of fire perk. As for the only hitting for 3700 tops maybe it's because your gear isn't the best? You have alot of crit in you gear so you must not have too much power and your surge rating is low. Like if you had say, 70% surge, you could expect a mid 4k hit from RS if it's hitting over 2550 in a non crit which is reasonable. Could you tell us some more of your stats like what is your tech bonus damage and what is your ranged primary damage? Also for pyro spec you'll want to take the 2 points out of power armor and put them into puncture. Then you'd see Railshots over the 5k range with your current surge.

Edited October 27, 2013 by xXsgtstinkerXx

[kaloonzu]

Deleted...

 

Edit: RS doesn't hit for nearly as much in AP since not only do you get the extra 30% surge bonus in pyro, but you get an extra 9% total damage from the Rain of fire perk. As for the only hitting for 3700 tops maybe it's because your gear isn't the best? You have alot of crit in you gear so you must not have too much power and your surge rating is low. Like if you had say, 70% surge, you could expect a mid 4k hit from RS if it's hitting over 2550 in a non crit which is reasonable. Could you tell us some more of your stats like what is your tech bonus damage and what is your ranged primary damage? Also for pyro spec you'll want to take the 2 points out of power armor and put them into puncture. Then you'd see Railshots over the 5k range with your current surge.

 

Its not that. I tested it another way: I removed all my gear. ALL of it. Then reequipped by blaster. So my stats were sitting at 51% surge and RS was doing 1488-1971 damage on a non crit (tested 20 times, that is the range). On an autocrit triggered by RP, I would do 1800-2200 damage. However, when I used Explosive Fuel to raise my crit (had to do this a few times, without gear, my crit rating is through the floor, as you would expect), I was critting for 2300 to 3000. So something is not being calculated right when RS autocrits off the RP proc. Also, to answer about my gear: I have not crit augs in my gear or crit relics. The only crit I have is from the gear, which ranges from 69-78 rated, no set bonus. Also, with that same gear, my RS is hitting 5.3k on a pyro spec, after I did as you suggested and maxed puncture.

 

All I can figure is that Tech Bonus Damage isn't being applied on an autocrit; if that number is subtracted, the numbers make sense, both from what they were last night, and when I tested again today. Remove, and the damage you do with the autocrit matches the math.

[Brunner_Venda]

Also make sure you take rail loaders under the tank tree. The rail shot auto crit shows up as a buff on your toolbar, make sure you see this when you fire rail shot. It only stays up there for a few seconds.

 

Another thing to try: dump all of your skills and respec.

Then switch to ion and then back to HEGC.

 

I had a bug once where HEGC wasn't venting heat right, and that fixed it.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Brunner_Venda

[kaloonzu]

Also make sure you take rail loaders under the tank tree. The rail shot auto crit shows up as a buff on your toolbar, make sure you see this when you fire rail shot. It only stays up there for a few seconds.

 

Another thing to try: dump all of your skills and respec.

Then switch to ion and then back to HEGC.

 

I had a bug once where HEGC wasn't venting heat right, and that fixed it.

 

1. I always take Rail Loaders, even when I'm rolled Shield Tech

2. I know it shows up as a buff, any my method of testing was simple RB -> RP -> RS, and I made sure the buff was there

3. I've done that. Multiple times. Had to so I could compare the damage done while specced Pyro. So while I didn't switch between IGC and HEGC, I DID switch between CGC and HEGC.

 

Edit: This sounded way snarkier than I intended. I do appreciate the response and thoughts. I'm going to buy some Surge augs either today or Tuesday, and see if the damage changes any. But a few other PTs and I agree that the Tech Bonus Damage isn't being applied on AP RP - RS autocrits.

Edited October 27, 2013 by kaloonzu

[Brunner_Venda]

At this point you need to file a ticket.

 

Something that works for everyone else is badly bugged on your toon.

[XisscVekno]

Okay, I'll get right down to the gist of it: I'm 95% certain that the autocrit we get with Advanced Prototype is broken. Now I'll elaborate.

 

I'm specced 8-36-2, you can look here (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZrsMMorRRkGGzZb.3). You can clearly see the autocrit is taken. So, for my stats: 30.56% tech crit chance, 29.50% range crit chance. RS is hitting for 2550-3010 on a typical hit. My surge is 65.2%. Here is what is happening (I tested this on Ops/Warzone dummies and in duels, just to be sure): my standard hit is doing anywhere between 2500-3000 damage on a typical hit. On an autocrit (which I know its doing, I parse)? 3700 TOPS. Anyone have any ideas? Is my basic understanding of how Surge works wrong? If I'm wrong, I'll shut up. But my guild mentor and I thought this was worth bringing to everyone's attention.

 

It should be worth noting that with this spec (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301bMZrkZfhrbdRrcfdz.3) my RS is critting for 4600-4800, and that is WAY higher than I would expect with my Surge rating, even including that 30% bonus critical damage I get from the skill tree.

 

 

I'm not sure in what level of gear you are in, but that screams the issue right there (bold/underlined area). I have 19% crit in 72/78 gear. my RS on a dummy hits for almost 5k with 68% surge. If I had to guess you have way to much crit fro AP. Every test I've done it was a DPS loss win I try and add crit. Also, RS in Pyro will always hit harder than in AP considering that in Pyro it has achance depending on telents to get 75% armor ignore vs 45%% in AP. Also Pyro and AP stat weights are very different. Where as iirc Pyro has no auto crit abilities, AP does as you well know. So with that crit isn't as high on the priority list for DPS increases.

[Laoi]

Its not that. I tested it another way: I removed all my gear. ALL of it. Then reequipped by blaster. So my stats were sitting at 51% surge and RS was doing 1488-1971 damage on a non crit (tested 20 times, that is the range). On an autocrit triggered by RP, I would do 1800-2200 damage. However, when I used Explosive Fuel to raise my crit (had to do this a few times, without gear, my crit rating is through the floor, as you would expect), I was critting for 2300 to 3000. So something is not being calculated right when RS autocrits off the RP proc. Also, to answer about my gear: I have not crit augs in my gear or crit relics. The only crit I have is from the gear, which ranges from 69-78 rated, no set bonus. Also, with that same gear, my RS is hitting 5.3k on a pyro spec, after I did as you suggested and maxed puncture.

 

All I can figure is that Tech Bonus Damage isn't being applied on an autocrit; if that number is subtracted, the numbers make sense, both from what they were last night, and when I tested again today. Remove, and the damage you do with the autocrit matches the math.

 

remove crit gear till ur down to ~25% crit chance, add surge till u hit 75% then just add aim and power as much as u can. DR on crit is so awfully early, anything past 25% is a pure waste of dps. my PT is sitting at 22% crit chance 74.33% surge 2200 aim. cant remember exact tech or ranged power atm but ranged is around 700 and tech 1000+. i can autocrit RS in AP for up to 5.5k on a normal target (ie. 2018 EXP) i havent played pyro for quite a while but im sure i could get up to 7k crits rather consistently. 5k RS crits as pyro is really low. i really dont see why u would wanna stack crit on a PT. explosive fuel is all the crit u need if u use it wisely.

[CriticalFlame]

Okay, I'll get right down to the gist of it: I'm 95% certain that the autocrit we get with Advanced Prototype is broken. Now I'll elaborate.

 

I'm specced 8-36-2, you can look here (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZrsMMorRRkGGzZb.3). You can clearly see the autocrit is taken. So, for my stats: 30.56% tech crit chance, 29.50% range crit chance. RS is hitting for 2550-3010 on a typical hit. My surge is 65.2%. Here is what is happening (I tested this on Ops/Warzone dummies and in duels, just to be sure): my standard hit is doing anywhere between 2500-3000 damage on a typical hit. On an autocrit (which I know its doing, I parse)? 3700 TOPS. Anyone have any ideas? Is my basic understanding of how Surge works wrong? If I'm wrong, I'll shut up. But my guild mentor and I thought this was worth bringing to everyone's attention.

 

It should be worth noting that with this spec (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301bMZrkZfhrbdRrcfdz.3) my RS is critting for 4600-4800, and that is WAY higher than I would expect with my Surge rating, even including that 30% bonus critical damage I get from the skill tree.

 

Pyro has a 75% to ignore a targets armour...So only natural RS crit hits harder with Pyro.

 

My RS crit with AP is around 5500, Surge rating around 72%