Andryah Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) They did revamp Dustwallow marsh twice(specifically for the levelling process), and Silithus once(primarily for progression, unfinished zone at launch). They were a huge part of their respective patches though. Similarly...While SWTOR has not had any zone type content redone (yet).. as an altaholic I can state for a fact that a notable number of missions within the release content in those zones has been changed since launch. Also they have tweaked the instancing mechanics from launch. So the statement that the SWTOR devs have not touched 1-50 since launch is hyperbole for hyperbole sake. Edited September 13, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 While SWTOR has not had any zone type content redone (yet).. as an altaholic I can state for a fact that a notable number of missions within the release content in those zones has been changed since launch. Also they have tweaked the instancing mechanics from launch. So the statement that the SWTOR devs have not touched 1-50 since launch is hyperbole for hyperbole sake. Ok...? I was just correcting Arkerus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Ok...? I was just correcting Arkerus. I understand. I was using your comment by way of comparison. I even went back and added the word similarly to make that more clear..... AND I took the thread back to the topic of SWTOR all in one swoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 /5char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 The water army will always be here doing whatever it is they get paid to do to foster consumer doubt. They did their best yowling cat imitations berating "fanboys" before 1.1 and how the game would fade out after 6 months ... then 12 months ... then 18 months ... then 2 years ... Oh wait, it hasn't been 2 years yet - they still have time to be right. On noes! The rest of us could not care less about fabricated gloom & doom virtual world forecasts made by people who feel empowered to do so while hiding anonymously behind a computer screen. (Courageous stuff ... really ...) IMHO they can keep their forum wall tagging parties to themselves ... the rest of us will simply login and enjoy some game time with our friends. Oh please. The only way to make that sound more grandiose and melodramatic would be to do it in a Winston Churchill voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnduane Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 So totally wrong there. I have lots of games on PC and can't wait to get my hands on the Playstation. My son owns a PC and an Xbox and he plays both. In fact, I know so many people who have both and play both. This. Prime example is D3 from you know, the company that actually treats its players well. D3 on PS3 is fun as all hell, and fun on the PC as well. Many friends of mine play both versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Yup...well they did change classes a few times (full refunds on char points), bug fixes, char customization, free respec, LEGACY implementation, skill progression changes (anyone want sprint back to lvl 15?), and minor tweaks here and there, but other than those...nothing since launch. That's all well and good, but none of those things qualify as the E in PvE. Same mobs. Same maps. Same mob placement. Same missions. Same rewards. Same AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Oh please. The only way to make that sound more grandiose and melodramatic would be to do it in a Winston Churchill voice. Or... let you do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I don't find that as a downside personally, and the core mechanics of the game was not the problem IMO. That's just my opinion naturally. They have changed almost everything I remember folks pointing out needed to be changed, or look like they are going to change it shortly.....there still are things on the list of course. What do you think was the problem then? It was the same price as every other MMO, and 2.5 million bought it knowing it was a subscription-based game so cost can't be the reason. Despite the whining, bugs in TOR were minimal at launch. It actually had one of the smoothest and least buggy launches of any MMO. Endgame is the standard excuse but most of the people who quit wouldn't have played long enough to reach it (assuming they are "casuals"). QoL and "fluff" were sorely lacking but this isn't really an instant make-or-break thing. Anyone with any MMO experience knows that stuff is often released or at least heavily expanded after launch. Some may have been expecting and/or wanting TOR to be a more hard core or oldschool MMO. There's no doubt some left for one or more of these reasons, but the majority would be a stretch. The only real logical assumption I can make is that the 1-50 PvE game bored people. In 3 months of playing time, that's what the vast majority of the 2 million ex-subscribers would have been doing, again, assuming they were casual players. Besides that, the ease and speed of TOR's PvE game was one of the most voiced complaints during the first few months. It's not heard as much anymore because most of those people are long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) It was the same price as every other MMO, and 2.5 million bought it knowing it was a subscription-based game so cost can't be the reason. 1) all MMOs have heavy attrition after launch these days. Even WoW has heavy attrition in the early months after an expansion pack drops. Many of the people that leave early on a new MMO should really not jump on a new MMO and demand it be 10 years mature at launch. 2) A lot of people bought this game thinking (rightly or wrongly) that they were buying a throw away KOTOR-3. They played it and tossed it.. like they do with all throw away single player games. 3) A lot of Star Wars fans were enticed to try this game, even though MMOs are not their thing. Some stayed, many moved on. The list goes on and on.. but other then "group 1".. the unhappy locust nomads... there is compelling failure on this particular MMO. If there were.. it would have shuttered In the first year. It did not. Edited September 13, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 1) all MMOs have heavy attrition after launch these days. Even WoW has heavy attrition in the early months after an expansion pack drops. Many of the people that leave early on a new MMO should really not jump on a new MMO and demand it be 10 years mature at launch. 2) A lot of people bought this game thinking (rightly or wrongly) that they were buying a throw away KOTOR-3. They played it and tossed it.. like they do with all throw away single player games. 3) A lot of Star Wars fans were enticed to try this game, even though MMOs are not their thing. Some stayed, many moved on. The list goes on and on.. but other then "group 1".. the unhappy locust nomads... there is compelling failure on this particular MMO. If there were.. it would have shuttered In the first year. It did not. Right. So standard answer then... "It's the players' fault". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amera Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Right. So standard answer then... "It's the players' fault". They suffer from battered gamer syndrome. Someone needs to do a study, the SWTOR forums have several excellent specimens. Edited September 13, 2013 by Amera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 They suffer from battered gamer syndrome. Someone needs to do a study, the SWTOR forums have several excellent specimens. Specimens on the forums? There are plenty, but I'm not sure about "battered game syndrome." I mean... certain people, and we know who they are, keep poking themselves in the eye by continuing to re-up or buy more time cards. "This game sucks! Ouch! It really sucks, ouch!! That's it, this is my last 60 day time card and this time I mean it. Ouch!" They have moved beyond criticism and improvement and continue to re-up for the sake of the pain. It is quite honestly a form of masochism. Don't know what to make of it, but I agree it warrants further study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Right. So standard answer then... "It's the players' fault". Nowhere in my response did I issue fault with anyone or anything. Stop trying so hard. Just because you do not agree with me, does not make me the enemy. Edited September 13, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenatah Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Minor expansion and DLC stuff is usually eventually given away to subs. Can't imagine there's that many subs who don't yet have ROTHC. Not being able to play anything past level 50 would suck as pretty much all the new stuff has been for level 55. If someone hasn't bought ROTHC by now, they probably weren't going to buy it anyway. So they are just looking to make a new sub more appealing and to solidify recent subs who are still trying out of the game. Pretty much this, I think. Even if they marketed it in a terrible way that managed to make people who'd already purchased ROTHC angry I think this was clearly their intention. Right. So standard answer then... "It's the players' fault". PEBKAC to the extreme. Clearly it is the fault of the players when a game is mismanaged to the point of being a joke to the gaming community. So mismanaged, in fact, that it had to go F2P in less than a year's time to make up for the massive amount of loss they incurred due to mismanagement. I think that we can all agree that F2P salvaged what was left of SWTOR and brought some much-needed new blood to the game, though. It has been a very good thing, a bright spot among the ridiculous QA, the poor PvE tuning, the even more laughable PvP scene. I just hope we keep getting a decent balance of actual content to fluff cartel stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love vanity items, but I'm only paying for 'em because I want to support the further development of a game I love (though it's felt like an abusive relationship sometimes ) Specimens on the forums? There are plenty, but I'm not sure about "battered game syndrome." I mean... certain people, and we know who they are, keep poking themselves in the eye by continuing to re-up or buy more time cards. "This game sucks! Ouch! It really sucks, ouch!! That's it, this is my last 60 day time card and this time I mean it. Ouch!" They have moved beyond criticism and improvement and continue to re-up for the sake of the pain. It is quite honestly a form of masochism. Don't know what to make of it, but I agree it warrants further study. As one of these "battered gamers", it's more of a "I love the game, I love the IP, but there is so much wasted potential here it hurts" rather than "I do it for the pain". I raid at the top tier with people I really like; I continue to pay because I want this game to get better, and supporting the devs is how new content gets pushed out (barring any mismanagement, of which there has been loads, but I digress). Keep generalizing, though! It's cute. Edited September 13, 2013 by Arenatah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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