Kaggath Tournament - Dark Imperium vs Undying Brotherhood

[tunewalker]

OK going to try to write a scenario.

 

I suspect Malgus will start out Cautious sending only 200 ships to attack the DI worlds while leaving 160 at each of his planets.

 

The 200 ships will hit the DI hard but the DI will pincer them in ith stealth ships and catch them in a cross fire. This tactic worked so well for Garm bel and Wedge that the 2 were able to destroy 1000 Yuuzong Vong ships with just 200 of their own by catching them in the middle so it is more then possible for the 125 DI ships to overwhelm the 200 that are sent to attack them only losing 25 of their own ships in the process. Though I doubt all of the 200 ships will be destroyed this is where the DI can employ the use of their Shadow troopers and Sith assassins. While the ground troops of the UB are mostly force sensitive the pilots and crew of the ships are not and as such would be vulnerable to such an attack. Thus all of the ships that survive return but not with the UB in control of them. The DI then blend these 15 ships into the fleet as failures that have returned. Malgus will have believed the DI to played their trump card to soon as the stealth ship ambush means he now knows what ships his opponents have unsuspecting that the ships that did return are no longer under his control. The ships then land sith assassins on some of his planets and dissidents is created among the Massassi on the planets as their Loyalties get split between 2 sith leaders causeing chaos on the UB worlds.

 

Meanwhile Malgus goes on the full offensive conquering world after world as more and more of his enemy ships fall but also as more and more of his ships slowly become taken over by invisible enemies. As he leads his troops on the ground to victory after victory against weak unprepared enemy, he is slowly losing control of ship after ship with out his knowing as the bulk of the forces are being used there. I suspect it would take an average of 30 stealth Shadow troopers per ship to take with 2000 of them dieing on the ground this means the DI could potentially take control of over 260 ships from the enemy. With 200 lost in the initial and likely another 100-150 lost in the rest of the war, this would make a grand total loss of 600 of the ships leaving it 260 to 400 but again that's when the 260 strike from with in and as I have already said we have seen when enemy ships get surrounded you can win with 5:1 odds as this is less then 2:1 odds the DI can turn that into a win.

 

 

Something that has to be remembered is through out star wars Gorrilla warfare tactics have time and time again shown that even if you are outnumbered 100:1 you can still come out on top if your opponent isn't ready for such a strategy.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Something else I would like to note in regards to space....the UB only has 1 type of fighter?

[Beniboybling]

Damnit Beni! << /Sigh..

 

Yes he gives plenty of info...because he was obviously programmed with such info so Revan could have just crammed all the knowledge and experiences he knew into him, and of course he was built to but does that mean he did?...Well who knows, I like having proof here.

 

But anyway in this instances I suppose he could, otherwise he wouldn't be very useful here. As I said not saying he can't.

 

So anyway moving on...not the time for this.

Ockham's razor, the simplest theory is the better one.

 

Which is more likely: that Revan painstakingly programmed HK-47 with a range of Jedi killing tactics and experiences, then kept him in a factory to collect dust. Or that Revan built HK to assassinate Jedi, and he went out and did it.

 

I find the latter more compelling.

 

In the absence of evidence, logic is the next best thing.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Edit: Eh lets just continue, so my question?

 

Also again...does anyone have the problem when it seems editing a post, it takes you to a page where it says the site is in maintenance?

[LadyKulvax]

HK mentions a lot of things that help to defeat Jedi, he will not be defeating Jedi, he will be fighting against the Sith and not just any Sith but Sith Warriors led by Darth Malgus an absolute tank, General Grievous, Asajj Ventress and Durge, I am thinking Durge can single-handedly take down HK-47 the moment he takes his shot and then HK-47 is in trouble, Durge is even harder to kill than Malgus is.

 

Asajj Ventress is an expert Assassin whom can be the bodyguard to defend against Sith Assassins, once HK-47 is dealt with by Durge, Durge can help Ventress in taking out whatever Sith Assassins remain, any that get through are not going to be nearly effective enough to kill Darth Malgus.

 

Whilst General Grievous is fighting the ground battles with an army that pretty much stamps out anything in it's path.

 

Though I am still wondering why there are only 10,000 Massassi Warriors and not the half a million Exar Kun had.

[tunewalker]

HK mentions a lot of things that help to defeat Jedi, he will not be defeating Jedi, he will be fighting against the Sith and not just any Sith but Sith Warriors led by Darth Malgus an absolute tank, General Grievous, Asajj Ventress and Durge, I am thinking Durge can single-handedly take down HK-47 the moment he takes his shot and then HK-47 is in trouble, Durge is even harder to kill than Malgus is.

 

Asajj Ventress is an expert Assassin whom can be the bodyguard to defend against Sith Assassins, once HK-47 is dealt with by Durge, Durge can help Ventress in taking out whatever Sith Assassins remain, any that get through are not going to be nearly effective enough to kill Darth Malgus.

 

Whilst General Grievous is fighting the ground battles with an army that pretty much stamps out anything in it's path.

 

Though I am still wondering why there are only 10,000 Massassi Warriors and not the half a million Exar Kun had.

 

Because it is a Minor ground force no minor ground force can be above the size of 10k if he wanted the full thing he needed to mark it as Major and then he would get nothing else.

[Aurbere]

Edit: Eh lets just continue, so my question?

 

Also again...does anyone have the problem when it seems editing a post, it takes you to a page where it says the site is in maintenance?

 

I get that issue too.

[tunewalker]

I haven't had to edit anything in a while maybe I will try this one.

 

 

Edit:does this work??????

 

 

Edit2: huh happened to me to....

[Wolfninjajedi]

Hmm...well as long as it isn't me lol. Though do the UB only have 1 fighter? The Sith Fighter? Or do they have more than just that one...if so then...it ain't looking too good for them in regards to dogfighting.

[tunewalker]

Hmm...well as long as it isn't me lol. Though do the UB only have 1 fighter? The Sith Fighter? Or do they have more than just that one...if so then...it ain't looking too good for them in regards to dogfighting.

 

As far as I know that's all they have.

 

Edit: you will see I posted a scenario that shows why a stealthed unit using gorilla tactics can in fact take down the UB

[Wolfninjajedi]

As far as I know that's all they have.

 

Edit: you will see I posted a scenario that shows why a stealthed unit using gorilla tactics can in fact take down the UB

 

There is a problem though here....the Sith Fighter by comparison...is crap. In fact I would go as far to say it is even worse than a standard TIE fighter. It just has two laser cannons, no shields and a minimal hull.

 

It's saving grace being it's engines...isn't really all that saving when comparing them to later ships. If we go by the Twin Ion engine being the same as what it is on the TIE fighter, a Sith Fighter should be able to go the exact same speed as a TIE(of course this is speculation as to take note the engines on the Sith Fighter is a prototype).

 

However...it is noted that the power by the engines on the Sith Fighter can cause instability due to the hull, unlike the TIE fighter which has a stronger hull(Titanium).

 

The ships the DI have, the ARC-170 starfighters would be able to keep up with a Sith Fighter plus also having a rear gun getting behind an ARC isn't gonna be possible.

 

In fact the Eta-2 Actis-class light interceptors have an even greater speed.

 

This of course is just taking into account the speed of which each fighter has on the two factions.

[tunewalker]

There is a problem though here....the Sith Fighter by comparison...is crap. In fact I would go as far to say it is even worse than a standard TIE fighter. It just has two laser cannons, no shields and a minimal hull.

 

It's saving grace being it's engines...isn't really all that saving when comparing them to later ships. If we go by the Twin Ion engine being the same as what it is on the TIE fighter, a Sith Fighter should be able to go the exact same speed as a TIE(of course this is speculation as to take note the engines on the Sith Fighter is a prototype).

 

However...it is noted that the power by the engines on the Sith Fighter can cause instability due to the hull, unlike the TIE fighter which has a stronger hull(Titanium).

 

The ships the DI have, the ARC-170 starfighters would be able to keep up with a Sith Fighter plus also having a rear gun getting behind an ARC isn't gonna be possible.

 

In fact the Eta-2 Actis-class light interceptors have an even greater speed.

 

This of course is just taking into account the speed of which each fighter has on the two factions.

 

Ya we kind of already talked about how the DI have fighter superiority, I just don't know that in a straight fight it would make much of a difference with the disparity of capital ships..... then again this isn't going to be a straight fight either and we have seen people outnumbered even like this take it through gorilla warfare tactics and as I said I don't feel any of the UB are to terribly familiar with fighting Gorrilla warfare most of them fought pretty open warfare. There are a few assassins but that's not the same as a military commander dealing with hit and fade attacks from stealthed ships. Both Malgus and Greivous as far as I know were much more direct so such tactics may cause them issue, especially grievous as that was the most affective tactic against him. Big Distraction covering up smaller goal that catches him unawares.

[Wolfninjajedi]

You know I just noticed something...

 

The DI can do full scale space battles, yet they can't do full scale ground ones.

 

The capital ships...I don't see making that big a difference. Revan's Sith Navy was comprised of what? Interdictor-class cruisers and a Centurion-class battlecruiser, with Sith Fighters yes?

 

Whereas the Open Circle Fleet has Venator-class Star Destroyers and also Acclamator 1-class assault ships with a variety of different fighters. Malgus' stealth fleet isn't really gonna be needed here tbh, I could see the Circle Fleet being able to take on Revan's Sith Navy alone.

 

While Grevious is a good commander...what he has I don't see it working out well for him. The CIS fleet was at least able to engage Republic fleets, while the tech for this battle is equal....the Sith fleet still has problems.

 

On ground...it's the other way around lol, who woulda figured.

[Beniboybling]

There is a problem though here....the Sith Fighter by comparison...is crap. In fact I would go as far to say it is even worse than a standard TIE fighter. It just has two laser cannons, no shields and a minimal hull.

 

It's saving grace being it's engines...isn't really all that saving when comparing them to later ships. If we go by the Twin Ion engine being the same as what it is on the TIE fighter, a Sith Fighter should be able to go the exact same speed as a TIE(of course this is speculation as to take note the engines on the Sith Fighter is a prototype).

 

However...it is noted that the power by the engines on the Sith Fighter can cause instability due to the hull, unlike the TIE fighter which has a stronger hull(Titanium).

 

The ships the DI have, the ARC-170 starfighters would be able to keep up with a Sith Fighter plus also having a rear gun getting behind an ARC isn't gonna be possible.

 

In fact the Eta-2 Actis-class light interceptors have an even greater speed.

 

This of course is just taking into account the speed of which each fighter has on the two factions.

Its faster than a TIE - we are talking Rakatan tech here - it will be fastest fighter on the naval field. Rememebring the tech rule, we are talking engines almost 4,000 years ahead of their time.

 

Also consider this:

 

Imperial naval doctrine states that individual starfighters aren't a deciding factor in the outcomes of starship engagements. Designs like the Supremacy-class are tailored to that belief. These starfighters are specially built for mass group maneuvers, attacking enemy forces in bulk and overwhelming them with more targets than they can successfully engage. Each Supremacy is equipped with rapid-fire laser cannons and powerful engines to aid swarm tactics. Their shielding is minimal, however, and the starfighters aren't equipped with heavier weapons like concussion missile launchers or proton torpedos. Supremacy pilots accept these limitations as a point pride, drilling constantly to carry out their complex group maneuvers with absolute precision.

 

This is from the Great Galactic War, but the same tactics are applied by Revan's Sith Navy. Sith fighters are meant to be expendable, and deployed in overwhelming force with overwhelming speed - but ultimately they only play a minor role in the grand scheme of things, which is decided by the Sith Navy's powerful capital ships.

[Beniboybling]

You know I just noticed something...

 

The DI can do full scale space battles, yet they can't do full scale ground ones.

 

The capital ships...I don't see making that big a difference. Revan's Sith Navy was comprised of what? Interdictor-class cruisers and a Centurion-class battlecruiser, with Sith Fighters yes?

 

Whereas the Open Circle Fleet has Venator-class Star Destroyers and also Acclamator 1-class assault ships with a variety of different fighters. Malgus' stealth fleet isn't really gonna be needed here tbh, I could see the Circle Fleet being able to take on Revan's Sith Navy alone.

 

While Grevious is a good commander...what he has I don't see it working out well for him. The CIS fleet was at least able to engage Republic fleets, while the tech for this battle is equal....the Sith fleet still has problems.

 

On ground...it's the other way around lol, who woulda figured.

I think you need to be aware of numbers here.

 

Open Circle Fleet: 60+ ships

 

Revan's Sith Navy: 1,000 ships.

 

That's without considering that the Interdictors and Centurions are superior to the Acclamators and Venators respectively. Again remember the technology is universal, don't dismiss vessels simply down to time period.

[Aurbere]

I think you need to be aware of numbers here.

 

Open Circle Fleet: 60+ ships

 

Revan's Sith Navy: 1,000 ships.

 

That's without considering that the Interdictors and Centurions are superior to the Acclamators and Venators respectively. Again remember the technology is universal, don't dismiss vessels simply down to time period.

 

I don't think he was doing that at all. I believe he thought that the Open Circle Fleet was at full strength, giving the DI a numerical advantage.

[Beniboybling]

I don't think he was doing that at all. I believe he thought that the Open Circle Fleet was at full strength, giving the DI a numerical advantage.

Well it looked like a unit comparison as opposed to a number comparison, I'm just pointing out that Revan's Sith Navy possesses superior vessels. I wouldn't want anyone to underestimate them.

 

Anyway, were in the Maker's name are Selenial and Marcelo!

[Aurbere]

Well it looked like a unit comparison as opposed to a number comparison, I'm just pointing out that Revan's Sith Navy possesses superior vessels. I wouldn't want anyone to underestimate them.

 

Anyway, were in the Maker's name are Selenial and Marcelo!

 

That's what I would like to know.

[Beniboybling]

That's what I would like to know.

Well I guess this is what I get for forgetting to send out PMs...

[Aurbere]

Bringing this over here.

 

Hard noise projectors. Here:

 

Two of the assassin droids held up and triggered what looked like small antenna dishes, no bigger than dinner plates. Sudden thunder burst in Jai's skull-a keening explosion of sound, agonizingly loud, blew out his eardrums and dropped him to his knees. The noise was stupefying-loud enough to knock over the little R2 unit; so loud the sheer sonic assault his Jai like an iron bar in the face. Maks Leem dropped her lightsaber. Her mouth was open and she was probably screaming, but Jai couldn't hear it. He suspected he wasn't going to be able to hear anything for a very long time.

 

Focus.

 

He couldn't think. His head was coming apart in plates, the bones of his skull rattling like dropped china. Hard-sound guns-he'd heard reports about them, but nothing had prepared him.

 

Something wet on his neck. Blood. Blood was pouring from his earholes.

 

Would it be possible for the DI to get there hands on this? As you said, Beni, HK refers to a weapon like this.

 

Would it be possible for Santhe/Sienar to get their hands on something like this?

[Aurbere]

Well I guess this is what I get for forgetting to send out PMs...

 

Live and learn, I suppose.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I think you need to be aware of numbers here.

 

Open Circle Fleet: 60+ ships

 

Revan's Sith Navy: 1,000 ships.

 

That's without considering that the Interdictors and Centurions are superior to the Acclamators and Venators respectively. Again remember the technology is universal, don't dismiss vessels simply down to time period.

 

Ah didn't know the OC Fleet had only 60 ships here....though the Interdictors and Centurions being superior to the others?...

 

Its faster than a TIE - we are talking Rakatan tech here - it will be fastest fighter on the naval field. Rememebring the tech rule, we are talking engines almost 4,000 years ahead of their time.

 

It was the prototype twin ion engines is what the Sith Fighters use. The same as the TIE fighter pretty much only not a prototype...it isn't gonna be the faster fighter, because the OC fleets fighters will be matching.

[Beniboybling]

It was the prototype twin ion engines is what the Sith Fighters use. The same as the TIE fighter pretty much only not a prototype...it isn't gonna be the faster fighter, because the OC fleets fighters will be matching.

Like I said, tech rule.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Like I said, tech rule.

 

I know regardless it's all matching.

 

Though tech rule aside, where are you getting that the Interdictors/Centurions are superior to the Accalamators/Venators?

[Beniboybling]

I know regardless it's all matching.

 

Though tech rule aside, where are you getting that the Interdictors/Centurions are superior to the Accalamators/Venators?

But its not, the engines were way way ahead of their time. So the Sith fighters are therefore considerably superior to the Imperium's fighters - not matching.

 

And concerning Interdictors and Centurions. I'd say with confidence that a Victory-II is superior to an Acclamator and a Imperial-II superior to an Acclamator. They were the superseding models. Simply put Revan's Sith Navy has some seriously powerful vessels at its command, the very best of the era and then some, they should not be underestimated.