Wolfninjajedi Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 But its not, the engines were way way ahead of their time. So the Sith fighters are therefore considerably superior to the Imperium's fighters - not matching. And concerning Interdictors and Centurions. I'd say with confidence that a Victory-II is superior to an Acclamator and a Imperial-II superior to an Acclamator. They were the superseding models. Simply put Revan's Sith Navy has some seriously powerful vessels at its command, the very best of the era and then some, they should not be underestimated. Ok yes ahead of their time...but how do you know they would be better than the ships of the later era? They have twin ion engines....the same engines that are used later on in TIE fighters. I don't see how they would be superior... Not seeing how this makes the Interdictors or Centurions better...yeah a Victory 2 is superior to an Acclamator and I guess a Venator. But your saying the Interdictors/Centurions are better then those?....That quote of Interdictors being comparable in power to a Victory 2 makes no sense, even then what is it meaning by power? Engine power? What? If someone has the Guide, showing that it is indeed right i'll say ok...but now it just doesn't make sense...kinda like that Qui-Gon quote of him dueling Windu when there wasn't a source. They are still outclassed in terms of how much firepower they could bring out anyway, even with the tech equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Ok yes ahead of their time...but how do you know they would be better than the ships of the later era? They have twin ion engines....the same engines that are used later on in TIE fighters. I don't see how they would be superior... Not seeing how this makes the Interdictors or Centurions better...yeah a Victory 2 is superior to an Acclamator and I guess a Venator. But your saying the Interdictors/Centurions are better then those?....That quote of Interdictors being comparable in power to a Victory 2 makes no sense, even then what is it meaning by power? Engine power? What? They are still outclassed in terms of how much firepower they could bring out anyway.Because of the tech rule! Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power. Every ship in Revan's Sith Navy was considerably advanced for its time, and those advantages carry over. Therefore said vessels would be considerably advanced in this Kaggath also. On the other hand the Republic Navy was (while impressive) pretty standard for its era, and therefore likely inferior to Revan's Sith Navy. We've been over this already haven't we? I'm using Victory's and Star Destroyers are examples to help people compare. With the 'tech boost' that Revan's Sith Navy is receiving, these are the sort of ships they would be on par with. Essentially Revan's Sith Navy is bigger and better than you currently perceive it to be. If you really want some 'canon' states then look to the Victory and the Imperial for the most accurate numbers. If you still don't understand then just roll with it - for the sake of fairness these 'upgrades' need to be made. EDIT: Come on Wolf, we have been over this already: ================================================== Which brings me the the updated Interdictor and Centurion stats. An Interdictor should be considered equal to a Victory II-class Star Destroyer and the Centurion an Imperial II-class Star Destroyer. The Interdictor however retains its 46 fighter capacity, and the Centurion 96. ================================================== Sources don't matter, as per Kaggath rules tech level is universal. Therefore Revan's vessels are upgraded to Open Circle Fleet period standards. Victory-II seems to fit the bill. This rule applies to all Kaggath's. If we have a situation in which the combatants are from different time periods, the earlier time period is brought up to the later time periods standards in terms of technology. That includes the effectiveness of weapons, armor and the firepower of ships. Especially that. I mean its hardly fair that the Interdictor, which was a deadly vessel in its time, is suddenly dwarfed by a ship of a later period with three times as many turbolaser batteries if not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 If I may interject something, just what is the source for the Interdictor being on the level of a Victory-II? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Because of the tech rule! Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power. Every ship in Revan's Sith Navy was considerably advanced for its time, and those advantages carry over. Therefore said vessels would be considerably advanced in this Kaggath also. On the other hand the Republic Navy was (while impressive) pretty standard for its era, and therefore likely inferior to Revan's Sith Navy. We've been over this already haven't we? I'm using Victory's and Star Destroyers are examples to help people compare. With the 'tech boost' that Revan's Sith Navy is receiving, these are the sort of ships they would be on par with. Essentially Revan's Sith Navy is bigger and better than you currently perceive it to be. If you really want some 'canon' states then look to the Victory and the Imperial for the most accurate numbers. If you still don't understand then just roll with it - for the sake of fairness these 'upgrades' need to be made. Yes I understand the tech rule, I was saying without the tech rule why would they be. But since because of this rule, why would any faction be superior over the other? As you said Revan's navy is. If I may interject something, just what is the source for the Interdictor being on the level of a Victory-II The New Essentials Guide to Technology and Weapons on page 22 supposedly, personally I don't see how it makes sense...but if someone has the book and actually can see the quote I would like to have it cleared up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 If I may interject something, just what is the source for the Interdictor being on the level of a Victory-II?The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, p. 22 Regardless I'd just make clear its irrelevant in light of the tech rule, though it does help give some indication as to which vessel the Interdictor should be compared to when making an 'upgrade'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Yes I understand the tech rule, I was saying without the tech rule why would they be. But since because of this rule, why would any faction be superior over the other? As you said Revan's navy is.Well that's a pointless question, because without the tech rule they wouldn't be... hence the tech rule. And I'm not sure what you mean by the next part. But I'd just say its my opinion that Revan's Navy is superior to the Open Circle Fleet, you are free to dispute that, in light of the vessel's updated stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Well, I do not have that guide, but I am planning on making a run to Barnes and Noble tomorrow, so maybe it will be there for purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Well, I do not have that guide, but I am planning on making a run to Barnes and Noble tomorrow, so maybe it will be there for purchase. Ok cause I want this thing cleared up. As for continuing on, nah I'm done...don't really care who wins this one anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Well, I do not have that guide, but I am planning on making a run to Barnes and Noble tomorrow, so maybe it will be there for purchase.Woah woah woah, mister. Your grounded until you post the next BattleZone! No Barnes and Noble for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Like to point out something the Acclamator and the Venerator are actually the Imperial II and the Galactic-class carrier of their day, or you can think of them as the Nebula-class and the Endurance-class of their day So ship to ship wise they should be about on par with one another. 1 to 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 HK mentions a lot of things that help to defeat Jedi, he will not be defeating Jedi, he will be fighting against the Sith. This is important. HK-47, I believe, talks mostly about playing to the Jedi's weaknesses, most notably their need to defend allies, even if it puts them at risk. Sith, on the other hand, will not have this weakness. All in all, I really don't see HK-47 as being that important in the debate. I haven't been too active in this thread, sorry for that. Super busy recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I still believe that Traya has a way of making things happen. What she wants to happen, does. That's how she operates, she manipulates events to her goals. So the big question is: what is Traya's master plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 This is important. HK-47, I believe, talks mostly about playing to the Jedi's weaknesses, most notably their need to defend allies, even if it puts them at risk. Sith, on the other hand, will not have this weakness. All in all, I really don't see HK-47 as being that important in the debate. I haven't been too active in this thread, sorry for that. Super busy recently.Jedi and Sith, with the exception of protecting allies, have the same weaknesses. Lets remember this is HK who was a two time Flashpoint Boss - and a hard one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Jedi and Sith, with the exception of protecting allies, have the same weaknesses. Lets remember this is HK who was a two time Flashpoint Boss - and a hard one at that. I'm not sure if that's really a credential, considering all of the other Flashpoint bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 I'm not sure if that's really a credential, considering all of the other Flashpoint bosses.Well the fact of the matter is, Revan and Malgus employed HK-47 to take down a strike team of tough individuals - and he presumably held his own. I'd say that's pretty impressive. Though in reality HK will likely play an assist role, grenades, sonic screamers, cluster rockets and gas attacks will all help to incapacitate/distract the enemy while Darth Maul or some Sith Assassins move in for the kill. I think combined with Maul, Sith Assassins and perhaps even Traya herself they can take down Malgus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 OK, friends, I have returned from Barnes and Noble with some new books, two of which will be helpful in The BattleZone, but you don't want to hear about those books. Remind me, what was the source for the Interdictor's firepower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 OK, friends, I have returned from Barnes and Noble with some new books, two of which will be helpful in The BattleZone, but you don't want to hear about those books. Remind me, what was the source for the Interdictor's firepower? Page 22 on The Essentials Guide to Technology and Weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 ^My reaction to Page 22 of The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology. Pages 22 and 23 detail the Dart Shooter used by Jango Fett and many other assassins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 ^My reaction to Page 22 of The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology. Pages 22 and 23 detail the Dart Shooter used by Jango Fett and many other assassins. What? That is even worse than the Qui-Gon thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 ^My reaction to Page 22 of The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology. Pages 22 and 23 detail the Dart Shooter used by Jango Fett and many other assassins.Lol, is the Interdictor even in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 What? That is even worse than the Qui-Gon thing. Yeah, it is. And I did some looking around, and that information on the Interdictor is not in the New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels either. So I have no idea where they got that from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Lol, is the Interdictor even in there? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 Nope.Well, perhaps they got the wrong book... Quickly! Check page 22 of every Star Wars reference book ever published! Wait! Scrap that! Go post the BattleZone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Well, perhaps they got the wrong book... Quickly! Check page 22 of every Star Wars reference book ever published! Wait! Scrap that! Go post the BattleZone! The mighty Selenial hath returned from her in-laws! Didn't bring my laptop and my phone charger broke, sorry guys!!! Firstly: Interdictor quote shall not be used... Ever again, until found. Secondly: I don't just have OCF ships wolf, I've got Tie Phantoms, Agressors, Opressors, Defenders, And many more!! Oh, and Sienar Fleet systems had the Interdictor designs. We're talking weapons hard points, weaknesses and all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 The mighty Selenial hath returned from her in-laws! Didn't bring my laptop and my phone charger broke, sorry guys!!! Firstly: Interdictor quote shall not be used... Ever again, until found. Secondly: I don't just have OCF ships wolf, I've got Tie Phantoms, Agressors, Opressors, Defenders, And many more!! Oh, and Sienar Fleet systems had the Interdictor designs. We're talking weapons hard points, weaknesses and all...The dreaded in-laws! Tell us, how did you escape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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