The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 14: Cin Drallig vs. Ki-Adi Mundi

[Aurbere]

Their heads are too big for my liking, a prefer humans, because I'm xenophobic.

 

Yeah, their heads are pretty large. I used to call them 'tall-heads' until I found out what they could do.

 

Still call them 'tall-heads' though.

[Beniboybling]

Yeah, their heads are pretty large. I used to call them 'tall-heads' until I found out what they could do.

 

Still call them 'tall-heads' though.

Hmmm, Mundi was also a notorious womaniser.

 

"I need five wives because my species is facing extinction!"

 

Sure pal, suuuure.

[Aurbere]

Hmmm, Mundi was also a notorious womaniser.

 

"I need five wives because my species is facing extinction!"

 

Sure pal, suuuure.

 

Apparently that's how every Cerean works. Let's face it, survival of the species is a secondary objective.

[tunewalker]

It will only really buy him time, the fact remains that he was defeated by Grievous' superior lightsaber ability. Likewise Cin Drallig will defeat him in the same way. Advanced reflexes might help him defend against Drallig's attacks but it won't make his own attacks any faster or more accurate, or more skillfully performed for that matter.

 

Cin Drallig as a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat is more than capable of defending against Mundi's onslaught and on top of that is capable of exploiting its weaknesses. Inevitably Mundi will tire, Ataru not been suited to prolonged lightsaber duels, and when that happens reflexes won't safe him from Drallig's superior bladework.

 

A slow reaction time can kill even the greatest of blade masters. Drallig may have the knowledge of how to defend and the skills to execute said neccisarry knowledge but a half second slow reaction time can be the different between life and death. This was seen in many duels, such as the duels like Vader facing the droids they have the mastered knowledge of 12 sword/lightsaber forms and yet one was reacted a fraction of a second to slow to one of Vader's feints and ended up sliced in half because of it.

 

Further Mundi while not AS skilled does appear to be close enough that reaction time and thought process could give him enough of an edge in a saber duel to pull out a win.

 

Further more the force powers are not entirely obsolete or useless as with Mundi's mind he can find ways to push to throw Drallig off-balance long enough for Drallig's slower reaction time to be the death of him against Mundi's ataru frenzy. Don't count Mundi out here....

 

 

 

P.S sorry been busy watching a kickstarter and playing old side scrolling games and with the new patch should be able to give you guys more of a fight now that I am here a little bit more

[Beniboybling]

A slow reaction time can kill even the greatest of blade masters. Drallig may have the knowledge of how to defend and the skills to execute said neccisarry knowledge but a half second slow reaction time can be the different between life and death. This was seen in many duels, such as the duels like Vader facing the droids they have the mastered knowledge of 12 sword/lightsaber forms and yet one was reacted a fraction of a second to slow to one of Vader's feints and ended up sliced in half because of it.

 

Further Mundi while not AS skilled does appear to be close enough that reaction time and thought process could give him enough of an edge in a saber duel to pull out a win.

 

Further more the force powers are not entirely obsolete or useless as with Mundi's mind he can find ways to push to throw Drallig off-balance long enough for Drallig's slower reaction time to be the death of him against Mundi's ataru frenzy. Don't count Mundi out here....

 

 

 

P.S sorry been busy watching a kickstarter and playing old side scrolling games and with the new patch should be able to give you guys more of a fight now that I am here a little bit more

But your getting confused here. Mundi can react faster than Drallig, he cannot move faster. The former is a question of reflexes, the latter is a question of Force power and physical ability.

 

So all that can be said here is that Mundi isn't going to be cut down because of slow reactions, he's not going to be caught out by a rapid feint etc. but it does not work vice versa. Mundi is not fast enough, nor powerful enough in the Force, to move quick enough to catch Drallig off guard. I mean I hardly think the disparity is the same as it is between a droid an a considerably powerful Sith Lord.

 

Essentially its only useful for defense not attack. I could have the fastest reflexes in the world but that wouldn't make me any faster. Nor are Force powers going to give Mundi an edge. Drallig can throw up Force shields to protect himself. And again, fast reflexes do not equal fast movements - at all. They only allow you to mentally process information faster, it has no impact on your physical agility whatsoever.

[tunewalker]

But your getting confused here. Mundi can react faster than Drallig, he cannot move faster. The former is a question of reflexes, the latter is a question of Force power and physical ability.

 

So all that can be said here is that Mundi isn't going to be cut down because of slow reactions, he's not going to be caught out by a rapid feint etc. but it does not work vice versa. Mundi is not fast enough, nor powerful enough in the Force, to move quick enough to catch Drallig off guard. I mean I hardly think the disparity is the same as it is between a droid an a considerably powerful Sith Lord.

 

Essentially its only useful for defense not attack. I could have the fastest reflexes in the world but that wouldn't make me any faster. Nor are Force powers going to give Mundi an edge. Drallig can throw up Force shields to protect himself. And again, fast reflexes do not equal fast movements - at all. They only allow you to mentally process information faster, it has no impact on your physical agility whatsoever.

 

Faster reflexes when used offensively can be used to create and exploit weaknesses as you are able to catch them and REACT to them at a much faster rate. Mundi is powerful enough in the Force that a Dralligg isn't going to be able to defend against a force push from him, you have to be considerably more powerful then some one else to resist their force pushes and one well timed push is all Mundi would need to create that momentary opening and with his fast reflexes he will be able to respond to that opening when most opponents (and Drallig himself) would not be able to and thus Drallig would also fail to respond to the attack itself.

[Wolfninjajedi]

On a note Aurbere...aren't we able to use the ROTS game duel for Cin? As I seem to recall that is what you were using for said analysis for him in a post.

[Aurbere]

On a note Aurbere...aren't we able to use the ROTS game duel for Cin? As I seem to recall that is what you were using for said analysis for him in a post.

 

Well, I didn't say we were using the duel itself. I said that I was using Drallig's combat style in game as it is the best evidence of his combat style.

 

However, we could use the duel, aside from the parts that contradict the movie.

[Beniboybling]

Faster reflexes when used offensively can be used to create and exploit weaknesses as you are able to catch them and REACT to them at a much faster rate. Mundi is powerful enough in the Force that a Dralligg isn't going to be able to defend against a force push from him, you have to be considerably more powerful then some one else to resist their force pushes and one well timed push is all Mundi would need to create that momentary opening and with his fast reflexes he will be able to respond to that opening when most opponents (and Drallig himself) would not be able to and thus Drallig would also fail to respond to the attack itself.

But Drallig won't have an weaknesses to exploit, he is a master saber duelists with a likely very tight and effective style with minimal weaknesses. Remembering that Ataru is more geared to beating one's opponent down rather than exploiting openings.

 

Not that that changes the fact that recognizing the weaknesses will not increase the speed by which he exploits them. He'll be able to recognize them sooner but I feel he'd have to be a whole lot faster to exploit the weaknesses of a saber duelists of Drallig's caliber, who will quickly close the gaps, if their ever are any.

 

On the other hand Drallig can use Makashi and Soresu to exploit the weaknesses in Mundi's style - which he himself will have an intimate knowledge of.

 

And furthermore Ataru is not a style that naturally accommodates for timed Force pushes, regardless I'm not implying that Drallig will be immune, but throwing up a barrier will lessen the impact, as will he natural force barriers. But of course remembering that Drallig, being a master saber duelist, is more than capable of recovering quickly.

[tunewalker]

But Drallig won't have an weaknesses to exploit, he is a master saber duelists with a likely very tight and effective style with minimal weaknesses. Remembering that Ataru is more geared to beating one's opponent down rather than exploiting openings.

 

Not that that changes the fact that recognizing the weaknesses will not increase the speed by which he exploits them. He'll be able to recognize them sooner but I feel he'd have to be a whole lot faster to exploit the weaknesses of a saber duelists of Drallig's caliber, who will quickly close the gaps, if their ever are any.

 

On the other hand Drallig can use Makashi and Soresu to exploit the weaknesses in Mundi's style - which he himself will have an intimate knowledge of.

 

And furthermore Ataru is not a style that naturally accommodates for timed Force pushes, regardless I'm not implying that Drallig will be immune, but throwing up a barrier will lessen the impact, as will he natural force barriers. But of course remembering that Drallig, being a master saber duelist, is more than capable of recovering quickly.

 

Ataru would actually be very common to use force powers more specifically ataru was very common to use the whole body as a weapon and Mundi did use his force powers with his saber on occassion to throw his opponent off guard or create openings in them this is the same thing I am suggesting here. Being able to react to an opening faster IS being able to exploit it faster if you attack a second faster then even if your speed is not greater your attack will arrive a second earlier. Mundi is unique in the respect that thanks to his reflexes his Ataru can still have incredibly solid defense and can be used to create and abuse openings. And again the way Ataru "beats some one down" isn't the same way Djem So does so it doesn't power through their defenses it attacks at great speed in multiple angles to overwhelm defense by causeing the opponent to be unable to react fast enough to the next attack. That's exactly what I am pruposing will happen through use of his body and force abilities to attack (ataru accomidates this and Mundi has been known to do these on occasion) he can force an opening in Drallig and I fraction of a second opening with Mundi's reflexes will be all it takes to put Drallig on his back foot and end it.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well, I didn't say we were using the duel itself. I said that I was using Drallig's combat style in game as it is the best evidence of his combat style.

 

However, we could use the duel, aside from the parts that contradict the movie.

 

Well then I can confidently say that Cin could win, he did well against Vader(would actually go as far to say he was whooping his ***). Also to the Force Push thing, Cin did resist Vader's Push so he should be able to do the same for Mundi here.

[tunewalker]

oh wait so we are using that fight...... well then Cin can probably win this his abilities seem a bit more pronounced at the same time though I still don't want to count Mundi out entirely I will need more time to think up my position on this.

[Beniboybling]

Ataru would actually be very common to use force powers more specifically ataru was very common to use the whole body as a weapon and Mundi did use his force powers with his saber on occassion to throw his opponent off guard or create openings in them this is the same thing I am suggesting here. Being able to react to an opening faster IS being able to exploit it faster if you attack a second faster then even if your speed is not greater your attack will arrive a second earlier. Mundi is unique in the respect that thanks to his reflexes his Ataru can still have incredibly solid defense and can be used to create and abuse openings. And again the way Ataru "beats some one down" isn't the same way Djem So does so it doesn't power through their defenses it attacks at great speed in multiple angles to overwhelm defense by causeing the opponent to be unable to react fast enough to the next attack. That's exactly what I am pruposing will happen through use of his body and force abilities to attack (ataru accomidates this and Mundi has been known to do these on occasion) he can force an opening in Drallig and I fraction of a second opening with Mundi's reflexes will be all it takes to put Drallig on his back foot and end it.

If it all it takes is heightened reflexes and a Force push to kill Drallig then he doesn't deserve the title Battlemaster.

 

Noting that a Force push pushes an opponent away from you, giving them more than enough time to recover. Remember when Zannah tripped up on a rock and went sprawling across the floor? Did she die? No. Despite having a cracked rib she managed to deflect all of Bane's attacks by falling into routine and get away. It will be even easier for Drallig who is altogether a superior duelist to Zannah and to his opponent, will have suffered no injury and would have been pushed away from his opponent.

 

Indeed I can't think of a single instance where a Force push has lend to a killing blow.

 

So Mundi can Force push him if he likes but by the time Mundi moves in to strike Drallig will have recovered and will parry the attack expertly or otherwise exploit Mundi's reckless charge.

 

As in terms of how potent the attack will be, I expect it to be no more potent that

Note how Anakin quickly recovers and how a charging his opponent could not have possibly helped Dooku in any feasible way.

 

Heck any more potent and it just widens the gap and gives Drallig more time to recover.

[Aurbere]

I'm not sure if we are going to use the duel. I'll think on it some more.

[Aurbere]

OK, I have decided to exclude the Vader vs. Drallig duel from this match-up.

 

Unless someone can provide me with a good timeline of events, of course. I had hoped the recording depicted in Dark Nest would have done this, but it's just as vague as any other source.

[Aurbere]

Alright, so unless anyone has any further thoughts, I'm going to work on a final decision.

[Beniboybling]

Alright, so unless anyone has any further thoughts, I'm going to work on a final decision.

Feel free.

[Aurbere]

OK, decision time. Since this discussion didn't carry on long enough for the need for scenarios to be posted, I will forget that part as well.

 

Final Verdict:

 

 

Ki-Adi Mundi's physical capabilities are certainly a boon to his efforts here, but his other skills are certainly lacking in comparison. There can be no doubt that Mundi can hold his own for a long period of time, but he can't dominate the combat. Cin Drallig can. Master Mundi will be on the defensive for the majority of the duel. His physical capabilities will allow him to retaliate, but these counter-attacks will be short-lived, as Drallig can cover himself with his mastery of defensive forms and quickly return to the offensive.

 

And the small disparity between their Force abilities is minimal to the point that the effects Force-based attacks will have are almost non-existent. As already said, Mundi can stay on the defensive for a long time, but eventually his defense will be overwhelmed, and he will be defeated by Cin Drallig.

 

I declare Cin Drallig the winner!

 

 

A thank you to all who participated.

 

The next match shall pit the Count of Serenno against Revan's great descendant. Coming soon to The BattleZone!

Edited October 3, 2013 by Aurbere

[sell-dog]

Be on the lookout for the next match, coming soon.

 

In the past, there has sometimes been a hint as to who's in the next match. Is this one of those times or no?

[Aurbere]

In the past, there has sometimes been a hint as to who's in the next match. Is this one of those times or no?

 

Oh sure. Let me add that in real quick.

[sell-dog]

Oh sure. Let me add that in real quick.

 

Thanks!

 

And that will be awesome!!!

Edited October 3, 2013 by sell-dog

[Beniboybling]

The next match shall pit the Count of Serenno against Revan's great descendant. Coming soon to The BattleZone!

Count Dooku vs... Satele Shan!

[Aurbere]

Yes. Count Dooku vs. Satele Shan. A fairly good match-up, if I do say so myself.

[Luckeyduckey]

I put my money on Dooku.