Please critique this hybrid build

[KingsGambit]

Hi all, I've not played SWTOR in a little over a year and even then was playing mostly Agent healer or Inquisitor tank. Now I'm playing republic side for a change and am around lvl 17 with my Vanguard. Part of me wishes I'd opted for the assault canon, but I've kinda had a specific idea in mind since a year ago and am now playing with the talent calc.

 

I realise that there have been numerous updates in this time and don't know what has changed. My aim was to have a Hybrid DPS Vanguard for levelling, a little PvP and Flashpoints and hope that it would be competitive in the endgame with hard modes/Ops. This build idea is what I've put together so far. I realise too that no build can be all things.

 

I've seen something similar played and liked the playstyle. The main aim was to be DPS, but with Storm in the build (did they move it on the tree? I could swear it was a lower tier). The main abilities used would be some rotation of Stock Strike, Imcendiary Round, High Impact Bolt, Ion Pulse and Explosive Surge with Plasma Cell active. Most of the talents chosen seem to improve these in terms of damage, crit chance and can proc instant cooldowns, DoTs, energy bonuses and other effects.

 

It obviously has slightly better survivability than straight up DPS but at the cost of at least 3 (or arguably, 5) wasted skill points. I'd love to hear any feedback about this build, particularly any shortcomings or things I've overlooked. Many thanks in advance.

[OlosBC]

With the recent changes to assault, this build doesn't really have any more survivability, as you would have to run it in assault cell to make use of those talents, and doing that, you wouldn't want a shield offhand. It has substantially less damage. All you gain is storm, which is nice, but not really worth that much.

 

If you want a "tanky" DPS, try running tactics in tank cell.

 

 

 

While leveling, just go full assault till you get the top tier skills. It blooms very early and is a very good spec at lower levels.

[unluckyperson]

this build hasn't been viable for a long time. They changed it so you can't benefit from a Ion Accelerator without having Plasma Cell on. In which case all those points past 8 that you put in the left tree are better spent elsewhere since all they give you is utility and not damage or mitigation for that matter (since you'll have to run Ion Cell with a shield to really benefit from things like static shield)

 

as the guy who posted above me said you might as well run a tactics build if you want to be more tanky.

Edited October 23, 2013 by unluckyperson

[ZillaElite]

Sigh....Miss those days of running Carolina Parakeet and Iron Fist...those were good days.

[CarlosTrevisan]

But with "static shield" you will be using much more stock strike (SS), and using more SS you will triguer more High Impact Bolt (HiB) since you have "ionic acelerator". This isnt worth?

Of course a full DPS assault three will be more effective, especialy if you pretend run Hard Modes or Operations. But i think this build will have good survival and better DPS than pure Tank. For a solo player and for leveling, this isnt a good build?

[unluckyperson]

But with "static shield" you will be using much more stock strike (SS), and using more SS you will triguer more High Impact Bolt (HiB) since you have "ionic acelerator". This isnt worth?

Of course a full DPS assault three will be more effective, especialy if you pretend run Hard Modes or Operations. But i think this build will have good survival and better DPS than pure Tank. For a solo player and for leveling, this isnt a good build?

 

Yes and no to the stockstrike thing. From the skill tree you get +4% shield chance, and if you're not running Ion Cell you only get 5% shield chance from having a shield. So if you're not running any shield chance at all you have a base +9% shield chance and half of the time when your shield pops up do you even get a reset on the stockstrike cooldown. Ion Cell gives +15% shield chance, bringing the total to +24% shield chance. Also Neural Overload doesn't work without Ion Cell (so if you're not using Ion Cell Neural overload is a wasted point).

 

So yes you'll be using it more because if you run Ion Cell you have a 12% potential chance to reset it. If you don't run Ion cell that potential chance is 4.5%. I say potential because if you dodge an attack you can't shield it.

 

Running Plasma Cell with Ion Accelerator ability allows you to guarantee that Ion Accelerator comes up within every 6 second period. So you can potentially use High Impact Bolt every 6-8 seconds depending on your global cooldowns. Without Plasma Cell on, Ion Accelerator doesn't work.

 

So you choose:

Potential 12% chance to reset stockstrike

 

or

 

Guaranteed HIB reset with potential 4.5% chance to reset stockstrike.

 

Also as far as survival it will have a much lower survivability than a pure tank because you're missing a lot of stuff like the 6 second absorption boost from Energy Blast.

 

From a damage standpoint you lose a lot of little bonuses here and there, and more importantly you lose 30% critical hit damage on Ion Pulse and High Impact bolt, which I think actually would impact your damage quite a bit, since you're hitting HIB every 6-8 seconds and Ion Pulse is used liberally as part of your rotation.

 

I cant say how much dps you will actually lose because I haven't tested it, but do keep in mind that you lose a lot of Tech Power switching from a Generator to a Shield.

 

The best thing about the build that was posted by the original poster is probably the fact that it has a gap closer for a dps. Yes I know hold the line can be used as a gap closer, but Storm is so much better than hold the line for most cases (being that you don't have to jump to someone in cover). The ability to jump to a second floor after being knocked off it is something about storm that is a bit better than Hold the Line. That utility though I personally don't think is worth 13 points, I say 13 because the first 8 points (2 brutal impact, 3 steely resolve, 3 Overcharged cell Capacitor) are abilities that directly help your damage. You could cut it down to 9 IF Static Field and Rebraced Armor give you enough extra uptime to be better than the where those 4 points would otherwise be spent.

Edited November 4, 2013 by unluckyperson

[KingsGambit]

I greatly appreciate all the replies, despite that in general they suggest the idea to be unviable. I'm currently 35 on my Vanguard, finishing off on Balmorra and have invested 7/3/16. I appreciate that the original idea may not be useful for endgame operations, and won't top any DPS charts, but my hope is that at least until that point, I can have fun soloing, Warzones and Flashpoints. I run Plasma Cell, not Ion Cell.

 

The thing is that the only particularly great skills that I can see being missed out on in Assault are assault plastique and rapid recharge, the latter of which I find I don't have to use that often anyway. There are two useful survivability skills up there too but there are some useful skills in Sheild Spec too, that would otherwise be missed out on. Namely:

 

Static Field - Perma damage debuff

Overcharged Cell Cap - Dmg boost for Incendiary Round, Plasma Cell, Ion Pulse

Rebraced Armour - 16% armour boost (3% DR at lvl 35)

 

Static Shield, Static Surge, Defensive Measures & Riot Gas are all useful skills with boosts to Stock Strike, Explosive Surge and so on. Ion Shield and Shield Cycler (3 points invested) are the only really wasted points, and even they can be useful for example for a backup tank in a Flashpoint, for example.

 

So yes there are some lost crit chance/dmg and circumstantial dmg boosts lost at the top of assault tree but quite a few gains to be had too. I'm managing well in PvP so far and having a lot of fun with it, which I suspect storm will add to greatly. HiB has very high armour penetration and is free almost every 6 seconds, stockstrike is very powerful, slows and DoTs trigger all over the place and in the future, damage debuff, higher crit chance and more mobility. I'll try it out until the higher levels anyway but it's fun and survivable (albeit repetitive) for now.

[CarlosTrevisan]

Yes and no to the stockstrike thing. From the skill tree you get +4% shield chance, and if you're not running Ion Cell you only get 5% shield chance from having a shield. So if you're not running any shield chance at all you have a base +9% shield chance and half of the time when your shield pops up do you even get a reset on the stockstrike cooldown. Ion Cell gives +15% shield chance, bringing the total to +24% shield chance. Also Neural Overload doesn't work without Ion Cell (so if you're not using Ion Cell Neural overload is a wasted point).

 

So yes you'll be using it more because if you run Ion Cell you have a 12% potential chance to reset it. If you don't run Ion cell that potential chance is 4.5%. I say potential because if you dodge an attack you can't shield it.

 

Running Plasma Cell with Ion Accelerator ability allows you to guarantee that Ion Accelerator comes up within every 6 second period. So you can potentially use High Impact Bolt every 6-8 seconds depending on your global cooldowns. Without Plasma Cell on, Ion Accelerator doesn't work.

 

So you choose:

Potential 12% chance to reset stockstrike

 

or

 

Guaranteed HIB reset with potential 4.5% chance to reset stockstrike.

 

Also as far as survival it will have a much lower survivability than a pure tank because you're missing a lot of stuff like the 6 second absorption boost from Energy Blast.

 

From a damage standpoint you lose a lot of little bonuses here and there, and more importantly you lose 30% critical hit damage on Ion Pulse and High Impact bolt, which I think actually would impact your damage quite a bit, since you're hitting HIB every 6-8 seconds and Ion Pulse is used liberally as part of your rotation.

 

I cant say how much dps you will actually lose because I haven't tested it, but do keep in mind that you lose a lot of Tech Power switching from a Generator to a Shield.

 

The best thing about the build that was posted by the original poster is probably the fact that it has a gap closer for a dps. Yes I know hold the line can be used as a gap closer, but Storm is so much better than hold the line for most cases (being that you don't have to jump to someone in cover). The ability to jump to a second floor after being knocked off it is something about storm that is a bit better than Hold the Line. That utility though I personally don't think is worth 13 points, I say 13 because the first 8 points (2 brutal impact, 3 steely resolve, 3 Overcharged cell Capacitor) are abilities that directly help your damage. You could cut it down to 9 IF Static Field and Rebraced Armor give you enough extra uptime to be better than the where those 4 points would otherwise be spent.

Ty for the deep answer Unlucky, so right now looks like its far better run deeply on assault and add some points of the two others threes as OP has said on above post.

Sad. I really really love the charge skill :^/

[unluckyperson]

Ty for the deep answer Unlucky, so right now looks like its far better run deeply on assault and add some points of the two others threes as OP has said on above post.

Sad. I really really love the charge skill :^/

 

well in PvP if you want to be tanky going up the middle tree is your best bet, if you go up the right tree I personally suggest getting Assault Plastique for the sole reason that AP + HIB can produce quite a bit of burst. Note my comments on the right tree are my personal preference.

 

There are also hybrid builds people use, 2/22/22 and 8/22/16.

 

I personally don't like playing the middle tree in PvP that isn't to say it's not viable, it's a style preference. The Hybrids also should be viable in PvP since they generally parse a little better than the right tree or the middle tree.

 

The Carolina Parakeet build that ZillaElite mentioned is a Left and Right tree hybrid, and was very popular a long time ago, long before 55 even happened.

 

Iron Fist was a Left and Middle tree hybrid, where you'd go up in the left tree to get storm and you'd go into the middle tree to get Gut and Frontline Defense. The reason why people stopped using it was that Energy Blast's ammunition regeneration helped to manage your ammunition and in the end the damage you'd get and the fact that you can use it between global cooldowns made it entirely not worth it to use the Iron Fist build anymore. A modern variation of it is probably possible, but I'll be honest in that I'm not sure how it would perform.

 

2.0 brought about a very important change to the way shield and defense chances work. Shields can activate on any attack that does kinetic or energy damage. Defense (dodging) can only happen if you're dealing with a Ranged or Tech attack.

 

So that means in PvP if you're stacking lots of shield/absorb you'll fair decently overall the only thing you'll be not great against mitigation wise is against a damage overtime build, whereas if you're stacking a lot of defense you'll only be great against specific classes and builds (ie. gunslinger/sniper left tree, or sage middle tree).

Edited November 5, 2013 by unluckyperson