Fleet Battles Round 1 Battle 2 Silenceo vs Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

If I remember correctly I believe the rebel fleet started out around 50 or so capital ships strong mostly they were no match for all those imp II's because most of there capital ships were converted civilian ships.

[Beniboybling]

I think people are forgetting one important thing, the ion cannon. Comparing it to the firepower of the Rebel fleet is irrelevant as they were using conventional weaponry. They did not have massive ion cannon which should be able to take down any shield, that was at least what was said of the V-200 and the Merciless has a much, much bigger cannon. Given the fact that its not a case of ramming through the shield, but essentially reacting with it and causing it to fail, the ion cannon in theory should be enough.

 

Regardless, even if that alone doesn't take down the shield its charged with a plasma cannon shot in a pulse considerably more powerful than the average ion/plasma shot. If that isn't strong enough to take down the already weakened shields then I don't know what will.

 

I think we also need to reassess the battle which Rayla posted. I dug up some more information and it would seem the prior to the strike the Rebels took out the vessel's deflector shields. A Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser loaded with explosives then dropped out of hyperspace and collided with the bridge, this sent explosions through the entire vessel and all it took was a few blasts from some B-Wing bombers to take it down. There was also a roughly ten second gap between the time it emerged from hyperspace and point of collision, during that period the SSD fired on the cruiser but it didn't blow up, and the Merciless is considerably more durable and the Lusankya will be in disarray.

 

Now the Merciless has to options here, it can either fire a plasma shot directly downward and then fly into the crater/exposed infrastructure and self destruct, or it can fire a plasma cannon at a random location and then swoop in and carve a path across the cityscape before coming to rest and exploding. Both will do massive damage and in all honesty I don't think the Lusanyka will recover fast enough from the lost of the bridge to focus fire. And even if they do I think the Merciless it capable of tanking several shots, even if it diverts shield power to engines.

 

EDIT: A good tactic would be flying in at a diagonal course then firing a plasma shot at the last moment at point blank range which would carve a massive hole for the Merciless to carve through and across before blowing up.

 

And yeah, if an exploding heavy cruiser which only hit the bridge is capable of crippling an Executor, I think a vessel three times as large which will also explode on impact (exploding reactor cores make a pretty big boom) on a ship that has already lost its bridge and suffered damage from a plasma cannon will do the job nicely.

 

And again in the slim chance that the ship isn't completely crippled and/or the second command center is still in tact the Skispray Blastboats can easily finish it off like the B-Wing bombers did.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

How devistating were the buzz droids in the clone wars? These are not a new threat to the Empire, in fact, once deployed they are not too hard to see and avoid. Though, it is worth to note that Though TIE fighters only have half the armor of your vipers, they do have a, hard to *grab onto* frame, game mechanics aside *in the game those things are indeed lethal*.

 

Just think about this for a second, they were deadly, but not exactly the worst thing that the Republic faced in the clone wars when engaging enemy fighters, and often the buzz droids were able to clamp down about halfway down the jedi's ship. Now look at the Tie Fighter. Other than the cockpit that is all lines, no half way. It will also be difficult for the buzz droids to grab onto the sides of one, due to the fact they are just hanging in space with no known propulsion system, as well as how quickly the fighter is passing by.

 

While effective, the buzz droids i do not believe will mean catastrophic failure the TIE fighters.

]Good point about the design of the TIE-fighter, however considering they'll be flying through a screen of them I expect a few of them will be able to latch on too the wings, remembering that the droids have manuevring jets which allows them to actually target fighters rather than hope for an impact.

 

And really one buzz droid should be enough, the TIE fighters don't have any astromech units for defense and I don't fancy their chances once say the viewport if fogged up, the solar panels are torn off or the fuel lines are cut. Also:

 

The TIE/Ln starfighter's eponymous twin ion engines are also notoriously easy to sabotage; all it takes is moving an energizer out of alignment for a TIE's recharge systems for them to become time bombs.

 

And given that the Zann Consortium could actually manufacture TIE-fighters I expect they'd have the schematics programmed into the buzz droids, they will know exactly were to go and what to sabotage. Exploding TIE fighters is certainly going to make things messy for those incoming Interceptors.

 

I also don't see them as easily avoidable, never have buzz droids been dodged before - nor where they used at all by the Rebels - because they explode in a screen right in front of the enemy, usually they don't even notice at first that they are suddenly coated in buzz droids tearing their ship apart. Nor were they used in such numbers during the Clone Wars, regardless they gave Jedi pilots trouble and in one occasion almost killed Anakin.

[Beniboybling]

I few things I'd like to add to my battle strategy:

 

As the SDs come into range those equipped with mass driver cannons will focus fire on the bridges, in theory a stream of accurate and well placed shots should be enough to destroy the main bridge and/or the shield generators. In the event that they have secondary bridges the mass drivers can divert fire to the tiered superstructure in an attempt to take that out to. But in general the bridge of the Star Destroyer is extremely vulnerable.

 

In regards to when my fleets charge the enemy ranks, they'll be performing an Ackbar Slash attack which involves forcing themselves between the enemy formation and making them hesitant to fire, lest they shoot are their own ships. And if they do choose to fire they may end up shooting their own ships, on top of that they'll only be able to bring half their weapons to bear whereas my fleets will be able to attack from both sides.

 

I think in general its important to take into account the lethality of mass drivers, within the Star Wars universe naval battles are usually presented in such a way that when the shields fail everything goes to hell. And given that the mass drivers can fire on shield generators without impunity and have shield leeching tech they won't last long.

[Silenceo]

What you are saying is making sense, but i still feel you are drastically over estimating your Ion cannon. It is strong, but it is definitely not strong enough to one shot the Lusankya's shields. Even when it is backed up by the plasma blast.

 

In-fact, the http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/V-150_anti-orbital_ion_cannon which the rebels use was much more effective in taking out shield out during the battle of Hoth than any ship mounted weaponry. How did it do it? Why the rebels stole a reactor from a high tech http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Praetor-class_Star_Battlecruiser and plugged it in that allowed it to use the power of a ship far more powerful than a start destroyer in a single volley of shots.

 

The rebels may not have had a big ion cannon at the battle of Endor, but they did have many, MANY small ion cannons on every ship. Though not as effective as your big ion cannon, do remember just how many of them there were.

 

The main weapons of the Aggressor class star destroyer essentially just took a great deal of the firepower that most star destroyers had as regular guns, and put it into two shots, one for the plasma, one for the ion. Such a design would allow the ship to essentially *burst* down an enemy in shorter time, but would limit how many targets it could hit and making it vulnerable if its cannons were ever taken out.

 

While impressive, the ion/plasma shots are NOT shield piercing, and do not have enough juice to one shot a section of the Lusankya's shields.

[Silenceo]

Wait, so you would be advancing your forces....right above the Lusankya? Because on both attack and on defense that is where my ships will be by the time they engage. Wouldn't that be essentially be suicide?

 

If you were to perform an Ackbar Slash, yes it would limit the options and the attack potential of my MK II's and my frigates, HOWEVER, it would give the Lusankya clear shots to unleash its weapons. if it is in broad side position, that would have 2500 being able to target the approaching fleet. If they get right about the Lusankya, there will still be 2500 to the broad side for incoming ships, but there will be 2500 able to fire straight up. *2500 of the guns are on bottom, 2500 are on top, 1250 of each 2500 is on either side of the ship, most heavily concentrated in the city scape.*

 

Could be far more devastating than just duking it out with the broadside.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

What you are saying is making sense, but i still feel you are drastically over estimating your Ion cannon. It is strong, but it is definitely not strong enough to one shot the Lusankya's shields. Even when it is backed up by the plasma blast.

 

In-fact, the http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/V-150_anti-orbital_ion_cannon which the rebels use was much more effective in taking out shield out during the battle of Hoth than any ship mounted weaponry. How did it do it? Why the rebels stole a reactor from a high tech http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Praetor-class_Star_Battlecruiser and plugged it in that allowed it to use the power of a ship far more powerful than a start destroyer in a single volley of shots.

 

The rebels may not have had a big ion cannon at the battle of Endor, but they did have many, MANY small ion cannons on every ship. Though not as effective as your big ion cannon, do remember just how many of them there were.

 

The main weapons of the Aggressor class star destroyer essentially just took a great deal of the firepower that most star destroyers had as regular guns, and put it into two shots, one for the plasma, one for the ion. Such a design would allow the ship to essentially *burst* down an enemy in shorter time, but would limit how many targets it could hit and making it vulnerable if its cannons were ever taken out.

 

While impressive, the ion/plasma shots are NOT shield piercing, and do not have enough juice to one shot a section of the Lusankya's shields.

I don't see any hard evidence here that points to the Merciless not been capable taking down shields with a single shot. The ion cannon was designed to do exactly that. And this isn't just a conventional burst, the Merciless is capable of unleashing a volley considerably more powerful than the standard. If your suggesting that it only has the output of a conventional star destroyer focusing all its batteries then I'd disagree, not only does no ship dedicate all the power of its reactor solely to ion cannons, but the Aggressor is specifically designed to be a massive cannon. We should therefore assume its ion capabilities were far far more dedicated.

 

Indeed the Aggressor is basically a walking ion cannon. Why do you think its so slow and doesn't have any other guns? Because its dedicating almost all of its energy into that one cannon.

 

Also consider that it will all be centralized in the same place, the Rebel Fleet couldn't possibly have been capable such precision. Nor would they be capable of all firing at once, the shield in this case will have no time to recharge.

 

That's without taking into account the fact that the shields will also have to withstand the force of a charged plasma shot which itself would be capable of knocking out the shields of standard star destroyer. If the ion particles are not enough then the plasma will most certainly be.

[Silenceo]

In the game, where we get most of the information for the Consortium, doesn't it take multiple shots to drop a single MK I's shields?

 

You still are overestimating the cannon and underestimating the shields.

 

Yes, it has much power dedicated to that single weapon, that can be devastating, but not in a short time frame against something as powerfully shielded and armed as the Lusankya. If fired from range it most likely could whittle down the shields over time. But up close, it is almost a certainty it will be destroyed before it can fire enough to take down its bridge shield, and isn't the bridge the most heavily shielded part of the entire vessel?

 

Also, Rebel Fleet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>One Aggressor's firepower, even in a concentrated area.

 

If it was powerful enough to one shot a Super Star Destroyers shields, they would not have just been plans or blueprints on the Death Star, they would have been in mass production.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Silenceo

[Selenial]

Just want to point something out...

 

Theoretically the Lusankya wouldn't have an Issue with Mass Driver Canons... Kinetic Shields stop Mass Drivers, and as the lusankya has multiple shield Generators, could It not have both Kinetic and Energy shields up?

 

Oh, and which would do more damage? The Mass Drivers or Lasers? Because Silenceo's fleet could just use Kinetic Shielding if the former is the case...

 

[Silenceo]

Probably could find something concerning that if we were to research the scene when Han Solo fled into the asteroid field. If i remember right, the Executor had no issues with the asteroids, though the star destroyers had a rougher time, they were not instantly destroyed *though one did take a large asteroid to the bridge*.

 

I think those are called http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Particle_shield Particle shields.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

In the game, where we get most of the information for the Consortium, doesn't it take multiple shots to drop a single MK I's shields?

 

You still are overestimating the cannon and underestimating the shields.

 

Yes, it has much power dedicated to that single weapon, that can be devastating, but not in a short time frame against something as powerfully shielded and armed as the Lusankya. If fired from range it most likely could whittle down the shields over time. But up close, it is almost a certainty it will be destroyed before it can fire enough to take down its bridge shield, and isn't the bridge the most heavily shielded part of the entire vessel?

 

Also, Rebel Fleet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>One Aggressor's firepower, even in a concentrated area.

 

If it was powerful enough to one shot a Super Star Destroyers shields, they would not have just been plans or blueprints on the Death Star, they would have been in mass production.

The Aggressor would have been and was extremely expensive, no way could they have been mass produced. And in reality they would have been torn apart by the Rebellion's superior fighters. Anyway no ship in EaW was capable of withstanding the Aggressor's cannon, their shields dropped completely ever time SD included.

 

we have an example, apologies for the bad quality.

 

Now a planetary ion cannon was capable of taking down the shields of an SD with one shot (the second immobilizing the vessel completely) Given that the Merciless is practically a floating ion cannon and the pulses it produces are at least two times as large. I'd assume a single blast is two times as powerful. Remembering that the reactor used by an Imperial-II was almost 20% more powerful than the reactor said cannon used, and given that the Merciless is a floating gun with little other weapons and slow engines, and a similar size to the Imperial-II we can assume it demanded a considerable amount of power, at least as much as the Imperial-II if not even more.

 

And in all honesty, I don't believe the shields of an SSD are much more powerful. If we compare peak reactor output the (SSD 7.73 × 10 to the power of 26 and SD 9.28 ×10 to the power of 24) the SSD is only that much superior. Remembering that the SD has a vastly larger surface area than an SD and so the SD's reactor output must be multiplied accordingly. I'd estimate 60-70 SDs in an SSD which means a reactor output of between roughly 5.5 and 6.5 × 10 to the power of 26 would be necessary to maintain the same shield strength. That's roughly a 15-30% increase.

 

So with a single shot from the Merciless being at least twice as powerful as a single shot from an ion cannon, it would feasibly be more than enough to take down the Lusankya's shields, the shield strength of which isn't even twice as powerful than a SD. And if in the slightest instance that that does not happen, the follow up charged plasma shot (two times as powerful as a regular shot) will easily finish it off and blow the bridge to pieces.

 

Indeed EaW displays the Merciless as being capable of taking down its shields. See

engagement.

[Wolfninjajedi]

EAW also shows that a fleet of CR90 Corvettes can take out an ISD. OPness! Edited October 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[karadron]

• 
  

EAW also shows that a fleet of CR90 Corvettes can take out an ISD. OPness!

 

And that is why I don't consider game mechanics in these fights.

[Selenial]

EAW also shows that a fleet of CR90 Corvettes can take out an ISD. OPness!

 

Empire at war also says that one Star Viper squadron can take out an Executor (Auto-resolved and lost it :/)

[Silenceo]

Comparing your Aggressor to the rebel cannon is foolish, because of the second link i had. That cannon, which deactivated ships easily as you say, had the reactor of a http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Praetor-class_Star_Battlecruiser which is MUCH more powerful than any capital ship.

 

Also, in that clip you linked, it was an entire fleet directing its firepower on the star destroyer...a better video would be Aggressor 1 vs 1 and show the star destroyer health, since your ship is exclusively from the game, would be the closest we could get.

 

Matter of fact, going to reinstall my version of forces of corrupt right now to run some tests.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Silenceo

[Wolfninjajedi]

Empire at war also says that one Star Viper squadron can take out an Executor (Auto-resolved and lost it :/)

 

Lol! XD

[Selenial]

Lol! XD

 

I literally Rage quit and didn't play again for a couple months -_-

[Silenceo]

Just played a skirmish against a hard ai in FoC, and when it used the Aggressor class against my Imperial MK I, it took about 25% of the shield *though oddly enough the plasma blast did go straight for the hull, which i do not remember*

[Beniboybling]

Comparing your Aggressor to the rebel cannon is foolish, because of the second link i had. That cannon, which deactivated ships easily as you say, had the reactor of a http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Praetor-class_Star_Battlecruiser which is MUCH more powerful than any capital ship.

 

Also, in that clip you linked, it was an entire fleet directing its firepower on the star destroyer...a better video would be Aggressor 1 vs 1 and show the star destroyer health, since your ship is exclusively from the game, would be the closest we could get.

 

Matter of fact, going to reinstall my version of forces of corrupt right now to run some tests.

Even with Executor? Of course not. That is I'm afraid pure conjecture, we don't even know if that ship was above average. Anyway I did actually cover this in the above post, though in hindsight I could have been clearer:

 

==================================================

 

Now a planetary ion cannon was capable of taking down the shields of an SD with one shot (the second immobilizing the vessel completely) Given that the Merciless is practically a floating ion cannon and the pulses it produces are at least two times as large. I'd assume a single blast is two times as powerful. Remembering that the reactor used by an Imperial-II was almost 20% more powerful than the reactor said cannon used, and given that the Merciless is a floating gun with little other weapons and slow engines, and a similar size to the Imperial-II we can assume it demanded a considerable amount of power, at least as much as the Imperial-II if not even more.

 

==================================================

 

The Imperial-II had a bigger reactor than the Praetor. And I'd assume the Merciless' reactor was even bigger. Just consider for a moment the sheer amount of energy it would require to fire a ion cannon of that magnitude, immediately followed by a plasma shot of equal magnitude. Bearing in mind the Merciless can increase the output of the plasma cannon by double. The power required would be colossal. And on top of that its got to power the ships computer systems, its engines and it shields. Which alone consumes massive amounts of power.

 

Indeed I find it hard/impossible to believe that it uses less energy than an Imperial-II which even with the combined firepower of all its cannons does not pack the same amount of punch as the Merciless.

 

In regards to the clips, the SD received a brief volley of laser fire, nothing major. I doubt it had much impact on the shields. And in regards to the

, the SSD didn't come under any laser fire at all. Just mass drivers.

[Beniboybling]

EAW also shows that a fleet of CR90 Corvettes can take out an ISD. OPness!

Regardless of that, the theory bears weight, and in that sense this is just a representation of the facts.

 

That said I would say a fleet of corvettes could handle one ISD. Else the Rebels would have LOLfailed the war.

[Beniboybling]

Empire at war also says that one Star Viper squadron can take out an Executor (Auto-resolved and lost it :/)

Oh my! I can only offer my condolences.

[Beniboybling]

Just played a skirmish against a hard ai in FoC, and when it used the Aggressor class against my Imperial MK I, it took about 25% of the shield *though oddly enough the plasma blast did go straight for the hull, which i do not remember*

Its possible effectiveness etc. scales with difficult. I for one only ever play easy or medium. The fact that the Merciless can take down the shields of an SSD on some difficulties suggests this.

 

Anyway I'd much prefer we refer to the facts when possible.

[tunewalker]

Its possible effectiveness etc. scales with difficult. I for one only ever play easy or medium. The fact that the Merciless can take down the shields of an SSD on some difficulties suggests this.

 

Anyway I'd much prefer we refer to the facts when possible.

 

Honestly I would think it would be more accurate on the highest difficulties most of the time when I play strategy games the higher the difficulty the more "realistic" they are...... in some cases.

[Beniboybling]

Honestly I would think it would be more accurate on the highest difficulties most of the time when I play strategy games the higher the difficulty the more "realistic" they are...... in some ca.ses.

I don't know my friend, I'm pretty sure the Rebels would have ROFL stomped the Empire on higher difficulty.

 

MC30 Frigates + B-wings = Hell.

 

Regardless I think at this point we should just let Rayla make the decision.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

I don't know my friend, I'm pretty sure the Rebels would have ROFL stomped the Empire on higher difficulty.

 

MC30 Frigates + B-wings = Hell.

 

Regardless I think at this point we should just let Rayla make the decision.

 

like I said.... in some cases.... lol