Why are bioware so bad at PR and product offerings?

[carlbaratta]

Were they developers or designers or testers... or senior management?

 

Developers, designers, and testers don't get to make the types of decisions I was talking about.

 

One was management and one was in sales I think. I was kind of drunk at the time.

[mikebevo]

It has nothing to do with making gamers happy. It has nothing to do with understanding or being gamers. It's all about money extraction. Revenue. Profit.

Completely agree, but will say that is how it should be. Their responsibility is to the investor, now they can sabotage that responsibility by ignoring the customer, but their #1 responsibility is to their investor. Edited September 13, 2013 by mikebevo

[Andryah]

Good PR would have worded the message in a way that didn't irk players or, were that impossible, strongly recommended to management to alter the scheme in a way to make the message more palatable.

 

LOL. So you are saying if they coat the message in the right chocolate sweet shell.. players would be OK? Um.. no.

 

OK. I'll restate my earlier comment, in a slightly different way: The issues are player issues. MMOs ALWAYS have players with issues who think they are being treated unfairly by the company and demand better "treatment". Public Relations is a business practice that delivers messaging using generally accepted practices and methods. It has nothing directly to do with the message, nor the reaction to the message.

 

You can declare the message to be wrong (in players eyes), or the actual substance of the message (the perk), or he way players react/over_react. These can all be valid statements.

 

"Being bad at PR and product offerings" is a statement by some players of displeasure with what they are receiving. That is not bad PR... and may not even be bad product offering.. that is some players saying they don't like what they received.

 

Public relations is the practice of managing the spread of information from the company out to it's customers, shareholders, regulatory agencies, etc. When a company miscommunicates a message, they have a public relations practice issue to correct. When a company communicates a message clearly, but the recipient does not like the message, that is a recipient/respondent business issue. It has nothing to do with PR per se.

 

The title, and the premise of this thread, is to use a label for a business practice as a club to demonize and beat on the company. Why not just state what you don't like, and why you don't like it and leave it at that? Why do these thread always begin with demonization?

 

It is accurate to say Bioware is not world class in marketing and communications. But in the context of the practice of Public Relations... they actually are on par with any other major company from my observations. They follow and apply industry standard practices along these lines. Public relations is agnostic to the messaging. Marketing however is not. Marketing owns the messaging. Public Relations is simply an industry standard business practice.

 

If you want state that Bioware is bad at marketing and marketing communications.. I agree. But that is a separate issue entirely from the premise of the thread title and what some forum posters are doing with it.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Andryah

[ImpactHound]

Completely agree, but will say that is how it should be. Their responsibility is to the investor, now they can sabotage that responsibility by ignoring the customer, but their #1 responsibility is to their investor.

 

Not a jab at you specifically, but people will recite that "responsibility to the investor" like a bible verse, it's disturbing. There obviously should be some consideration to the guy/guys who fronted you the money to do business in the first place, or who hold that stock note, but the blind fiscal zealotry that goes into kissing investor butts sometimes borders on the religious and it freaks me right out. Once upon a time people made good games first, and if they did well financially then they got to make a second or third. But even if the investors weren't happy, at least you made a game and it was out there, and some small audience out there had fun and enjoyed playing it.

 

Capcom was putting the screws to Inafune, the creator of Megaman for the past couple years, and pretty much ignored the fans and stopped putting out Megaman games because they didn't think they were a profitable game anymore. So Inafune went out on his own and is making a new game that doesn't violate copyrights thru Kickstarter and he got funded in TWO DAYS. I hope it sells like crazy after release too.

[DOHboy]

You didn't like the $20 lawmower with christmas lights draped on it?

I kind of want to see it now and then because it's rare, but it's just the WORST slap in the face to Xmas and holiday content in MMOs.

 

BINGO:rak_03:

[ImpactHound]

When a company communicates a message clearly, but the recipient does not like the message, that is a recipient respondent relationship issue. It has nothing to do with PR.

 

I don't agree with this, the distinction between singular and plural is not realistic with the actual number of recipients in question. The whole statement is trying to 'textbook-ize' a living definition which deflects from the original premise of how often BioWare dissatisfies people compared to other MMO companies. Hard to quantify though since it's all subjective metrics, and they're not the worst company out there. i would argue that Jagex has more ungrateful forums than SWTOR, with Blizzard more positive, and no judgement on Trion or (current)Sony.

[mikebevo]

So Inafune went out on his own and is making a new game that doesn't violate copyrights thru Kickstarter and he got funded in TWO DAYS. I hope it sells like crazy after release too.

Me too and guess who the investors are there? The gamer, so I love kickstart projects that get off the ground even if the game isn't my cup of tea.

 

Sorry you don't like it, but it is just a fact that I can't change. I didn't even say I was I like it, but I also know if you try to please everyone, you usually please no one. I don't like that fact either.

Edited September 13, 2013 by mikebevo

[ImpactHound]

Me too and guess who the investors are there? The gamer, so I love kickstart projects that get off the ground even if the game isn't my cup of tea.

 

Sorry you don't like it, but it is just a fact that I can't change. I didn't even say I was right, but I also know if you try to please everyone, you usually please no one. I don't like that fact either.

 

Like I said, wasn't mad at you. The whole situation of corporate goons ruining what might otherwise be really great games with bad decisions from the outside really bothers me. And I don't have any real solutions. It's great that kickstarter is an option in some instances, but it's far from perfect too. Doublefine, I'm looking at you, you're pathetic.

[Andryah]

The whole statement is trying to 'textbook-ize' a living definition which deflects from the original premise of how often BioWare dissatisfies people compared to other MMO companies.

 

Which is a marketing issue. Public Relations as a business practice is agnostic to the message. This is what people do not apparently realize.

 

Bioware is pretty substandard at marketing to MMO game players IMO. Then again.. they also have a pretty tough crowd so it's actually hard to tell if they are below industry standard in Marketing or not.

 

What is clear to me from the miscommunications that occur and they way the communicate around product announcements (which can be anything from player incentives to channel marketing) is that their Marketing organization does not have tight control over the operation. But I also think they are not that different in the genre in that regard. Some industries are just traditionally weak in marketing. Game companies are focused on making transaction sales of games. MMOs are not single transaction products.. they are service products. As such.. companies that produce and sell only MMOs are likely to do better overall in marketing then a large diverse game holding company like EA.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Me too and guess who the investors are there? The gamer, so I love kickstart projects that get off the ground even if the game isn't my cup of tea.

 

Sorry you don't like it, but it is just a fact that I can't change. I didn't even say I was I like it, but I also know if you try to please everyone, you usually please no one. I don't like that fact either.

 

For a kickstarter funded game.. the future gamers are the investors.

 

For game produced by large gaming companies like EA and Activision, the gamers ARE NOT the investors. They are customers.

[DarthTHC]

...

Public relations is the practice of managing the spread of information from the company out to it's customers, shareholders, regulatory agencies, etc. When a company miscommunicates a message, they have a public relations practice issue to correct. When a company communicates a message clearly, but the recipient does not like the message, that is a recipient/respondent business issue. It has nothing to do with PR per se.

...

 

They did not communicate the message clearly - the message that spawned this and so many other threads. You and I and every other thinking person on this forum knows exactly what was behind the message: "Please don't ask for a cash refund."

 

Their PR team twisted that into a message that sat very wrongly with a lot of their customers and does not, in fact, clearly communicate the decision that was made or why it was made.

[Andryah]

They did not communicate the message clearly - the message that spawned this and so many other threads. You and I and every other thinking person on this forum knows exactly what was behind the message: "Please don't ask for a cash refund."

 

Their PR team twisted that into a message that sat very wrongly with a lot of their customers and does not, in fact, clearly communicate the decision that was made or why it was made.

 

Actually, in the specific case here.. they did it properly IMO.

 

Are you suggesting they should have simply said: "hey... we are giving recent buyers of the expac free coins to discourage them from getting mad and asking for a refund. All the rest of you do not factor into this decision"

 

They made a legal and sensible business decision.. to avoid massive requests for refunds. They communicated it exactly how any other company would have.. so their PR practice is fine in that regard. They made a marketing mistake though.....They should NOT have given players outside the CC grant window ANYTHING. Why? Because the general audience is incapable of understanding what the term "appreciation" means. To an MMO gamer.. the term means whatever they want it to mean. Further.. MMO gamers are very petty and self-involved in a lot of cases... "hey! if Billy gets a candybar.. I Bob want the same candybar... yet Joe will contradict that and say hey if Billy gets a candybar.. I should get two because I am more special then Billy. Marketing should know this and know better IMO.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Andryah

[mikebevo]

Which is a marketing issue. Public Relations as a business practice is agnostic to the message. This is what people do not apparently realize. .

Public Relation messages are usually pretty bad after they are sent to the legal team to be proofed and revived. BioWare may have a wonderful team producing wonderfully worded announcements, but we will never know because once the go through the legal scrutiny when dealing with laws of multiple jurisdictions around the world, the message will be turned into legalese and many times loses the merits of the original statement.

 

A website that I am the staff on tried to giveaway 3 copies of TOR at launch. I was fronting the money so, I know it was all on the up and up. We wanted to make the giveaway open to our entire community, we wanted one of the copies tied to a fanart contest. My the time the legal people got through it was strictly a giveaway and it was limited to the US and even then excluded some states and some counties with in states that were included. Never again, we ticked off most of our vocal members by trying to do something nice for the community.

[Andryah]

Public Relation messages are usually pretty bad after they are sent to the legal team to be proofed and revived. BioWare may have a wonderful team producing wonderfully worded announcements, but we will never know because once the go through the legal scrutiny when dealing with laws of multiple jurisdictions around the world, the message will be turned into legalese and many times loses the merits of the original statement.

 

A website that I am the staff on tried to giveaway 3 copies of TOR at launch. I was fronting the money so, I know it was all on the up and up. We wanted to make the giveaway open to our entire community, we wanted one of the copies tied to a fanart contest. My the time the legal people got through it was strictly a giveaway and it was limited to the US and even then excluded some states and some counties with in states that were included. Never again, we ticked off most of our vocal members by trying to do something nice for the community.

 

Well.. I agree that the legal beagles can turn a straight line into a maze... but in my experience the wordsmiths are good at what they do in PR and will smooth a lot of that out. But it is true that some messages are legally driven and exist for legal reasons.. and no matter how you word them.. the consumer gets maze rage.

 

In the case you shared above.. making it any sort of contest driven event is what did you in. Contests are incredibly regulated these days (at least in the US).. and represent a lot of billable hours for the legal beagles to line them up for the narrow aperture of what is/is-not legal to do. Totally random draw is the way to go for that sort of thing IMO.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Andryah

[mikebevo]

Well.. I agree that the legal beagles can turn a straight line into a maze... but in my experience the wordsmiths are good at what they do in PR and will smooth a lot of that out. But it is true that some messages are legally driven and exist for legal reasons.. and no matter how you word them.. the consumer gets maze rage.

A message about a 30 day refund, that isn't really a refund, it is going to be just a legally scrutinized as a message about a giveaway. Edited September 13, 2013 by mikebevo

[ImpactHound]

I remember for one of the contests in City of Heroes, the devs made a point of discussing the inability to give whatever reward it was to anyone in Rhode Island because of the contest laws there. Partly because the game's Paragon City was set in Rhode island, but mostly because the devs were totally cool with having great dialogue with the community. Really sticks on in my mind as a good move on their part, and it was deinitely educational since I still remember it.

[elstaar]

i wonder, if bioware or ea actually paying something to all those doing forum damage control for them?

 

and i don't mean community team

Edited September 13, 2013 by elstaar

[ImpactHound]

i wonder, if bioware or ea actually paying something to all those doing forum damage control for them?

 

and i don't mean community team

 

I doubt it. There were temporary social marketing positions at launch specifically to viral the game on other gaming communities and sites, but I haven't seen anything lately. I think they just have the normal CMs and twitter/facebook staffers.

Edited September 13, 2013 by ImpactHound

[HoloTweed]

i wonder, if bioware or ea actually paying something to all those doing forum damage control for them?

 

and i don't mean community team

 

Sooooo... basically you're saying that only the Hater's opinions can be real or valid and any opinions to the contrary must be bought and paid for?

 

I've often wondered if I would look good wearing a tin-foil hat... Hmm.

[DarthTHC]

Actually, in the specific case here.. they did it properly IMO.

 

Are you suggesting they should have simply said: "hey... we are giving recent buyers of the expac free coins to discourage them from getting mad and asking for a refund. All the rest of you do not factor into this decision"

 

They made a legal and sensible business decision.. to avoid massive requests for refunds. They communicated it exactly how any other company would have.. so their PR practice is fine in that regard. They made a marketing mistake though.....They should NOT have given players outside the CC grant window ANYTHING. Why? Because the general audience is incapable of understanding what the term "appreciation" means. To an MMO gamer.. the term means whatever they want it to mean. Further.. MMO gamers are very petty and self-involved in a lot of cases... "hey! if Billy gets a candybar.. I Bob want the same candybar... yet Joe will contradict that and say hey if Billy gets a candybar.. I should get two because I am more special then Billy. Marketing should know this and know better IMO.

 

They probably could have found a better way to word that - the truth, even - than what they did, which was, "Hey! We appreciate people who bought this thing 29 days ago a far sight more than we appreciate anyone who bought it 31 days ago or longer!"

 

That's how a lot of players saw the message. I'm not making any value judgements about whether or not they should have seen it that way, but they did. I could have predicted it, you could have predicted it, and any PR person worth his consulting fee or salary should have been able to predict it and change the message.

 

Pure PR / message failure.

[RandoTheCommando]

There are not PR issues per se. They are issues for some players. There is no pleasing all players.. regardless of how perfect your PR machine might be.

 

 

There are clearly Public Relations issues at hand with this company. I teach Communication for a living, and it is apparent that not only does EA/Bioware not understand its market audience, but even when they are rewarding their player base, they do so in a manner that ends up insulting many.

 

While I agree that there is an abundance of whiners and "entitle-ists" in the latest generation of online gamers, and that many of the recent SWTOR infernos (dye prices, RotHC give-away and the rewards) are mostly non-issues, it is the manner in which EA/Bioware continually goes about implementing and communicating (or lack thereof) these decisions that exacerbates what could otherwise be a small issue into an exodus of discontinued subscriptions.

 

I have been playing MMOs since their dawning days and have been playing SWTOR since beta, including Early Access, and I have never seen a gaming company drop the ball so many times in communicating with its gaming base of players.

 

How difficult would it have been for EA/Bioware to explain to its player base WHY they rewarded the purchasers of RoftHC in the manner that they did? Why must players read through 82 pages of angry forum posts and player rebuttals to glean any logic to the decisions this company makes? If recent purchasers of RotHC received 1050 Bonus Cartel Coins as a "refund" to ensure proper legal practice or even to assuage a paranoid legal team, then EA/Bioware should have stated exactly that -- instead of declaring it was done "in appreciation" for players' recent purchase. This likely would have prevented the current blow-up from the earlier purchasers who felt insulted that the were given only a title or no "reward" at all. At the very least, it would have remedied most of the anger and disdain.

 

These decisions and reasons should be communicated, and it should come from EA/Bioware's own mouth. Instead EA/Bioware continues to accelerate the erosion of a damaged relationship with the very people who keep the game alive and running -- we, the paying subscribers.

 

A gifted communicator understands tact, diplomacy, empathy, clarity, and transparency. EA/Bioware is lacking in all of these facets, sadly. No amount of spin or subterfuge can belie this. This is my professional viewpoint -- one that is shared by many in this community, and certainly shared by former players who have cancelled their subscriptions in disgust.

 

tl;dr Too bad! Stop being lazy and start reading.

[Selenial]

Sooooo... basically you're saying that only the Hater's opinions can be real or valid and any opinions to the contrary must be bought and paid for?

 

I've often wondered if I would look good wearing a tin-foil hat... Hmm.

 

Oh for gods sake.

 

If Bioware turned round and called us a bunch of A-holes tomorrow, you know there'd be people defending them.

[stockmks]

LOL. So you are saying if they coat the message in the right chocolate sweet shell.. players would be OK? Um.. no.

 

OK. I'll restate my earlier comment, in a slightly different way: The issues are player issues. MMOs ALWAYS have players with issues who think they are being treated unfairly by the company and demand better "treatment".

 

Absolutely. That's the whole point. The chocolate shell doesn't just have to be words.. its about the whole package and that's what those people are paid to determine (and miserably fail at).

 

I'd disagree with player issues. Personally, im avoiding being scientific about it.. but please believe me when i say that i came to play tor the mmo, the intent certainly wasn't to hate bioware and am using the mmo as a vehicle to do so.

 

Just by being around for the experiences.. bioware business have painted themselves as slimy ****'s. They've firmly achieved that. As you say, the game is the game, but if you can't exactly escape the bioware business side when playing it.. its not completely free.