The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 15: Satele Shan vs. Count Dooku

[Aurbere]

Welcome to match number fifteen of The BattleZone! Here we pit thirty-two of the greatest Jedi and Sith against each other to decide who is the galaxy's deadliest combatants. Our previous match saw the Jedi Battlemaster Cin Drallig gain a comfortable victory over Cerean Jedi Master Ki-Adi Mundi.

 

Our next match pits Count Dooku against Satele Shan in an epic showdown only in The BattleZone!

 

Battlefield: Saleucami Cloning Facilities

 

Lightsaber Skill:

 

Satele Shan:

 

Satele Shan was a skilled practitioner of the fourth Jedi fighting form of Ataru, a form that emphasized speed and aggression. Prior to, and during the Great Galactic War, Satele had tailored her use of Ataru to be used with a double-bladed lightsaber. Her offense was incredibly fast and agile, incorporating the many acrobatics inherent in Ataru training.

 

Defensively, the double-bladed lightsaber allowed Satele to overcome the defensive weakness that many Ataru users suffered from. However, her defense could crumble under continuous assault from a power duelist.

 

Satele Shan is also capable of physical attacks as well.

 

Count Dooku:

 

As a Jedi, Dooku’s competitive spirit drove him to study Makashi, the primary dueling form of the Jedi Order. Dooku took Makashi to its highest levels, completely mastering it and virtually eliminating the form’s weaknesses. During his time in the Order he served as one of the Temple’s foremost instructors on lightsaber combat, and his teachings became mandatory study for two generations of Jedi Knights. Prior to leaving the Order Dooku was seen as an equal to the very best swordsmen of the Order: Yoda and Mace Windu.

 

Dooku’s abilities with the lightsaber were great. His movements and parries were minimalistic and conservative. Offensively, Dooku was very precise, using the smallest of movements to strike with incredible precision.

 

Defensively, Dooku shunted aside attacks, never taking them head on. He also made quick and sudden retreats to keep his opponent from pushing the offensive.

 

Dooku possessed a working knowledge of all seven lightsaber forms, and developed techniques and sequences tailored to take advantage of each form’s weaknesses. Several of his techniques were always effective on Qui-Gon Jinn, a high-level Ataru master.

 

He was a lightsaber combat tactician, using his advanced knowledge of lightsaber combat to take advantage of the weaknesses of his opponent.

 

Dooku is also skilled in hand-to-hand combat.

 

Edge: The given edge is obvious here. Satele is good, but Dooku is master swordsman. Dooku has spent decades refining his technique, mastering Makashi to its highest levels. Certainly Satele can keep the offensive, but she simply isn’t as skilled as Count Dooku is. Dooku has superior skill and knowledge in lightsaber combat. He is the superior swordsman.

 

Physicality:

 

Satele Shan:

 

Satele Shan is past her physical prime. However, through the Force, she can augment her physical capabilities, granting herself increased agility. She is also a capable acrobat, as is necessary for an Ataru user.

 

Count Dooku:

 

Count Dooku is over eighty years old. With the aid of the Force, Dooku has staved off the aging process, giving him the physical capabilities of a man half his age. He is quick on his feet, and a capable acrobat. He is also strong and tough.

 

Edge: Despite Dooku’s ability to stave off aging, he is still far older than Satele. While his physical abilities are impressive, Satele is still physically superior to him. The Grand Master gets the edge.

 

Mentality:

 

Satele Shan:

 

Satele Shan showed incredible devotion to the Republic and preserving peace in the galaxy. Her devotion to the cause was so great that she gave up her son, Theron, to continue serving the Republic.

 

Shan also possessed incredible willpower, honing her mind over decades.

 

Count Dooku:

 

Dooku was often a calm and composed gentleman, but he had a streak of arrogance. After his fall to the dark side he considered himself more powerful than his former Jedi Master Yoda. His defeat at the hands of Yoda only slightly dampened this belief as he believed himself an equal to the Grand Master.

 

However, Dooku’s arrogance was not so great that he believed himself to be an integral and invaluable piece in the Clone Wars, going so far as to call himself only one cog in an even greater war machine.

 

After his fall to the dark side, Dooku spent a great deal of time studying the Sith Dun Moch tactic, a method of taunting the opponent and attacking their mental weaknesses. Dooku employed this tactic regularly throughout the Clone Wars.

 

Edge: Dooku often shows his arrogance, but he also shows an excellent use of Dun Moch, but Satele Shan has incredible strength of mind and is unlikely to give in to Dooku’s taunts. Satele gets the edge here due to her strength of will and determination.

 

Force Abilities:

 

Satele Shan:

 

As Grand Master of the Jedi Order, Satele Shan is an incredibly powerful Jedi Master. Her abilities in the more rudimentary aspects of the Force were highly advanced and incredibly powerful.

 

Her Force Pushes were nothing short of amazingly powerful. During the Battle of Alderaan she used the Force to hurl the Sith Lord Malgus into a mountain before she used another push to collapse the mountain down upon him. Prior to doing so, she appeared to manipulate air currents to suppress Malgus’ ability to move. Her abilities for telekinesis were such that she could dismantle several Hex Droids with ease.

 

Satele Shan can also see shatterpoints.

 

Her abilities for foresight are highly advanced. She saw the return of the Sith Empire while she was still a Padawan. Her ability to see visions became highly advanced, and she used them to aid the Republic in its war with the Sith Empire.

 

Satele Shan was also a master of Tutaminis to the point that she could block a lightsaber with her bare hands.

 

Count Dooku:

 

Count Dooku was said to be one of the wisest and most powerful Jedi in the Order’s 25,000 year history, and an even more powerful Sith Lord.

 

Prior to leaving the Order, Dooku served as one of its greatest telekinetic masters and instructors, easily being able to lift multiple heavy objects. As a Sith Lord, Dooku would use his telekinetic talents to assault his foes with multiple thrown objects. He regularly showed the ability to rip apart cave ceilings, and man-made constructions with ease.

 

Count Dooku was a master of Tutaminis, being able to deflect his own lightning with his bare hands.

 

Dooku also developed his skill in the abilities of the dark side. He was a master of Force Lightning, using it to casually dismiss opposing Force users with ease. He has used Force Choke to break through the Force defenses of opposing Force users and then toss them aside.

 

Count Dooku has also shown the ability to attack a person’s internal bodily functions to instantly disable them. The ability caused intense pain and could drive powerful Force users to their knees in a matter of seconds. Continued use could incapacitate, or even kill, the target.

 

Edge: The edge is difficult to give here. Satele Shan has shown incredible mastery over the basic abilities of the Force just as Dooku has shown mastery over many basic abilities. However, Satele Shan has shown greater raw power in the Force so she gets the edge.

 

(Remember that any given edge is my opinion only)

 

Thoughts: I theorize that Satele’s show of force on Alderaan may have been a product of her absorbing the energy of Malgus’ lightsaber.

 

So who will win? Who is truly superior?

[tunewalker]

Oh lord so many debate threads..... how will I ever have time for all of these things..... Edited October 11, 2013 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

Apologies for any missed or incorrect information on Satele. I found my previous analysis of her physical and mental abilities unsatisfactory, so I had to use Wookieepedia. Either that or take several weeks to read more books on Satele.

 

So again, I apologize.

[sell-dog]

 

Edge: Dooku often shows his arrogance, but he also shows an excellent use of Dun Moch, but Satele Shan has incredible strength of mind and is unlikely to give in to Dooku’s taunts. Satele gets the edge here due to her strength of will and determination.

 

I'll take some time to think but I'd like to first say that given S. Shan was active throughout the entirety of the Great Galactic War, Cold War, and Galactic War against legions of Sith I don't see much in terms of Dun Moch that Dooku could use/say that Satale hasn't heard or combated with before making the edge for her in this category a little larger. So I agree with what you say in that Don Moch would probably not be useful

[sell-dog]

Apologies for any missed or incorrect information on Satele. I found my previous analysis of her physical and mental abilities unsatisfactory, so I had to use Wookieepedia. Either that or take several weeks to read more books on Satele.

 

So again, I apologize.

 

Awesome job as always good sir. PS I really did enjoy Fatal Alliance whenever you have the time to give it a try. Jet Nebula's my favorite Non-Force User

[Wolfninjajedi]

A pondering thought...but don't you think what Satele did to Malgus was the result of her absorbing Malgus' lightsaber? IIRC right, using Absorb a Jedi/Sith can then augment their Force Power for a short time till the energy is gone that they absorbed. So....would you really count that as Satele herself doing it and not give credit to what she absorbed? I mean cause looking at it, it makes some sense.

 

Not that she wouldn't get the edge anyway due to her other powers, but just something I thought I would throw out there.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Darkondo]

Well in a pure saber duel Dooku's Makashi mastery does best against Form I and IV practicioners. Given that Satele uses Form IV Dooku has an edge in that aspect not just on his skill with the blade but also with his superior matchup.

 

I don't think that the force will come too much into play at least for Dooku anyway since Satele most likely has an answer for everything tht Dooku can throw at her. (ex. Tutamis to his lightning and TK tht most likely matches or overpowers him.)

 

That being said if Dooku takes an early lead which he should due to being the superior duelist I don't believe he will be able to unbalance Satele with Dun Moch. She has proven most notably during her duel with Darth Baras on Dantooine that she cant be unbalanced or even succumb to taunts even when her Master's treachery was revealed.

 

My prediction of the fight is that when they encounter each other he will attempt to test the waters of Satele's force ability much like he did with Yoda in Ep2 with force lightning and TK. When he realizes that his force abilities have no effect he will then ignite his lightsaber along with Satele and they will engage in a duel.

 

Dooku will quickly realize that he is the superior duelist and attempt to use Dun Moch to unbalance Satele. The fact that it will most likely have no effect on Satele will keep her in the duel longer since she's not making any unnecessary mistakes. However, I fear that it only prolongs the inevitable until Dooku disarms or cuts her and with the angles of his slashes produced by Makashi, I fear that Satele will be unable to absorb those slashes in her hand like she did with Malgus.

 

Since in the BZ there is no escape, I see her either from there get cut down by Dooku attempt to use the force in a hit and run battle, or put a force barrier up to protect herself, she loses in all of those situations as she is not superior enough to Dooku in the force to take this victory away. Dooku wins.

[karadron]

Overall this looks like it will become a duel with very little show of Force at all, given that then Dooku wins.

[sell-dog]

My prediction of the fight is that when they encounter each other he will attempt to test the waters of Satele's force ability much like he did with Yoda in Ep2 with force lightning and TK. When he realizes that his force abilities have no effect he will then ignite his lightsaber along with Satele and they will engage in a duel.

 

Thing is in that Eps 2 fight during the Telekinesis (non-Lightning) portion Yoda just played defense. Satale Shan had some pretty amazing Telekinesis feats both at Alderaan and in the Fatal Alliance novel with the hex droids. If Dooku does start with testing the waters as you say like with Yoda, he may be in for a shock as she has no reservations of testing his waters in return.

 

Also, yes I think it could be possible that Satale does absorb some of the energy of the lightsaber but this is just speculation that she channels it rather than diffuse it completely. What is less speculative is that this feat with Malgus takes place 15-20 years before her prime and maybe she could then, and always had, that kind Telekinesis power.

 

PS, is she the only person/instance of absorbing a lightsaber like that?

[sell-dog]

Overall this looks like it will become a duel with very little show of Force at all, given that then Dooku wins.

 

Dooku shows the Force outside of dueling in all his fights in the Prequel Trilogy and in the Clone Wars series as well. He's not one who ignores other Force applications during a fight so I don't think his strategy changes necessarily.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Thing is in that Eps 2 fight during the Telekinesis (non-Lightning) portion Yoda just played defense. Satale Shan had some pretty amazing Telekinesis feats both at Alderaan and in the Fatal Alliance novel with the hex droids. If Dooku does start with testing the waters as you say like with Yoda, he may be in for a shock as she has no reservations of testing his waters in return.

 

Also, yes I think it could be possible that Satale does absorb some of the energy of the lightsaber but this is just speculation that she channels it rather than diffuse it completely. What is less speculative is that this feat with Malgus takes place 15-20 years before her prime and maybe she could then, and always had, that kind Telekinesis power.

 

PS, is she the only person/instance of absorbing a lightsaber like that?

 

No Nejaa Halcyon did so. Aside from those two demonstrating it as can The Ones, there are others who no doubt could do the same just never were in a position to do so.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[sell-dog]

No Nejaa Halcyon did so. Aside from those two demonstrating it as can The Ones, there are others who no doubt could do the same just never was in a position to do so.

 

I'm not familiar with post-ROTJ EU yet. And I agree that other people could do this feat but was just wondering for curiosity sake not to add points to Satele or anything like that. Thanks

[Aurbere]

A pondering thought...but don't you think what Satele did to Malgus was the result of her absorbing Malgus' lightsaber? IIRC right, using Absorb a Jedi/Sith can then augment their Force Power for a short time till the energy is gone that they absorbed. So....would you really count that as Satele herself doing it and not give credit to what she absorbed? I mean cause looking at it, it makes some sense.

 

Not that she wouldn't get the edge anyway due to her other powers, but just something I thought I would throw out there.

 

That is my theory.

[Aurbere]

Thing is in that Eps 2 fight during the Telekinesis (non-Lightning) portion Yoda just played defense. Satale Shan had some pretty amazing Telekinesis feats both at Alderaan and in the Fatal Alliance novel with the hex droids. If Dooku does start with testing the waters as you say like with Yoda, he may be in for a shock as she has no reservations of testing his waters in return.

 

Also, yes I think it could be possible that Satale does absorb some of the energy of the lightsaber but this is just speculation that she channels it rather than diffuse it completely. What is less speculative is that this feat with Malgus takes place 15-20 years before her prime and maybe she could then, and always had, that kind Telekinesis power.

 

PS, is she the only person/instance of absorbing a lightsaber like that?

 

I think it is very likely that she used the absorbed energy to attack Malgus with.

[sell-dog]

I think it is very likely that she used the absorbed energy to attack Malgus with.

 

Like I mentioned I agree but this occurs 15-20 years before her prime. What she did with the relative ease of destroying hex droids is pretty impressive given that the droids where no joke. Shortly before the battle with hex droids she envelops herself in the Force to shortly be transported through space without any suits/other support. Quite impressive also.

 

What I'm saying is that while the feat is preformed 15-20 years before her prime, I think she could perform this feat without any energy absorption in her prime. I'm still having problems deciding who I think will win however.

[Aurbere]

Like I mentioned I agree but this occurs 15-20 years before her prime. What she did with the relative ease of destroying hex droids is pretty impressive given that the droids where no joke. Shortly before the battle with hex droids she envelops herself in the Force to shortly be transported through space without any suits/other support. Quite impressive also.

 

What I'm saying is that while the feat is preformed 15-20 years before her prime, I think she could perform this feat without any energy absorption in her prime. I'm still having problems deciding who I think will win however.

 

I'm not convinced that she could replicate that normally.

[Beniboybling]

Satele Shan can also see shatterpoints.

I question the validity of this claim.

Thoughts: I theorize that Satele’s show of force on Alderaan may have been a product of her absorbing the energy of Malgus’ lightsaber.

Highly unlikely, given that the lightsaber is coated in a containment field and didn't just fail on contact its obvious that Satele didn't dissipate the plasma of the lightsaber but the heat energy produced by it once it came into contact with whatever field she was projecting.

 

Heat energy is not enough to produce an attack of such potency, I doubt it came into play at all.

 

Remembering that what she displayed here was very much in congruence with her exceptional ability in telekinetic attacks and general Force prowess over all - which in honesty I feel might win it for Satele.

[Beniboybling]

OK, I'm going to elaborate on why I feel Satele Shan would win.

 

In terms of lightsaber combat, I agree that Dooku is superior duelist. However it is in the Force that this contest will be won. And in that field Satele is clearly dominant. But first I'll go over lightsaber combat.

 

Eventually Dooku is going to defeat Satele in this field, and I expect it will be done via sun djem i.e. cutting her lightsaber in half. However I don't believe Dooku is going to be able to sever any of Satele's appendages or injure her arms in anyway - and that is because the double bladed lightsaber naturally protects these areas.

 

Now when Dooku disarms Satele, he is likely going to go for a shiak strike i.e a stab. Slashing and chopping simply weren't attacks that Makashi favored, instead it relied on light jabs and cuts.

 

Unfortunately this works to Dooku's disadvantage because Satele is capable of blocking a stabbing attack with tutaminis and altogether her acrobatic ability makes her more than capable of evading Dooku unarmed.

 

Indeed its practically become a trope in Star Wars that once your enemy is disarmed, you can't touch em. And so the battle progresses to a contest of Force abilities. Without her lightsaber Satele is going to resort to powerful Force based attacks to batter Dooku into submission and likely knock that lightsaber out of his hand like this.

 

And Dooku, being old, isn't that great at recovering all too quickly from being knocked down. And in a weakened position Satele can kill him with his own weapon, though alternatively Satele could collapse the cave on him.

[Aurbere]

I question the validity of this claim.

Highly unlikely, given that the lightsaber is coated in a containment field and didn't just fail on contact its obvious that Satele didn't dissipate the plasma of the lightsaber but the heat energy produced by it once it came into contact with whatever field she was projecting.

 

Heat energy is not enough to produce an attack of such potency, I doubt it came into play at all.

 

Remembering that what she displayed here was very much in congruence with her exceptional ability in telekinetic attacks and general Force prowess over all - which in honesty I feel might win it for Satele.

 

I believe Satele's feat has been replicated before (though I don't think to the same extent). Which is why I made that theory.

 

Regardless, I never said I was right.

[Aurbere]

OK, I'm going to elaborate on why I feel Satele Shan would win.

 

In terms of lightsaber combat, I agree that Dooku is superior duelist. However it is in the Force that this contest will be won. And in that field Satele is clearly dominant. But first I'll go over lightsaber combat.

 

Eventually Dooku is going to defeat Satele in this field, and I expect it will be done via sun djem i.e. cutting her lightsaber in half. However I don't believe Dooku is going to be able to sever any of Satele's appendages or injure her arms in anyway - and that is because the double bladed lightsaber naturally protects these areas.

 

Now when Dooku disarms Satele, he is likely going to go for a shiak strike i.e a stab. Slashing and chopping simply weren't attacks that Makashi favored, instead it relied on light jabs and cuts.

 

Unfortunately this works to Dooku's disadvantage because Satele is capable of blocking a stabbing attack with tutaminis and altogether her acrobatic ability makes her more than capable of evading Dooku unarmed.

 

Indeed its practically become a trope in Star Wars that once your enemy is disarmed, you can't touch em. And so the battle progresses to a contest of Force abilities. Without her lightsaber Satele is going to resort to powerful Force based attacks to batter Dooku into submission and likely knock that lightsaber out of his hand like this.

 

And Dooku, being old, isn't that great at recovering all too quickly from being knocked down. And in a weakened position Satele can kill him with his own weapon, though alternatively Satele could collapse the cave on him.

 

Except Dooku developed tactics and maneuvers that could instantly end duels. He doesn't even need to disarm her.

 

Edit: I certainly hope this won't be another me vs. you threads. I've been trying to limit the amount of debating I do so as not to seem bias.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Aurbere

[Beniboybling]

I believe Satele's feat has been replicated before (though I don't think to the same extent). Which is why I made that theory.

 

Regardless, I never said I was right.

With a blaster bolt perhaps, but not with the heat of a lightsaber I think.

 

Anyway regarding shatterpoint, again I'd question that. For one its conjecture on Wookieepedia's part and secondly I feel if she did have that ability it would appear more prominently than her simply being able to destroy blast doors.

 

I expect it was simply a Force push. Really if we look at this image the tell tale patterns are simply not there.

[Aurbere]

With a blaster bolt perhaps, but not with the heat of a lightsaber I think.

 

Anyway regarding shatterpoint, again I'd question that. For one its conjecture on Wookieepedia's part and secondly I feel if she did have that ability it would appear more prominently than her simply being able to destroy blast doors.

 

I expect it was simply a Force push. Really if we look at this image the tell tale patterns are simply not there.

 

Never trust the Wookiee

 

But back to Tutaminis. I believe a similar feat was performed by someone named Halcyon.

[Beniboybling]

Except Dooku developed tactics and maneuvers that could instantly end duels. He doesn't even need to disarm her.

 

Edit: I certainly hope this won't be another me vs. you threads. I've been trying to limit the amount of debating I do so as not to seem bias.

Lol, its only going to be a you vs me thread if you choose to counter my points. Everything else I've been disputing with you is a question of facts rather than opinions.

 

Regardless, I'm not to sure about these tactics and manoeuvres - Dooku was an exceptional duelist but he didn't invent anything knew. All he has is the standard attacks of Makashi, which can be dodged/blocked like any other.

 

After all, he failed to kill Ventress. And all she did was redirect the angle of his lightsaber. I'm not exactly sure what Dooku can do if Satele does the same, or rather blocks the attack, or simply flips out of range and Force pushes him.

[Aurbere]

Lol, its only going to be a you vs me thread if you choose to counter my points. Everything else I've been disputing with you is a question of facts rather than opinions.

 

Regardless, I'm not to sure about these tactics and manoeuvres - Dooku was an exceptional duelist but he didn't invent anything knew. All he has is the standard attacks of Makashi, which can be dodged/blocked like any other.

 

After all, he failed to kill Ventress. And all she did was redirect the angle of his lightsaber. I'm not exactly sure what Dooku can do if Satele does the same, or rather blocks the attack, or simply flips out of range and Force pushes him.

 

Dooku has created maneuvers that were 100% effective on Qui-Gon Jinn. One of the maneuvers he designed to counter Ataru was to sweep the leg, causing them to flip over his head, then impale them.

 

We've seen Satele dodge attacks in this manner before.

 

Edit: But yeah, I don't want this to be just you and me, so I'll let others debate. After all, I don't want to sound bias.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Aurbere

[Beniboybling]

Never trust the Wookiee

 

But back to Tutaminis. I believe a similar feat was performed by someone named Halcyon.

I don't know, Halcyon seems a like a high level master of the ability - and I doubt his force powers really compared.

 

Like, at all.