Wolfninjajedi Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I think the bigger question here is....is Dash piloting The Outrider? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I think the bigger question here is....is Dash piloting The Outrider? I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Unfortunately the three battle-dragons are surrounded by a lot of firepower, going on the offensive would basically be suicide, the only victory I can see for the Mon Cal cruisers is to use Defender Wing and other fighters to beat down on the frigates that Xakthul has, however Xakthul seems to have gone with the support carrier approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Unfortunately the three battle-dragons are surrounded by a lot of firepower, going on the offensive would basically be suicide, the only victory I can see for the Mon Cal cruisers is to use Defender Wing and other fighters to beat down on the frigates that Xakthul has, however Xakthul seems to have gone with the support carrier approach. I think the DP20s would be useful in an attack like that. They can assist in taking out fighters, and can use their missiles to take out Xakthul's corvettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Xakthul time for you to get in on this, you are after all a combatant. You know more about the Hapans than we do so go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xakthul Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I'm pretty sure that HBD's in general (if not, at least on Song of War,) Can change the firing angle of their turret guns. Besides this, they are exceptionally quick, accurate guns, contrary to above posts. A Dragon, while possibly being smaller than a Star Defender (depending on what era we're talking about,) the turret guns could easily take out a Super Star Destroyer, let alone a Star Defender. And. And even besides that, Song of War is a massive, over-armed and armored Dragon. There goes the Cal Defender Same argument for HBD vs MC90s. Plus, the Republic- class Destroyer has far more firepower and armor than the MC90 in it's final iteration. Corvette-wise, the Marauder about matches the Neb-B2 for firepower and armor, though possibly not for speed. The Blockade Runner (the CR90 'Vette), however has far more firepower and speed than the Neb-B2. Fighter-wise, B-Wings are basically made to be sent in three-to-one odds. They are shown throughout canon as being able to fight off multiple opponents at once. This would include Y-Wings, which are nicely armored, but nowhere near as fast or agile as a B-Wing at top speed. Freighters..... hmm. With Talon Karrde and his crew at the wheel, Dash better watch his ***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 While possibly being smaller than a Star Defender (depending on what era we're talking about,) the turret guns could easily take out a Super Star Destroyer It took multiple sabotage attempts and the Millennium Falcon destroying the top half of the bridge tower of the Iron Fist, removing pretty much any capability for the ship to defend itself before the Hapan Fleet could attack and destroy it. It seems you are embellishing a little...... to say the least, it could certainly not one vs one a Super Star Destroyer with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xakthul Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 It took multiple sabotage attempts and the Millennium Falcon destroying the top half of the bridge tower of the Iron Fist, removing pretty much any capability for the ship to defend itself before the Hapan Fleet could attack and destroy it. It seems you are embellishing a little...... to say the least, it could certainly not one vs one a Super Star Destroyer with ease. Okay....not easily, but still. 1v1, the Song of War especially, would be able to take out the Executor. The Mon Cal Star Defenders were only made to combat the conventional Star Destroyers of the time (please remind me what class that is). HBD's were made to combat anything up 'till a Vongie Carrier. Vongie Carrier > Star Defender, HBD > Star Defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Okay....not easily, but still. 1v1, the Song of War especially, would be able to take out the Executor. The Mon Cal Star Defenders were only made to combat the conventional Star Destroyers of the time (please remind me what class that is). HBD's were made to combat anything up 'till a Vongie Carrier. Vongie Carrier > Star Defender, HBD > Star Defender. Viscount-class Star Defenders were built to combat Executor-class Star Dreadnoughts. I still do not see any evidence of how a single Hapan Battle Dragon no matter how armed to the teeth it is, can take down a Star Dreadnought especially an Executor-class, if you would like to show me how please feel free, I am just not seeing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I do not see how a Battle Dragon can take out a Viscount-class. Not without some serious back-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xakthul Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I do not see how a Battle Dragon can take out a Viscount-class. Not without some serious back-up. The Song of War has a complement of almost 180 fighters, besides its own power. The main guns (the turrets) are supplemented by Ion cannons to rip through shields and hulls. The Miy'til fighters, which I had forgotten until you brought this up are important as well. The Miy'til are able to, not outgun, but easily evade any new Republic ship, with the possible exception of heavily refitted A or E-Wings. The "command" class Miy'til are much more heavily armed, incorporating two more cannons and faster engines. Just for lore purposes, I'm gonna include the Storm-type refit typified by Storm, Prince Isolder's personal fighter. This refit included one set of three fire-linked cannons, two ion cannons, one set of concussion missile launch tubes in each wing (so two sets), and a thermal detonator launcher in each wing. This was basically the refit adopted by Tenel Ka Djo when she took over the throne of the Hapan Queen Mother. This is also upgraded in the Legacy era, along with numerous upgrades to the HBDs in the Legacy era, making them more like Song of War, which was a rather advanced ship, incorporating more auxiliary targeting computers than the norm (which was 4,) and having much heavier armament and armor than a normal Dragon. In canon (Courtship of Princess Leia and the Vong conflict) the Dragons are mentioned to have a faster firing rate than an Executor-class Destroyer because of the nature of its turrets (which, as I already explained, incorporate anywhere between six and ten individual turbolasers depending on the size of the specific vessel,) and is quite able to out-maneuver the Executor, which had already proven to be easy to hide from if your strategy was good. I apologize for my earlier reasoning. I thought we were talking about the smaller class of Star Defender (so not Aubere's flagship). However, with the support from its fighters and the Republic Destroyer, my flagship can most likely take out Aubere's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Let us just agree to disagree, i get that Hapan battle dragons are unique in their design throughout the galaxy, but you have to remember just a few important, tiny, tiny things.... 1. Their targeting computers are crap, great against easy to hit, gigantic targets, useless against smaller targets. 2. They fire so fast due to rotating other cannons forward, if they are shooting in more than one direction, guess what? Severe decrease in firing speed. 3. They are not the only ship to have ion cannons. In fact, a great many capital, hell, even frigates, have ion cannons equipped. They are not end all, beat all weapons, they are simply another type of weapon that is more effective against shields that are used across the galaxy. I do have to concede that Hapan battle dragons DO have the most advanced Ion Cannons in the galaxy, but don't go and over- exaggerate them like this. They never could have, even if they wanted to, of been a threat to the major players in the galaxy had they chosen to try the path of conquest. 4. Their design has multiple errors that are easily exploitable, it looks more like a paper lantern than a battleship. I wonder if they have any armor at all... 5. If i remember right, their turbo-lasers are severely behind the rest of the galaxy, and are much less powerful than say a Star Destroyers Turbo-lasers. Even if it SOMEHOW managed to get the Executor's shields down 1 vs 1, it would take hours...HOURS to do lasting damage with those guns. Please do remember how heavily armored the Exector is, how powerful its shields are, how advanced its technology is compared to the rest, and how low tech in comparison Hapan lasers are. 6. Strangely enough, i can not seem to find much data to back up what you listed for the star fighters, though something seems off about them. Sorry if this came off as hostile, but Hapans ships are not their capital > a super star destroyer awesome. Like you seem to think they are. They are great, diverse, devious ships. They however, are NOT front-line ships that can withstand a beating for a sustained period of time as well as dish it out without severe malfunctions or damage taken. Good day, Sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I wouldn't say the Hapon's turbolasers are crap, they were upgraded after the New Republic got em with more modern turbolasers. Unless were going before that timeframe, but yeah....their tactics aren't that spectacular. The company who designed these should be ashamed of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 If nothing else, they most certainly are not accurate. If i remember correctly, their tactic with turbolasers was to create a wall of energy in a general direction and hope to hit the target, and best used with multiple Battle Dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 If nothing else, they most certainly are not accurate. If i remember correctly, their tactic with turbolasers was to create a wall of energy in a general direction and hope to hit the target, and best used with multiple Battle Dragons. I think they were designed to be deployed en masse. And I believe the term you are looking for is 'spray and pray.' @Xakthul. Here's the thing. In order to take out my flagship, you need backup. That is not a two-way street in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 On a note, Aurbere here has the 2nd fastest freighter in the galaxy The Outrider along with one of the best freighter pilots out there Dash Rendar. I'm not seeing it getting touched all that much, cause of course it may get a few dings here n there but other then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xakthul Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Fine. Got the **** straight now. My strategy would probably be to send Song of War and all three capital ships to attack the Star Defender, along with Nova Squadron and the full complement of fighters that come with it (that puts the fighters at about 336, plus Nova squadron) Meanwhile, the frigs, 'vettes, and the Karrde would be going after the rest of the fleet. The superior firepower of the Stellas and the Assault Frigates would take out the MC90s. The CR90s, Marauders, and Karrde would be going after the Corellian Gunships, and probably overwhelming the gunships with sheer numbers (not including the fighter complements to much here, as the further fighters from these ships would currently be attacking the Defender). About Outrider, I still don't know what I'd do to blow it up. I probably couldn't. As for Aubere's fighter wing, CR90s and Marauders are made to handle fighters and ships of their size range at the same time. Therefore, I have nixed everything but the Defender and Outrider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Well after some researching I think that the fighter compliments for both fleets are very similar, without factoring in the flagships. But using the information I have Aurbere has more fighters, actually about twelve. And if I factored in the flagships I'd say that number would be higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Fine. Got the **** straight now. My strategy would probably be to send Song of War and all three capital ships to attack the Star Defender, along with Nova Squadron and the full complement of fighters that come with it (that puts the fighters at about 336, plus Nova squadron) Meanwhile, the frigs, 'vettes, and the Karrde would be going after the rest of the fleet. The superior firepower of the Stellas and the Assault Frigates would take out the MC90s. The CR90s, Marauders, and Karrde would be going after the Corellian Gunships, and probably overwhelming the gunships with sheer numbers (not including the fighter complements to much here, as the further fighters from these ships would currently be attacking the Defender). About Outrider, I still don't know what I'd do to blow it up. I probably couldn't. As for Aubere's fighter wing, CR90s and Marauders are made to handle fighters and ships of their size range at the same time. Therefore, I have nixed everything but the Defender and Outrider. Either you seriously overestimate your own forces, or severely underestimate mine. Probably both. You have failed to take into account my frigates, and severely underestimate the MC90s. Dedicated warships of Mon Calamarian Design. These three vessels have far more firepower than your frigates do, and incredibly powerful shielding with powerful regenerative capabilities, and very strong armor. Your Corvettes can't overwhelm mine through sheer numbers because they are numerically equal. It is far more likely that your Corvette's will be overwhelmed by the superior firepower of the DP20s. These vessels were designed to attack capital ships. They have way more firepower than your Corvettes, with roughly equal speed. Also, I have about 472 fighters, some of which are some of the most advanced fighters the New Republic has ever built. That's not including Defender Wing. As for the battle with the Viscount. You are correct in sending all of your Battle Dragons to attack it, but by doing this you leave the rest of your forces at a severe disadvantage. The Viscount-class is a massive warship with over 5,000 weapons (2,000 heavy turbolasers, 2,000 standard turbolasers, 200 concussion missile launchers, 300 heavy ion cannons, and 500 point-defense cannons) better shielding than the MC90s, and incredibly heavy armor. Time to reassess your position, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 When the Viscount has shields for it's shields, which regenerate whilst the shields are shielding the shield's shield generators, you're gonna have trouble with the shield's shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 When the Viscount has shields for it's shields, which regenerate whilst the shields are shielding the shield's shield generators, you're gonna have trouble with the shield's shields. I dub them as troll shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 How does a VIscount's offensive capabilities match up against say an Executor Class star dreadnaught? I mean, Viscount obviously wins in the shield department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 How does a VIscount's offensive capabilities match up against say an Executor Class star dreadnaught? I mean, Viscount obviously wins in the shield department. They are closely matched actually. The only difference is the Executor lacks 50 more for Ion cannons while the Viscount lacks 50 more assault concussion missile tubes. Other than that difference, in terms of offensive capability they seem almost even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 So essentially the Executor could one shot most capital ships once their shields drop using some of their missiles? *the wiki states that the ones the executor used were great against capital ships* while the Viscount would be ideal for taking enemies shields down? Shields down goes to Executor Shields up goes to Viscount? Though, this does make me wonder how effective the missiles are against shielded targets. Just trying to learn a bit about the larger vessels strengths and weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Viscount-class Star Defender has everything in means of defence. Executor-class Star Dreadnought has everything in terms of speed, firepower and fighter superiority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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