Fleet Battles Round 1 Battle 2 Silenceo vs Beniboybling

[Silenceo]

I played another skirmish as Consortium against an Easy empire, and i noticed that the damage jumped severely. Went from 25% of the shield, to 100%.

 

Difficulty does indeed have a play in its weapon damage.

 

Any idea if campaign ships and skirmish ships have different stats? going to do more testing against consortium.

[Aurbere]

Its possible effectiveness etc. scales with difficult. I for one only ever play easy or medium. The fact that the Merciless can take down the shields of an SSD on some difficulties suggests this.

 

Anyway I'd much prefer we refer to the facts when possible.

 

Judging from my experiences, I'd say medium would be most canonically correct. If we can even establish canon to a game difficulty.

[tunewalker]

Judging from my experiences, I'd say medium would be most canonically correct. If we can even establish canon to a game difficulty.

 

probably ya.... its just should we really be using game mechanics at all? I don't know I haven't been following this debate all that much to be honest I feel Silenceo and Beni have been fighting well enough on their own

[Beniboybling]

probably ya.... its just should we really be using game mechanics at all? I don't know I haven't been following this debate all that much to be honest I feel Silenceo and Beni have been fighting well enough on their own

Well I see my theory as much more credible.

[Silenceo]

I find it hard to base anything creditable on game mechanics, though do explain how yours is more creditable please.

[karadron]

My problem with game mechanics is that they don't usually reflect reality.

[Silenceo]

For example, Imperial MK I star destroyers being able to lose their shields in a single volley....

[Beniboybling]

I find it hard to base anything creditable on game mechanics, though do explain how yours is more creditable please.

Because its based on canon facts, as opposed to game mechanics. Facts you have yet to dispute.

 

On the other hand we have your unsupported opinion, not exactly credible or partisan.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Silenceo]

Please state the facts in a list so i may view them better.

 

And unsupported? i have supported it with facts about my own ships capabilities, and have tried to find facts on your own, though that hasn't gone too well. Every pieces of data i have posted, every scrap of it, is based on their cannonical strength, not their game strength. I am using the real facts, the facts that tell how strong they really are.

 

The only time i have mentioned game mechanics, is in response to your own ships, or to try and find more information about your ships, since they are in no other source.

 

Don't give me that bs about unsupported opinion, my only opinion is the strategies and the possible shield strength of the Lusankya *still unable to find a solid source on that part* Everything else, every single detail, down from the size of the ships, up to their destructive potential, even how the fighter compliments are organized, are facts about The Empire. I have invented none of that, every bit of it i have either read from books directly, found on the wiki, or seen in the movies.

 

If you would, please state the facts you have about your own ships, and please, Do Not Estimate, be Exact.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

Please state the facts in a list so i may view them better.

 

And unsupported? i have supported it with facts about my own ships capabilities, and have tried to find facts on your own, though that hasn't gone too well. Every pieces of data i have posted, every scrap of it, is based on their cannonical strength, not their game strength. I am using the real facts, the facts that tell how strong they really are.

 

The only time i have mentioned game mechanics, is in response to your own ships, or to try and find more information about your ships, since they are in no other source.

 

Don't give me that bs about unsupported opinion, my only opinion is the strategies and the possible shield strength of the Lusankya *still unable to find a solid source on that part* Everything else, every single detail, down from the size of the ships, up to their destructive potential, even how the fighter compliments are organized, are facts about The Empire. I have invented none of that, every bit of it i have either read from books directly, found on the wiki, or seen in the movies.

 

If you would, please state the facts you have about your own ships, and please, Do Not Estimate, be Exact.

Woah, woah I'm not saying that everything you've been saying is baseless. I'm specifically talking about whether the Merciless can penetrate the Lusankya's shields as all you've been saying is "its strong, but not that strong."

 

Whereas in post #161 I demonstrate, using the canon information we possess on reactor outputs, that it is a possibility. If you do not believe this to be true, then point out the flaw in my reasoning, because I don't see one.

 

I full accept all your other arguments.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Silenceo]

Taken directly from the Wiki for Executor reactor and shield strength.

 

Peak (reactor): >Peak (reactor): >7,73 × 10(exponent26) W about 77,300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Peak (shields): 3,8 × 10(exponent26) W[2] about 3,800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

 

Its shields handled much of the power generated—an amount equivalent to the total power of a medium star (3.8 × 1026 W).[2] Shield-projectors were placed throughout the hull, which decentralized the protection system and decreased the chance of all shields falling at once. Known shield segments included the dorsal, ventral, bow, aft, port and starboard shields.[18] In later-model ships, an extra shield generator was mounted in the middle of the ship.

 

Think about that for just a second, the power of a small star?

 

The total output for a reactor from a MK II *which you said likely is near in strength of an Aggressor*

 

Peak: >9,28 × 10(exponent24) W[7] (over 20% more power than the ISD-I)[8][9] about 928,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

 

That is all the power, total. Not just weapon systems, but all of it.

 

That means the shields have an advantage of 2,872,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 of the entire MK II's reactor.

 

BTW, in post 161, that was not an executor that gets taken down. That is an Eclipse, and it was still in construction, though its main weapon was online.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Silenceo

[Wolfninjajedi]

Taken directly from the Wiki for Executor reactor and shield strength.

 

Peak (reactor): >Peak (reactor): >7,73 × 10(exponent26) W

Peak (shields): 3,8 × 10(exponent26) W[2] about 3,800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

 

Its shields handled much of the power generated—an amount equivalent to the total power of a medium star (3.8 × 1026 W).[2] Shield-projectors were placed throughout the hull, which decentralized the protection system and decreased the chance of all shields falling at once. Known shield segments included the dorsal, ventral, bow, aft, port and starboard shields.[18] In later-model ships, an extra shield generator was mounted in the middle of the ship.

 

Think about that for just a second, the power of a small star?

 

The total output for a reactor from a MK II *which you said likely is near in strength of an Aggressor*

 

Peak: >9,28 × 10(exponent24) W[7] (over 20% more power than the ISD-I)[8][9] about 928,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

 

That is all the power, total. Not just weapon systems, but all of it.

 

Computer Calculator?

 

Executor

 

Reactor: 773 ssexvigintillion(26 zeroes)

 

Shields: 380 sexvigintillion

[Beniboybling]

Taken directly from the Wiki for Executor reactor and shield strength.

 

Peak (reactor): >Peak (reactor): >7,73 × 10(exponent26) W about 77,300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Peak (shields): 3,8 × 10(exponent26) W[2] about 3,800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

 

Its shields handled much of the power generated—an amount equivalent to the total power of a medium star (3.8 × 1026 W).[2] Shield-projectors were placed throughout the hull, which decentralized the protection system and decreased the chance of all shields falling at once. Known shield segments included the dorsal, ventral, bow, aft, port and starboard shields.[18] In later-model ships, an extra shield generator was mounted in the middle of the ship.

 

Think about that for just a second, the power of a small star?

 

The total output for a reactor from a MK II *which you said likely is near in strength of an Aggressor*

 

Peak: >9,28 × 10(exponent24) W[7] (over 20% more power than the ISD-I)[8][9] about 928,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

 

That is all the power, total. Not just weapon systems, but all of it.

 

That means the shields have an advantage of 2,872,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 of the entire MK II's reactor.

I'm not sure why you attempt to achieve by doing the calculations again that I have already done but omitting important information i.e surface area. I mean do you really think the Lusankya's shields are 2,872 octillion times more powerful than an SD? Don't be ridiculous. Please refer to #161 for the correct figures.

 

Did you even have the respect to read it?

Edited October 6, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Silenceo]

It is not like each projector has its each own power supply, they all draw from the same source. Some may receive more of the power *due to being focus of the battle for example* but it is not suffering much of diminishing returns considering how quickly power can be rerouted from one section of shielding to another.

 

I have read every single post in this thread, and the shields of the Lusankya are indeed NOT weaker or equal to that of the average MK II that you seem to be implying. Great surface area, yes, but it is not like ammunition that has to be slowly moved from one place to another. Must i go find the examples i have seen to demonstrate how powerful the shields are? Because one particular one i remember is three Imperial MK I's colliding with the Executors bottom shield at light-speed, yet the Executor walked away from it, not fast, and right to a dry dock, but it did survive the impact without dropping shields.

 

Though that example is not great considering that it was from a comic from a while ago, it is merely an example.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

BTW, in post 161, that was not an executor that gets taken down. That is an Eclipse, and it was still in construction, though its main weapon was online.

See

Noting the only other weapons firing on it were mass driver cannons. Edited October 6, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Silenceo]

*sigh* must we really get into the case of the differences between Executor and Eclipse?

 

Let me make it short:

 

Executor: Traditional warship on steroids, gigantic, heavy armor, heavy weapons, great shields.

 

Eclipse: Larger than Executor, more heavily armored, VERY FEW WEAPONS, a super laser like the death star, heavy shields.

 

I repeat, the one you fight in the end of the Campaign is a Eclipse that is under construction.

 

Edit: didnt watch that far into the video, so i apologize for that last part. Though, still keep in mind the Executor class was not full power in that game so that the Empire was not OP.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

It is not like each projector has its each own power supply, they all draw from the same source. Some may receive more of the power *due to being focus of the battle for example* but it is not suffering much of diminishing returns considering how quickly power can be rerouted from one section of shielding to another.

 

I have read every single post in this thread, and the shields of the Lusankya are indeed NOT weaker or equal to that of the average MK II that you seem to be implying. Great surface area, yes, but it is not like ammunition that has to be slowly moved from one place to another. Must i go find the examples i have seen to demonstrate how powerful the shields are? Because one particular one i remember is three Imperial MK I's colliding with the Executors bottom shield at light-speed, yet the Executor walked away from it, not fast, and right to a dry dock, but it did survive the impact without dropping shields.

 

Though that example is not great considering that it was from a comic from a while ago, it is merely an example.

I don't understand what your point is here, greater surface area means a greater area over which the shield generators need to project the shields, requiring a greater amount of power in relation to size. It should be quite obvious that a shield of the same strength is going to require far less power when fitted on a corvette as opposed to a dreadnought. Therefore if you want an accurate number your going to have to divide it accordance with this.

 

This is blatantly evident from your attempt to circumvent this, as it has led to an incorrect statistic that suggests it would take two thousand eight hundred and seventy two octillion planetary ion cannons just to take down an SSD shields. If that were the case the Rebels would haven't have stood the slightest chance at taking its shields down during the Battle of Endor. But clearly that is not the case, and surface area is exactly why. The shields are spread over a wider surface area and therefore spread thinner as an equal amount of power has to distributed across the entire vessel.

 

Now what you are using here as an example is a physical object and therefore moot, as we are dealing with ionised particles which are grossly more effective against shields.

[Silenceo]

Alright, since you seem to be know all of this already, please tell us how much per section, and how much each shot from your cannon can break?

 

Though if what an earlier poster suggest was true, and the Rebel Fleet had 40+ capital ships * i highly doubt it, i estimate that around 20* and it only took a few minutes from that many capital ships not counting the smaller vessels, then how much power do you think it will take to break a small section with one ship, when it took so many more to drop the entire thing.

 

Also, if it is powerful enough to drop it with one blast, i highly doubt that you will be able to keep stealth, since the entire reason you got access to stealth, and to 3 addition capital ships was supposedly because the Lusankya would be way too tough to take down without it. However, if you manage to prove that the Merciless is able to 1-2 shot the main parts of the Lusankya, i do wonder what will happen to those bonuses.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Silenceo

[Selenial]

Oh btw, how are you gonna get to the bridge? Won't people start to notice lasers blowing up in mid air, whilst fighting a fleet capable of stealth and put two and two together?

[karadron]

Just a little bit about what the Lusankya's shields look like.

Its shields handled much of the power generated—an amount equivalent to the total power of a medium star (3.8 × 1026 W). Shield-projectors were placed throughout the hull, which decentralized the protection system and decreased the chance of all shields falling at once. Known shield segments included the dorsal, ventral, bow, aft, port and starboard shields. In later-model ships, an extra shield generator was mounted in the middle of the ship.

Edited October 6, 2013 by karadron

[Beniboybling]

Alright, since you seem to be know all of this already, please tell us how much per section, and how much each shot from your cannon can break?

 

Though if what an earlier poster suggest was true, and the Rebel Fleet had 40+ capital ships * i highly doubt it, i estimate that around 20* and it only took a few minutes from that many capital ships not counting the smaller vessels, then how much power do you think it will take to break a small section with one ship, when it took so many more to drop the entire thing.

 

Also, if it is powerful enough to drop it with one blast, i highly doubt that you will be able to keep stealth, since the entire reason you got access to stealth, and to 3 addition capital ships was supposedly because the Lusankya would be way too tough to take down without it. However, if you manage to prove that the Merciless is able to 1-2 shot the main parts of the Lusankya, i do wonder what will happen to those bonuses.

The Lusankya's shields were spread equally across its hull, as such neither area would be more difficult to break than another. And as I have demonstrated in post #116 one shot should feasibly be enough.

 

And we've gone over this many times already, you cannot compare a fleet of Rebel ships with an ion cannon.

 

And I was never expecting to keep stealth, if you read my scenario you'd know that the Merciless will decloak and fire immediately (which it was capable of doing), fire on the bridge, and then collide with the cityscape - prior to firing a final shot at point blank range to ensure maximum damage.

 

And finally, idle threats aren't going to get you anywhere and I don't take kindly to them. I suggest a different tactic.

[Silenceo]

Already posted that Karadron, he is attempting to prove that the Lusankya's shields are weaker due to greater surface area. If it was from RL he might be right, but this is star wars after all, and them shields are not as weak as RL says they should be.

 

Also, i CAN compare a fleet of rebel ships, equipped with many many small ion cannons, to one ship with a much bigger ion cannon. They are both ion cannons, just of different size.

 

That was not much of a threat, as much as a question to the judges. You seem to think everything is a threat... And like i said, please PROVE how powerful your cannon really is, because from what i have seen both in the facts, and in the game mechanics, is that it CAN NOT one shot the shields.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

Oh btw, how are you gonna get to the bridge? Won't people start to notice lasers blowing up in mid air, whilst fighting a fleet capable of stealth and put two and two together?

That would only happen if the Lusankya was firing on its own ships. But it will be firing at a far more diagonal trajectory. Essentially this means the Merciless can swoop under the enemy ships, which will be clear of fire. And move at a path diagonal to those ships which will also be completely clear of fire.

[Selenial]

That would only happen if the Lusankya was firing on its own ships. But it will be firing at a far more diagonal trajectory. Essentially this means the Merciless can swoop under the enemy ships, which will be clear of fire. And move at a path diagonal to those ships which will also be completely clear of fire.

 

Also, won't the Lusankya notice you stealthing and be more Weary?

Besides, if you leave the Lusankya unchecked, there's the chance it'll do enough damage to your fleet in the time it takes your slow *** to get into position...

 

And also, the energy fluctuations to charge your weapon would likely be noticed by scanners, and as it's right by the bridge they'd probably re-route shields....

[karadron]

That would only happen if the Lusankya was firing on its own ships. But it will be firing at a far more diagonal trajectory. Essentially this means the Merciless can swoop under the enemy ships, which will be clear of fire. And move at a path diagonal to those ships which will also be completely clear of fire.

 

So the Merciless is going to swing around Silenceo's fleet to get into position, while the rest of your fleet moves over the Lusankya and through the fleet?