Would you accept no voiceovers if it meant more frequent content?

[VanderII]

I think this is a bad idea. I've voted for NO!!

[Fantazm]

Nein.

[Kendaric]

To answer the OP: No.

 

I wouldn't mind sidequests having no voiceovers (since "Bring me 10 droid butts" isn't going to be interesting. Ever.), but only if it means more and more involved planetary stories and getting back to class stories. But if new content would be just more dailies and operations, then I'd prefer to have even the sidequests voiced.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

So you're willing to give up the continuation of voice acted stories and leave them as cliffhangers for one more sh*tty "kill 30 mobs" daily?

 

Actually, I enjoy the VOs in this game. I am simply explaining something you do not understand, as is evidenced by your next comment...

 

You do realize that "non-voiceover content" means dailies?

 

False. There are many many MMOs that do not have VOs but still have well written story dialog. If you clicked through it and didnt read it, that was your own loss, but not the fault of the developers.

Edited September 19, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[Kendaric]

False. There are many many MMOs that do not have VOs but still have well written story dialog. If you clicked through it and didnt read it, that was your own loss, but not the fault of the developers.

 

You can't do that in SWTOR without getting the same problem Age of Conan had (and still has). There the first 20 levels (the starter area) were fully voiced, afterwards you had next to no voice acting at all, which made it feel like two entirely different games.

In SWTOR it can work for sidequests as long as those are handed out via datapads/terminals, but everything given by an actual NPC needs a voice over or it will stick out like a sore thumb.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

You can't do that in SWTOR without getting the same problem Age of Conan had (and still has). There the first 20 levels (the starter area) were fully voiced, afterwards you had next to no voice acting at all, which made it feel like two entirely different games.

In SWTOR it can work for sidequests as long as those are handed out via datapads/terminals, but everything given by an actual NPC needs a voice over or it will stick out like a sore thumb.

 

That is a completely valid opinion, although it is only an opinion. And for the record, I happen to agree with that opinion. But just because I happen to agree, I still realize that I am no more "right" than someone else who has a differing opinion.

 

All of that said, the opinion you just expressed is completely irrelevant to the point of my previous post, which was that just because a mission does not have VO, that does not mean it is a "daily". And the proof is that plenty of other MMOs have well written quests that dont have VO, but also arent dailies.

Edited September 19, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[Eavandar]

Short answer, hell NO.

[Arkerus]

That is a completely valid opinion, although it is only an opinion. And for the record, I happen to agree with that opinion. But just because I happen to agree, I still realize that I am no more "right" than someone else who has a differing opinion.

 

All of that said, the opinion you just expressed is completely irrelevant to the point of my previous post, which was that just because a mission does not have VO, that does not mean it is a "daily". And the proof is that plenty of other MMOs have well written quests that dont have VO, but also arent dailies.

 

The grand goalpost mover. Keep on moving them goalposts...see how far off the field you can get them.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

The grand goalpost mover. Keep on moving them goalposts...see how far off the field you can get them.

 

Thanks for the bump

[ImpactHound]

 

"Bring me 10 droid butts" isn't going to be interesting. Ever.

 

I chuckled and agree.

[Heal-To-Full]

False. There are many many MMOs that do not have VOs but still have well written story dialog. If you clicked through it and didnt read it, that was your own loss, but not the fault of the developers.

I'm not talking about "many MMOs".

I'm talking about SWTOR.

 

In SWTOR, "content without voiceover" means dailies. Occasionally also "kill 30 mobs in the area you're clearing for your class quest anyway" trash quests.

 

Dailies don't have voiceovers because you don't want to listen to the same VO a thousand times, not to save money. Most of them aren't even meant to be read.

If you make the mistake of reading them, you'll be punished with the misfortune of learning that "Because of the war and importance of war in general and your general importance in the war, which is very important to the Republic because it is currently at war with the Empire, which has led us to a very important armed war, and because of the enormous role you play in it, it becomes extremely important to the Republic that you immediately collect 10 droid butts.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Heal-To-Full

[MidichIorian]

You do realize that "non-voiceover content" means dailies?

It could also mean flahspoints etc. Flashpoints don't even need dialogue, they could simply be retrival/rescue missions or exploration (we encountered a moon and will touch down to see what it's about, bam...there's your story) where you encounter a couple of bosses. No need for an elaborate backstory and convos every 3 minutes. Edited September 20, 2013 by MidichIorian

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I'm not talking about "many MMOs".

I'm talking about SWTOR.

 

In SWTOR, "content without voiceover" means dailies. Occasionally also "kill 30 mobs in the area you're clearing for your class quest anyway" trash quests.

 

Yes, that is currently the case. However, there is no law of the universe that says the devs could not make an actual storyline quest without VOs if they wanted to. And that is the hypothetical scenario being discussed in this thread. So you are incorrect that a mission without VO would *have* to be a daily.

[Heal-To-Full]

Yes, that is currently the case. However, there is no law of the universe that says the devs could not make an actual storyline quest without VOs if they wanted to.

But it would've been utterly stupid. So they would save what, 2%, maybe 4-5% if there's a lot of class specific dialogue? Still a lot less than the daily revenue of the Cartel Market.

 

While the outcome would be a questline that no one will ever read and just look at their mission tracker.

After a second or third such quest, when everyone realizes that no one reads anything in these quests anyway, further ones will drop the pretense of quality. It takes a lot more time, and thus costs more, to come up with good stories and good dialogue than to take ready lines and voice them over. It takes even more time to implement them, of course.

 

And then the gaming press, instead of praising SWTOR's resurgence, will talk about how they dropped voicing, so the game is clearly on its last legs and everyone should get out and save their money for whatever WoW clone In Space! is going to be hot next. Which will lose the game a lot more revenues than one day's worth.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Heal-To-Full

[The_Grand_Nagus]

But it would've been utterly stupid.

 

I'm not going to disagree with your opinion, but what is "stupid" to you may not be to someone else, and vice versa. Matters of taste are subjective, and there is no "right" or "wrong".

[Heal-To-Full]

Matters of taste are subjective, and there is no "right" or "wrong".

Perhaps.

But you can see that I looked at it from a money perspective. Money can be pretty objective.

 

It just doesn't make commercial sense to save small fractions of the development budget at the risk of a massive loss in revenue. The main commercial reason to add new content is to make the game look better; to have it praised by players and reviewers alike, so it can get more players and eventually customers. And to do this, you need quality content, you have to stay on top of your game, project a positive image.

 

Switching to terminal quests is going to accomplish the reverse - the content will be perceived as low quality and the game as dying.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Heal-To-Full

[The_Grand_Nagus]

Switching to terminal quests is going to accomplish the reverse - the content will be perceived as low quality and the game as dying.

 

To clarify a point, I am not talking about "terminal missions", but non-VO missions from actual NPCs. That said, if all they released were non-VO missions, then I agree it might give off a certain negative impression. But if they continued to release new planets, and completely new systems like the SSSP, that is not going to look like a game in decline.

[Heal-To-Full]

To clarify a point, I am not talking about "terminal missions", but non-VO missions from actual NPCs.

Still going to be perceived as low quality/cheap. Quality VA work can make something otherwise banal sound much better than it would read.

 

That said, if all they released were non-VO missions, then I agree it might give off a certain negative impression. But if they continued to release new planets, and completely new systems like the SSSP, that is not going to look like a game in decline.

So you see it too. More cheap silent quests isn't going to cut it.

 

And if you're going to release seriously expensive stuff like new planets, there just isn't any point in skimping on VA, it will barely make any dent in the budget at all, and since you're doing it in bulk again, there's no logistical problems either.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

So you see it too. More cheap silent quests isn't going to cut it.

 

Just doing "more quests" arent going to cut it period, whether they are VO'd or not. People want new planets and things like the SSSP to keep the game fresh and interesting. The question being discussed in this thread is whether people would be willing to go without VO on quests if that meant getting more content faster. Your answer is obviously "no", and that is completely fine. But your individual answer means no more than anyone else's. It is just your opinion, and everybody has one

Edited September 20, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[Heal-To-Full]

Just doing "more quests" arent going to cut it period, whether they are VO'd or not. People want new planets and things like the SSSP to keep the game fresh and interesting.

You're talking about very expensive content here. New planets mean new concept design, new documentation, new models, new textures, new landscape work, new creatures, new AI path grid optimization, multiple stages of testing and debugging to release. Full-on game development, not patchwork.

 

The costs of that are incomparable to the costs of VA.

 

It's a quantitative question, not just qualitative.

So let's phrase it quantitatively: would you rather get a new silent planet three days sooner, or a new planet with full VA three days later?

Edited September 20, 2013 by Heal-To-Full

[The_Grand_Nagus]

You're talking about very expensive content here. The costs of that are incomparable to the costs of VA.

 

It's a quantitative question, not just qualitative. So let's phrase it quantitatively: would you rather get a new silent planet three days sooner, or a new planet with full VA three days later?

 

Neither you nor I have any idea how comparable the costs are, and therefore also have no idea how much of a difference it would make as far as time goes. Since neither of us have any idea, I'll answer your question from both extremes. For a 3 day difference? Probably not. For a 3 month difference? Probably so.

[Ricul]

A voiceactor costs what? 1000$ a session? Thats peanutcrumbs for BioWare. I don't think voiceover is a problem.

[Heal-To-Full]

Neither you nor I have any idea how comparable the costs are

Actually I do have some idea. I've cited the costs in this thread before.

 

New planets mean new concept design, new design document (big ticket item), new models, new textures, new landscape work, new creature animations, and for the new lanscape AI path grid correction, multiple stages of testing and debugging, cycled all the way to release. It's full-on game development, not patchwork.

 

 

Since neither of us have any idea, I'll answer your question from both extremes. For a 3 day difference? Probably not. For a 3 month difference? Probably so.

But you're not getting a 3 month difference. If it takes half a year to do a new planet - and it takes approximately half a year to do a new planet, see their release schedule - then you need more than twice the team to do it in 3 months. You're not getting twice the team from skimping on a few hours of VA.

 

All you're getting is a couple new hires that won't be doing core design work anyway - you want you hand-picked core team on that, anyone else would just get in the way - only help with testing and debugging. Maybe not 3 days, maybe a week or two. However, your core content team is already working on the next planet during the debugging phase, so it won't accelerate the interval between releases by more than a few days.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Heal-To-Full

[The_Grand_Nagus]

Actually I do have some idea.

 

Not that your speculation isnt interesting, but since you arent a member of the TOR team, you do not know their specific methodology and procedures, nor do you know the costs of the specific voice actors they use. But the truth is, none of that actually matters. Why? Because a hypothetical question is being asked, and the conditions of that hypothetical question are such that not having voiceovers would in fact mean more content more quickly. Whether you agree that would actually be the result or not, that does not change the conditions of the hypothetical question.

Edited September 20, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[Heal-To-Full]

Not that your speculation isnt interesting, but since you arent a member of the TOR team, you do not know their specific methodology and procedures, nor do you know the costs of the specific voice actors they use.

I don't have to.

 

One hour of finished voice contains ~10,000 words. You can order it for a cost ranging from $50-$200 for bare-bone minimum to $500 for average game voiceover to $1,000 broadcast grade, the work you hear in TV documentaries. It can gets higher for movies and commercials that go through dozens of take to get it just perfect. SWTOR's voice work is decidedly not there, but it's better than your average game, generally broadcast grade.

 

These are turnkey prices to order it. Turnkey prices are always higher than costs for in-house production. For a company like Bioware with its own studios in property and sound engineers on annual salary, the costs, especially marginal costs, are considerably lower.

 

And even if they weren't lower and VA work was ordered turnkey, it's still peanuts compared to proper gamedev expenses for an AAA game like this.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Heal-To-Full