Kaggath Tournament - Alliance of Worlds vs Krayt's Vision

[tunewalker]

Droids may not be rebels, yet it is a clear example that being vastly outnumbered is meaningless. Also, are you certain you are referring to the 501st, and not just your average Imperial Soldiers.

 

100 Krath War Droids (more if you count how cheap and quick to produce they are), various vehicle detachments apart of the 501st, and Arakyd tanks.

 

The fact is that you can't field enormous quantities of soldiers. What you can field is well within the means of the 501st to beat. Note that I am not saying that the 501st can beat your millions, I'm saying that they can beat what is within your means to field in a single battle.

 

I am sure also I have http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/T4-B_heavy_tank

 

ULAV's and so much more the rebels can destroy anything the KV can deploy and I don't have to win an offensive ground battle on the first go. If you look at my scenario I lose 20,000 troops and some special forces to about 5k 501st members only costing the 501st 2k in casualties but because they needed to focus their attention their 6k Spec force marines (where your equipment counts for nothing) were able to take some of the ships. If less are sent down 20k could win and still no garantee it would stop the 6k spec forces from taking the ships when so many ships are their putting them on every ship means you spread them to thin when those 6k are focused on only taking a few. I don't have to beat the 501st in one go just wittle them down. I can replace troops through recruitment and training on Carida the KV can replace them through droids, droids that are no where near as good as the main fighting force that is the 501st. In the couple weeks this Kaggath takes the most droids I suspect can be made will be around 50k and they will slow my invasion but they will not stop it.

 

Edit: also my scenario suggests that the special ops members that got through using the Cargo ships will reprogram your factories so all the droids that are built are programmed to help the rebels when the order is given causing these droids that are the KV's back up to the 501st to turn on them.

Edited October 13, 2013 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

Sorry guys, been very busy today. Three things to say before I disappear again:

 

1. I mean the Fel Empire Navy Tune. The reason being that the 501st persisted across eras to the Fel Empire and beyond. So essentially they are associated with her faction, this is just an era change. However their effect is likely exaggerated, the GCW were susceptible to the tactics of the Rebel Alliance despite engaging in a prolonged conflict with them and given the disparity in eras I doubt many if any have first hand battle experience.

 

2. Try and avoid endless debate on the same topic, your opponent might just not budge. Instead I'd advise pursuing multiple avenues as after all single arguments are only going to get a few points.

 

3. It might be worth considering the possibility of Luke/Leia - with Brentaalian help - navigating the Deep Core - not by carving out knew hyperlanes but simply navigating like Bane did when searching for Tython.

 

Number 3 is a part of the second scenario I will be posting later tonight thank you beni I have brought some of that up before. this is of course along with my first scenario on post # 415 which has about 5 or 6 different ways it can go with varying levels of success that all ultimately end in the same general way do to some of the main key points that are part of 3 different characters histories all of which are in this Kaggath and thus has precendence of it happening.

Edited October 13, 2013 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ok so....from my source I got some info that Rayla probably doesn't wanna hear.. but ah....as it turns out. The Imperial Commando Special Unit were replaced by the better Storm Commandos and other Specforces of the GE, their equipment also being cheaper than their Clone Commando counterparts.

 

Now do I think they wouldn't be able to pull off some stuff? No of course not, but...their equipment also does play a factorial roll in all of this.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Ok so....from my source I got some info that Rayla probably doesn't wanna hear.. but ah....as it turns out. The Imperial Commando Special Unit were replaced by the better Storm Commandos and other Specforces of the GE, their equipment also being cheaper than their Clone Commando counterparts.

 

Now do I think they wouldn't be able to pull off some stuff? No of course not, but...their equipment also does play a factorial roll in all of this.

 

I think we are meaning to ask how they fair against Rebel Spec forces.... can they beat them at better then 5:1 odds?

 

 

 

Edit: what it looks like they literally do the same things the Rebel Spec forces do they are almost carbon copies of my spec forces. I would give them a 2:1 ratio but not much better then that.

 

Edit: actually they way they are described sounds exactly like the 3rd Regiment of the Rebel Spec forces they both do exactly the same stuff using exactly the same tactics hell even their equipment is near similar though I would say the Storm Commando's have slightly better equipment but there are only 1k of those on rayla's faction and I have some where between 10-12k on my team so...... I think it more then cancels out any effectiveness they would have.

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

I think we are meaning to ask how they fair against Rebel Spec forces.... can they beat them at better then 5:1 odds?

 

At this point? Not likely, given the fact Rebel Specforces are similar in comparison to Imperial Specforce in regards to what they do...however a good number of them were also former Imperial troops themselves, which adds to the benefit of knowing Imperial procedure and the like.

 

Am I saying that the Imperial Commando Unit won't be able to perform Spec ops? No...but it's gonna be an uphill battle for them, given they are gonna be going not only against regular Rebel troops but also Rebel Specforce who are of similar ways. I just don't see them being able to do it all 100% of the time.

[tunewalker]

At this point? Not likely, given the fact Rebel Specforces are similar in comparison to Imperial Specforce in regards to what they do...however a good number of them were also former Imperial troops themselves, which adds to the benefit of knowing Imperial procedure and the like.

 

Am I saying that the Imperial Commando Unit won't be able to perform Spec ops? No...but it's gonna be an uphill battle for them, given they are gonna be going not only against regular Rebel troops but also Rebel Specforce who are of similar ways. I just don't see them being able to do it all 100% of the time.

 

You know I think most of us see this as a half awnser the general question (or I guess the one I have) is which is going to find themselves successful more often the 100K Rebel Spec forces or the 1k Imperial ones. Which is going to be more effective and to what degree like do you think the Imps will have a 80% success rate or a 20% success rate and the rebels 30%, 70%?

 

 

Edit: actually never mind I re-read if I am reading it right the Rebels should have a much greater success rate because you were saying over all No they could not handle 5:1 odds against rebel spec forces and overall the number is 100:1 odds but 10:1 odds on any planet they try to get on.

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

You know I think most of us see this as a half awnser the general question (or I guess the one I have) is which is going to find themselves successful more often the 100K Rebel Spec forces or the 1k Imperial ones. Which is going to be more effective and to what degree like do you think the Imps will have a 80% success rate or a 20% success rate and the rebels 30%, 70%?

 

 

Edit: actually never mind I re-read if I am reading it right the Rebels should have a much greater success rate because you were saying over all No they could not handle 5:1 odds against rebel spec forces and overall the number is 100:1 odds but 10:1 odds on any planet they try to get on.

 

Right...on another note, according to the Specforce Rules of Engagement they also have access to high-grade and sometimes experimental equipment, such as Cameo Armor, Shadow Suits, Sensory equipment etc etc.

 

Weapons include like Vibroknives, Penetrator mini blasters, Heavy carbines, Sniper Blast Rifles, Bolt Throwers etc etc

Edited October 14, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Right...on another note, according to the Specforce Rules of Engagement they also have access to high-grade and sometimes experimental equipment, such as Cameo Armor, Shadow Suits, Sensory equipment etc etc.

 

Weapons include like Vibroknives, Penetrator mini blasters, Heavy carbines, Sniper Blast Rifles, Bolt Throwers etc etc

 

I have to say thank you wolf . I know this wasn't what Rayla was hoping for but I will say it does help out because I was wanting some respect to be paid to the excellent Rebel SpecForces and up until this point I don't think they have been receiving much respect so thank you very much for this Wolf.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I have to say thank you wolf . I know this wasn't what Rayla was hoping for but I will say it does help out because I was wanting some respect to be paid to the excellent Rebel SpecForces and up until this point I don't think they have been receiving much respect so thank you very much for this Wolf.

 

Ya, I just found pretty much the whole Rules of Engagement listing a ton of things for the Rebel Specforce....there is a lot for them.

 

Ahhh...sorry Rayla, I just can't find any information in regards to the Imperial Commando Special Unit of the 501st other than what I put down.

[LadyKulvax]

I still like this assumption that the Imperial Commando Special Units are engaging in out-right war, they aren't, as I said ten pages ago....

 

But regardless ARC Troopers, Omega Squad, Delta Squad, Galaar Squad, Shock Troopers, Dark Troopers and more I dont see how these guys aren't the best there are.

 

Infiltration missions are well within their expertise.

Edited October 14, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[tunewalker]

I still like this assumption that the Imperial Commando Special Units are engaging in out-right war, they aren't, as I said ten pages ago....

 

Neither are the Rebel special forces....... they are both using the same tactics to both attack and defend against each other. I just have more. We all realize they aren't straight fighting but neither are their enemies.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I still like this assumption that the Imperial Commando Special Units are engaging in out-right war, they aren't, as I said ten pages ago....

 

But regardless ARC Troopers, Omega Squad, Delta Squad, Galaar Squad, Shock Troopers, Dark Troopers and more I dont see how these guys aren't the best there are.

 

Infiltration missions are well within their expertise.

 

Never said they were fighting in all out battles, just that their enemy would know how they would think in regards to what they do.

 

Though question, where are you getting that the ICSU(am shorting it now) have Dark Troopers?

[LadyKulvax]

You can't actively fight something you can't find, they'll likely be ambushing rebel troopers, stealing their uniforms, using stealthed drop ships to make landings.

 

These guys have done far far far harder missions than this many times in their careers, they have done 'the impossible' more than once, infiltrating into a shield generator room is well within their expertise and with 250 commandos splitting up and causing distractions, pulling forces into different areas, laying major traps, etc....

 

All they have to do is blow up a Shield Generator, this is not at all difficult for them, casualties dont matter, the Shield Generators do neither do the odds, they have one target to blow up, once that target is destroyed they can be pulled out by overwhelming air support.

 

By this point, that planet is done with.

[LadyKulvax]

Never said they were fighting in all out battles, just that their enemy would know how they would think in regards to what they do.

 

Though question, where are you getting that the ICSU(am shorting it now) have Dark Troopers?

 

It is stated that they have all kinds of special forces for all types of different missions in different environments with specialists for any kind of requirements, the Dark Troopers and more would be part of these different variations of specialists.

[Wolfninjajedi]

You can't actively fight something you can't find, they'll likely be ambushing rebel troopers, stealing their uniforms, using stealthed drop ships to make landings.

 

These guys have done far far far harder missions than this many times in their careers, they have done 'the impossible' more than once, infiltrating into a shield generator room is well within their expertise and with 250 commandos splitting up and causing distractions, pulling forces into different areas, laying major traps, etc....

 

All they have to do is blow up a Shield Generator, this is not at all difficult for them, casualties dont matter, the Shield Generators do neither do the odds, they have one target to blow up, once that target is destroyed they can be pulled out by overwhelming air support.

 

By this point, that planet is done with.

 

Again not saying they can't do it, but 100% of the time on every planet? Ya I don't see happening here, this would mean they could just solo the entire Faction.

 

It is stated that they have all kinds of special forces for all types of different missions in different environments with specialists for any kind of requirements, the Dark Troopers and more would be part of these different variations of specialists.

 

In what source?

Edited October 14, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

You can't actively fight something you can't find, they'll likely be ambushing rebel troopers, stealing their uniforms, using stealthed drop ships to make landings.

 

These guys have done far far far harder missions than this many times in their careers, they have done 'the impossible' more than once, infiltrating into a shield generator room is well within their expertise and with 250 commandos splitting up and causing distractions, pulling forces into different areas, laying major traps, etc....

 

All they have to do is blow up a Shield Generator, this is not at all difficult for them, casualties dont matter, the Shield Generators do neither do the odds, they have one target to blow up, once that target is destroyed they can be pulled out by overwhelming air support.

 

By this point, that planet is done with.

 

This still relies on winning the space war and nothing you have done (not even the virus) will have had any effect on the space war Wedge is still better then Pellaeon when Pellaeon is on the offensive and Wedge is on the Defensive. Also My own special forces units have stealth and can be set up as defense against such a tactic they know how your troops think. My own special forces have STOPPED a mission like this before and have preformed such a task before that's the whole point, they were designed to both utilize and counter the very tactics you are talking about.

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

3. It might be worth considering the possibility of Luke/Leia - with Brentaalian help - navigating the Deep Core - not by carving out knew hyperlanes but simply navigating like Bane did when searching for Tython.

 

Alright, so where did Bane enter the Deep Core? And how long did it take for him to reach Tython?

[Aurbere]

I am sure

 

Pretty sure my sources trump your opinion.

[tunewalker]

Litterally everything the Empire made or unit the Empire had the Rebel SpecForces, Spec Ops or Standard Army designed or were specifically trained to counter. The "Impossible Missions" were normally against standard troops and the failed missions are where they had Rebel Special forces there to counter and the Imperial Special forces did fail mission.

[LadyKulvax]

Honestly it sounds to me like Tunewalker has the perfect faction to me, all kinds of troopers, 24,000,000 of them far more than anyone else has, one of the biggest fleets in all the factions, a perfect admiral to lead, two of the best Jedi ever, battle meditation, perfectly defendable planets, all sorts of things like this.

 

Apparently viruses dont work on him because they dont matter, conventional war doesnt work on him because he has too many ships, infiltration doesnt work on him because he can do it as well, hero to hero combat wont work on him because Luke and Leia beats all.

 

However he can apparently do all of this in turn.

 

How exactly can you win against this again?

[tunewalker]

Pretty sure my sources trump your opinion.

 

what are we talking about? What sources and what opinion you just quoted I am sure.

 

 

Oh now I know what you are talking about.... you asked me if I was certain so I started out with I am sure. Yours was an opinion based off of how they did against droids. Mine was showing that the rebels have done far better then droids ever did against all kinds of storm troopers the 501st included.

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

Litterally everything the Empire made or unit the Empire had the Rebel SpecForces, Spec Ops or Standard Army designed or were specifically trained to counter. The "Impossible Missions" were normally against standard troops and the failed missions are where they had Rebel Special forces there to counter and the Imperial Special forces did fail mission.

 

Source? Am just curious, cause I never have read this.

[tunewalker]

Source? Am just curious, cause I never have read this.

 

OK I don't have an exact source but I am pretty sure anything they link from the empire I know of something the rebels had that countered it. Including units that's all I am saying if they can link something that I don't know about in the empire then I may still be able to find a counter for it on the side of the rebels. You can pretty much say that was an opinion that I can mostly back up just by bringing counters to any unit I know about.

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

OK I don't have an exact source but I am pretty sure anything they link from the empire I know of something the rebels had that countered it. Including units that's all I am saying if they can link something that I don't know about in the empire then I may still be able to find a counter for it on the side of the rebels. You can pretty much say that was an opinion that I can mostly back up just by bringing counters to any unit I know about.

 

Well this works both ways, the Imperial Troops would also have to be trained to take out Rebels too. So it really seems to be a wash out between the two.

 

Also on another note, but I would like to get into some Luke Skywalker here...what is he gonna be doing?

Edited October 14, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[LadyKulvax]

Honestly it sounds to me like Tunewalker has the perfect faction to me, all kinds of troopers, 24,000,000 of them far more than anyone else has, one of the biggest fleets in all the factions, a perfect admiral to lead, two of the best Jedi ever, battle meditation, perfectly defendable planets, all sorts of things like this.

 

Apparently viruses dont work on him because they dont matter, conventional war doesnt work on him because he has too many ships, infiltration doesnt work on him because he can do it as well, hero to hero combat wont work on him because Luke and Leia beats all.

 

However he can apparently do all of this in turn.

 

How exactly can you win against this again?

 

Again, this.^

 

Note: not saying his faction is OP but the rest of us could do with something on similar levels, I mean 24,000,000 troops when you pick a major ground force but a minor one is maximum 10,000?

Edited October 14, 2013 by LadyKulvax